Post-Game Talk: Puck In Da Net: Habs, Fleury win in bizarre 6-5 OT/SO game

[Grant McCagg]

Or they do it because of goaltending...

I see... so "where was Mr Price last night" now becomes - our goaltending sucks.

Dude, we got lucky with a penalty and won ANOTHER game we shouldn't have. This is not good coaching. This is luck.


Dumb luck. Exactly. It sure as **** wasn't because of the coaching...

Double shifting Murray in OT. WTF is this idiot thinking?

Yeah really - Habs' best defenceman the last ten games...why not put Turnover/bad penalty king PK out there so we can lose? It's all about keeping our young players happy. They don't want to win..just like demented fan they they only want ice time.

If you asked Chucky - which would you prefer - 15 minutes per games and 13th place or 12 minutes per game and 3rd place - he would say give me the ice time...who gives a crap about winning. The Habs are ruining him for sure...he must really hate losing and figure he's entitled as a 19-20-year-old to the most ice time on the team.

 

[Andy]

Sometimes I wonder about the hockey IQ of some fans on this board. Murray is a lousy skater. YES. YES. YES. But he is a good d-man in every other defensive category. Did you watch the ******* game last night?

Yes, I did. Fleury let in 4 bad goals and the Habs lucked out on a terrible penalty call. Budaj let in two very awful goals, but was okay the rest of the way. The habs give up the neutral zone like it's nobodies business, the same happened against the Red Wings. They had an excellent first period possession wise, but they didn't generate many scoring chances.

The PP clicked, but the strategy of playing Markov and Subban for the entire two minutes cost the Habs a goal because Subban was gassed....a coaching mistake, which the team then punished the player for.

Funny enough, the Habs hadn't played a second D pairing on the PP until that incident happened. Then MT stopped using Markov-Subban duo for the entire 2 minutes.

The Habs didn't deserve to win, like they didn't deserve to win against the Red Wings. This issue is much bigger than the last two games, but people overlook it by pointing to the record, which begs the following question: Have you been following the ****ing season?

 

[Andy]

If you asked Chucky - which would you prefer - 15 minutes per games and 13th place or 12 minutes per game and 3rd place -.

How would giving Chucky 3 extra minutes lead to a 13th place finish? Cmon Grant.

I don't even care about the minutes. The team has too many players underachieving and is lucking out most nights. That's not a recipe for long-term success.

The wins the team does get are not satisfying when there is a huge and obvious underlying issue ready to explode. I never want my team to lose, but the Habs have more talent than people give them credit for and that talent is underachieving.

 

[sandysan]

Subban's mistake was ridiculous and his effort getting back to redeem himself was pathetic. Totally deserved benching.

Yeah I am a big fan of Subban but he shouldnt have seen the ice after that, there has to be some accountability.

Coughing up the puck at the offensive blue line by not getting it in deep on a long-ass shift, drawing a hooking penalty on sutter ( I didnt see the arm go up in real time but it did) and then pretty much giving up on the backcheck that's three strikes in 15 seconds.

He can play soooooo much better, I'm not sure why he's in a funk its not jet lag because I didnt think he was playing great before leaving for sochi.

 

[Andy]

Oh, I just wanted to clarify, Subban's turnover was brutal. I still wouldn't have benched him though, at some point the team needs to accept that in the case of a talented D like this, you need to take the good with the bad. He's been in the league for 5 years now, he's not a rookie.

 

[habitue*]

Oh, I just wanted to clarify, Subban's turnover was brutal. I still wouldn't have benched him though, at some point the team needs to accept that in the case of a talented D like this, you need to take the good with the bad. He's been in the league for 5 years now, he's not a rookie.

Subban is hard headed.


How many times did Therrien and the coaching staff told him to play safer depending of the game time and situation ? I am surd they are repeating that to him almost every day.

At some point, the guy has to understand and solve the problem.


The very best d-men in the NHL history learned from their mistakes and listen to their coaches.

 

[Habs Icing]

Yes, I did. Fleury let in 4 bad goals and the Habs lucked out on a terrible penalty call. Budaj let in two very awful goals, but was okay the rest of the way. The habs give up the neutral zone like it's nobodies business, the same happened against the Red Wings. They had an excellent first period possession wise, but they didn't generate many scoring chances.

The PP clicked, but the strategy of playing Markov and Subban for the entire two minutes cost the Habs a goal because Subban was gassed....a coaching mistake, which the team then punished the player for.

Funny enough, the Habs hadn't played a second D pairing on the PP until that incident happened. Then MT stopped using Markov-Subban duo for the entire 2 minutes.

The Habs didn't deserve to win, like they didn't deserve to win against the Red Wings. This issue is much bigger than the last two games, but people overlook it by pointing to the record, which begs the following question: Have you been following the ****ing season?

I see you like to jump from subject to subject. Let's try to stay on one topic at a time.

You mentioned that it was stupid that Therrien double shifted Murray. If you've been watching the games objectively, you would have seen that the last month or so he has been the best defensive d-man on the team. I'd say his game came into form about the time he had his little scrap with Buffalo's Scott.

I have nothing but praise for Murray. If his skating was just average this guy would be a top three d-man. He is a beast along the boards and in the slot.

 

[RealityBytes]

Toronto has 22 losses, they regularly get outplayed and outshot, luck out most of their wins. They usually come crashing down because you can't always get the bounces.

Don't get hung up on most shots equals best play.

After 60 games, Toronto has the second most goals for in the conference even though they have the lowest shots for in the conference. Toronto gets outshot but they have shown they can score goals and lots of them and that is what counts towards a win.

On the other hand, the Habs don't score goals and win by letting in few goals. It's the situation in reverse. Montreal gets outshot and outplayed as well and wins.

Both teams are just as fragile and just as "lucky" as you say. The crashing down you say is coming for Toronto could happen just as easily with the Habs if the bounces don't go right and a few more opposition goals go in.

As an added point, a few years back when Toronto was at the bottom of the heap, they would regularly outshoot their opponents but lose the game. Now they are the reverse so go figure. It's not all that cut and dried.

 

[hototogisu]

Yeesh, we picked up 3 out of 4 points in back-to-back games against Detroit and Pittsburgh after a long break without our starting goalie and this board is still bordering on unreadable. Everybody's equipped with their agendas for their favorite players and conspiracy theories against Therrien. It's embarrassing.

 

[Andy]

Subban is hard headed.


How many times did Therrien and the coaching staff told him to play safer depending of the game time and situation ? I am surd they are repeating that to him almost every day.

At some point, the guy has to understand and solve the problem.


The very best d-men in the NHL history learned from their mistakes and listen to their coaches.

Dude, Karlsson makes errors every game. So does Duncan Keith. If Habs coaching staff and Management want a mistake free defender, then they should just trade Subban. Players like his calibre who try to change the flow of the game using talent will make mistakes.

I remember a couple of years back where Crosby made a brutal pass in OT than Plekanec picked off and scored the game winner. No player is perfect, even the most talented. In fact, I think the most talented make the most mistakes because they are depended on so much to get the game flowing, they always have the puck, they are bound to make mistakes.

If the coaching staff can't live with it, than they should stop trying to mold PK into a player he is not. It's affecting every other aspect of his game.

 

[Andy]

You mentioned that it was stupid that Therrien double shifted Murray.t.

No I did not. Go back and read.

 

[le_sean]

Dude, Karlsson makes errors every game. So does Duncan Keith. If Habs coaching staff and Management want a mistake free defender, then they should just trade Subban. Players like his calibre who try to change the flow of the game using talent will make mistakes.

I remember a couple of years back where Crosby made a brutal pass in OT than Plekanec picked off and scored the game winner. No player is perfect, even the most talented. In fact, I think the most talented make the most mistakes because they are depended on so much to get the game flowing, they always have the puck, they are bound to make mistakes.

If the coaching staff can't live with it, than they should stop trying to mold PK into a player he is not. It's affecting every other aspect of his game.

It's one thing to make a mistake, like blown coverage. But it's a completely other thing to be the sole reason a goal against was scored, with a completely unnecessary play, and at a pivotal point of the game. If Fleury wasn't such a ****** goalie, that would have been a two point mistake.

These are also things PK wasn't doing at the beginning of the year. He's far more intelligent than that.

Of course he should be forgiven and given an opportunity to redeem himself, but he deserved to sit after that play. I have no problem with how MT handled it.

 

[Kriss E]

What???? You've never seen me be critical of the team? Why do people have to resort to fabrications to get their points across on here sometimes?

I've criticized Therrien plenty...but it's fans like you that are the joke...criticizing blindly over and over and over even when the team's winning because said player got less ice time than another. It's a broken ****ing record on here.

You don't look at the results..you search frantically for negatives because you are a naturally negative person .

Look at the bloody record!!!! why is everybody so displeased with this team?

Therrien makes lots of mistakes..every coach in the league make errors...but he's winning. The decisions he is making are resulting in wins.

You seriously think this team is better than its record? You really are blind.

Does it ever occur to all of you experts that the people running this team might just know more than you about hockey? Apparently that is impossible - there are hundreds of people on here every night who truly think they are better hockey men than the ones in charge.

That's the biggest joke of all.

You have some serious anger management issues.

Did I call YOU a blind fan??
You said what happened to simply cheering for the team you liked. To which I replied a general ''you can that way if you want''. If you don't want to, you can be another type of fan. In no way was it directed at you. My bad if you misunderstood but you need to drop your defenses and always respond to people with so much anger. Seriously dude, not sure what's going on in your personal life but you need to chill out a bit.

Last year, I had no issues crediting Therrien. Some things I disagreed with, but I gave him props. Why? Because the team was actually playing well. There was good production from all three top lines, Markov was back to being a top PP QB and PK had a Norris season, there was much less favoritism. Two rookies stormed out of the gate and did very well.
This year, it's the opposite. The guy is making one mistake after another but the players are bailing him out.
Every player in the top 9 is producing less than last year, we are a very low scoring team at ES, our scoring ratio isn't even good, and we allow a lot of shots. We are 12th on the PP and 5th on the PK. What does this tell you? Well to me, it's that we are a team that heavily relies on Special teams and their goalies. I don't think a coach deserves credit when his special teams and goalies are what's making the team get by.
I also can't believe that we've overachieved so much last year and the way our players are performing is actually their true selves. Maybe that's me being naive, but yes, I believe Plekanec can be more than a 40pt player, likewise for Gallagher and Galchenyuk. I think MaxPac can finish in the 60-70pt mark instead of 50. I think PK can get around 50-55 too. I think Eller can pot more than 30pts. And the list goes on.
Where they are in the standings can be influenced by a lot of outside things. We know the East is very weak. Heck, the Leafs are 2pts behind us and everybody agrees they're pretty bad. You can think that we are just about as bad as them, which would explain you feeling we're overachieving, but I don't. Not after last season.
Such a drastic change in our game compared to last year, however our position in the standings remains high thanks to special teams and goalies. I'm not going to give him much credit this year.

Is it Therrien's fault my foot is hurting? Of course it is.

 

[habitue*]

Yeesh, we picked up 3 out of 4 points in back-to-back games against Detroit and Pittsburgh after a long break without our starting goalie and this board is still bordering on unreadable. Everybody's equipped with their agendas for their favorite players and conspiracy theories against Therrien. It's embarrassing.

Yeah.

It's not a Habs fansboard.

It's a "insert the player name here" fans board. If their guy is having lots of ice time and produce, the rest -win or lose- doesn't matter at all.


Very depressing.

 

[Habs Icing]

No I did not. Go back and read.

You're right. It was Lafleur's Guy. But you responded that winning because of double shifting Murray puts us in Leaf territory.......whatever that means.

 

[Kriss E]

Ha ha ha .blind fan? Good one.people who support unconditionally are REAL fans.those who flip flop all over the place are poseurs.

Unconditional means you're biased. Being biased removes any possibility of making a fair and constructive analysis.

 

[sventington]

what a ridiculous fanbase we have. We choose to be fans, we choose to spend money on the team, and in the end they are winning. The sky isn't falling. Last night we could have won handily were it not for Budaj having a bad game. Relax.

 

[sandysan]

Oh, I just wanted to clarify, Subban's turnover was brutal. I still wouldn't have benched him though, at some point the team needs to accept that in the case of a talented D like this, you need to take the good with the bad. He's been in the league for 5 years now, he's not a rookie.

I dont expect him to be perfect, but you cant redeem yourself of making mistakes by making two more in rapid succession.

If he has a step on you at the blue going the other way, trip him. Take the two. If you half-ass hook him and he gets free get on your freaking horse and chase him. dont take two stides then cut to the bench.

A lot of people were outraged when people offered the reason for his lack of participation was because he was too risky for TC and made bad decisions. His two first games back from sochi, he could not have done anything to better re-inforce this notion.

Some coaches can live with the risk, I dont think that Karlsson is fantastic defensively but the sens are okay with this. Our coach is not and has clearly told subban what the expectations are. if he keeps ignoring them, he should sit.

He is capable of so much more, if hes in a funk Ill ride it out, but if he keeps making the same types of mistakes something has to be done.

 

[Kriss E]

Yeesh, we picked up 3 out of 4 points in back-to-back games against Detroit and Pittsburgh after a long break without our starting goalie and this board is still bordering on unreadable. Everybody's equipped with their agendas for their favorite players and conspiracy theories against Therrien. It's embarrassing.

So if we had lost yesterday, it would have been okay?
That's exactly what's wrong with this board. People changing opinions based on one or a couple of games.
Does getting 3pts out of 4 means Therrien is great and we're playing some great hockey? Why can't people still bring out the fact Therrien is coaching like a moron?
We're not talking about bipolar fans flip flopping their opinions around.
Most of the people criticizing Therrien this year also had no problem giving props to him last year. So did they suddenly develop this nasty agenda against Therrien despite us still being atop the conference?..Or do they actually have a point in saying the team isn't really playing well or better?
Or should they just not express their opinion on a discussion board because hey, team's getting points..The team isn't playing well. We were owned by Detroit, had a better game yesterday vs Pittsburgh but still, I wouldn't call it a good performance. And yet, we're supposed to pretend all is good because we earned 3pts and say the coach did good??..What kind of reasoning is that??..

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Yeah really - Habs' best defenceman the last ten games...why not put Turnover/bad penalty king PK out there so we can lose? It's all about keeping our young players happy. They don't want to win..just like demented fan they they only want ice time.

So you think we have a better chance winning with Murray out there over PK? Dude, tell me you are kidding.

I don't give a **** what kind of a mistake Subban made... for every mistake he makes Murray makes three. And Murray in OT makes absolutely no sense at all.

And for the talk of "teaching PK" by benching him from folks out here... wtf is he teaching him? Has PK gotten better or worse? Has Subban been progressing? No. But our coach keeps on benching him. At what point does he realize that maybe some other method might work better?

If you asked Chucky - which would you prefer - 15 minutes per games and 13th place or 12 minutes per game and 3rd place - he would say give me the ice time...who gives a crap about winning. The Habs are ruining him for sure...he must really hate losing and figure he's entitled as a 19-20-year-old to the most ice time on the team.

So what?

What does that have to do with anything here? I'm sure if you offered Sid Crosby a cup ring to sit out game 7 so that he'd be guaranteed a cup for the Penguins, he'd take it. Your argument is a non-starter.

What do you think MT has done well? Nevermind our record. What do you think he should be credited for based on the way we've played?

All I've heard from you is talk of us in the standings.

I don't see how you can credit the coach for this when we're outplayed so badly so often.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Yeesh, we picked up 3 out of 4 points in back-to-back games against Detroit and Pittsburgh after a long break without our starting goalie and this board is still bordering on unreadable. Everybody's equipped with their agendas for their favorite players and conspiracy theories against Therrien. It's embarrassing.

What's embarrassing is people looking at the record and crediting the coach for it. Did we deserve to win against the Wings or Pens? No.

We are winning despite the coach.

 

[Kriss E]

I dont expect him to be perfect, but you cant redeem yourself of making mistakes by making two more in rapid succession.

If he has a step on you at the blue going the other way, trip him. Take the two. If you half-ass hook him and he gets free get on your freaking horse and chase him. dont take two stides then cut to the bench.

A lot of people were outraged when people offered the reason for his lack of participation was because he was too risky for TC and made bad decisions. His two first games back from sochi, he could not have done anything to better re-inforce this notion.

Some coaches can live with the risk, I dont think that Karlsson is fantastic defensively but the sens are okay with this. Our coach is not and has clearly told subban what the expectations are. if he keeps ignoring them, he should sit.

He is capable of so much more, if hes in a funk Ill ride it out, but if he keeps making the same types of mistakes something has to be done.

How many times would you say PK coughed up the puck at the blue line on the PP leading to a breakaway goal this year? Or heck, just a breakaway (no goal). How many?

 

[sventington]

I was born and raised in Ontario and I grew to loathe Leafs fans because I felt they were obnoxious, but it feels they are quickly becoming overshadowed...

 

[hototogisu]

What's embarrassing is people looking at the record and crediting the coach for it. Did we deserve to win against the Wings or Pens? No.

We are winning despite the coach.

As we do every year whenever we win, and will continue to do every year, magically, miraculously, no matter who's behind the bench, because every year this board is leading the charge to have whoever's back there in the suit fired due to his obvious, blatant, incompetence. Sorry if I act like I've seen this movie before.

 

[hototogisu]

So if we had lost yesterday, it would have been okay?
That's exactly what's wrong with this board. People changing opinions based on one or a couple of games.
Does getting 3pts out of 4 means Therrien is great and we're playing some great hockey? Why can't people still bring out the fact Therrien is coaching like a moron?
We're not talking about bipolar fans flip flopping their opinions around.
Most of the people criticizing Therrien this year also had no problem giving props to him last year. So did they suddenly develop this nasty agenda against Therrien despite us still being atop the conference?..Or do they actually have a point in saying the team isn't really playing well or better?
Or should they just not express their opinion on a discussion board because hey, team's getting points..The team isn't playing well. We were owned by Detroit, had a better game yesterday vs Pittsburgh but still, I wouldn't call it a good performance. And yet, we're supposed to pretend all is good because we earned 3pts and say the coach did good??..What kind of reasoning is that??..

Or, another option, they could calm the hell down and acknowledge the situation is just as I presented it in my previous post.