Puck Drop Preview: 2014-15 Pittsburgh Penguins

[Ogrezilla]

Basically. Although after hearing about how he has no feeling in his knee and will be wearing knee-braces on both his knees, it's really hard for me to believe that he'll be even passable in the top-six at this point.

He's always worn 1 knee brace, and the feeling in the knee cap doesn't really mean anything. He can feel pressure on the knee/leg, he can't feel something actually touching the knee-cap.

I mean there is a good chance he's lost a step or two, but the numbness doesn't really mean much.

 

[penguins2946*]

Are you trying to argue that KCD is a good playoff line? It's not even the playoffs, it's any time we play a strong defensive team. The line doesn't work, it doesn't have the components it needs to be a successful line against good teams.

No, but it's no worse than any other option we have. There isn't a large sample size at all to say KCD doesn't work. I don't want to test it out to see if it is bad, but let's not act like it has failed numerous times.

 

[Waffle Fries]

He's always worn 1 knee brace, and the feeling in the knee cap doesn't really mean anything. He can feel pressure on the knee/leg, he can't feel something actually touching the knee-cap.

I mean there is a good chance he's lost a step or two, but the numbness doesn't really mean much.

My point was if the surgery has affected him so heavily in non-play related ways, then I find it hard to believe that it's not going to affect him on the ice.

No, but it's no worse than any other option we have. There isn't a large sample size at all to say KCD doesn't work. I don't want to test it out to see if it is bad, but let's not act like it has failed numerous times.

I think there's been more than enough evidence KCD doesn't work. It's amazing to me that someone would suggest otherwise.

How do you know it's no worse than any other option we have when the other options haven't even been tested?

 

[Speaking Moistly]

Are you trying to argue that KCD is a good playoff line? It's not even the playoffs, it's any time we play a strong defensive team. The line doesn't work, it doesn't have the components it needs to be a successful line against good teams.

Dupuis was hard to watch at times last year. To the point that Dan demoted him. Now he's another year older and just had a major knee surgery.

Yeah, Dupuis looked like **** last season and then destroyed his knee, Bylsma demoted him. Bylsma. To the 2nd line, but still.

I don't think he's going to really find his way back into the top 6 given his age, injury and previous skill set. He hasn't worked with Malkin in the past and putting that on the 1st line would be brutal, they'll try but it will be bad. Seeing his performance compared to his salary is probably going to blow, I'll be impressed if he's a good 3rd liner. Bennett, Downie and Spaling are all probably more likely in the top 6 unless B's and D's recoveries have gone horribly wrong. Megna and Kapanen as possibilities for the optimists, even.

KCD didn't work when the going got remotely tough. I have no desire to give it another chance because this time things might be different, it's had multiple chances.

 

[Shady Machine]

The problem here is even if KCD doesn't happen, it doesn't mean much. If people think Downie is an answer to helping Sid from getting shut down against top defensive teams, their expectations are far too high. A healthy Downie and a pre-surgery Dupuis are both at best 3rd wheel top 6ers. I'd like to see Downie tried just for a different dynamic, but I think people are going overboard on their expectations. We need another legit top 6 winger, regardless of who is slotted in with Sid or Geno to start the year.

 

[penguins2946*]

My point was if the surgery has affected him so heavily in non-play related ways, then I find it hard to believe that it's not going to affect him on the ice.



I think there's been more than enough evidence KCD doesn't work. It's amazing to me that someone would suggest otherwise.

How do you know it's no worse than any other option we have when the other options haven't even been tested?

You talk about Dupuis being demoted while completely ignoring that Downie was demoted last year for being horrendous. In reality, neither are good options, and I feel like Dupuis there is slightly less bad than Downie there. Downie will be the playmaker on the 3rd line, which I feel like is a bigger need than a playmaker on Sid's line. Also, we would hope that Spaling-Sutter-Downie will be our 3rd line for when we start the playoffs, so we might as well keep them together so they can be clicking at all cylinders once the playoffs start.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

The problem here is even if KCD doesn't happen, it doesn't mean much. If people think Downie is an answer to helping Sid from getting shut down against top defensive teams, their expectations are far too high. A healthy Downie and a pre-surgery Dupuis are both at best 3rd wheel top 6ers. I'd like to see Downie tried just for a different dynamic, but I think people are going overboard on their expectations. We need another legit top 6 winger, regardless of who is slotted in with Sid or Geno to start the year.

Of course they need another top 6 winger, they're the Pittsburgh Penguins.

I just think that Dupuis will be a worse fit in the top 6 than the others. I'm really dreading that knee.

 

[Shady Machine]

Of course they need another top 6 winger, they're the Pittsburgh Penguins.

I just think that Dupuis will be a worse fit in the top 6 than the others. I'm really dreading that knee.

I'm not doubting that. I just think people are going to be disappointed if they think Downie is going to solidify the top line with Sid. The fit may be better, who knows, but Downie is not a better player than Dupuis. It seems like people think he is. Possibly at this stage of their careers, but not in the past when Dupuis was with Sid getting shutdown in the playoffs.

 

[AjaxTelamon]

You talk about Dupuis being demoted while completely ignoring that Downie was demoted last year for being horrendous. In reality, neither are good options, and I feel like Dupuis there is slightly less bad than Downie there. Downie will be the playmaker on the 3rd line, which I feel like is a bigger need than a playmaker on Sid's line. Also, we would hope that Spaling-Sutter-Downie will be our 3rd line for when we start the playoffs, so we might as well keep them together so they can be clicking at all cylinders once the playoffs start.

Downie was demoted due to his injuries impairing his play. Not because he's not a good player. If he remains healthy this year, he'll be a good sight better than Dupuis. But that is a big if.

The hot hand wingers are going to get those top 6 spots, and that's just fine. MJ has been pretty clear that Kunitz and Horns are the only locks as top 6 wings.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

I'm not doubting that. I just think people are going to be disappointed if they think Downie is going to solidify the top line with Sid. The fit may be better, who knows, but Downie is not a better player than Dupuis. It seems like people think he is. Possibly at this stage of their careers, but not in the past when Dupuis was with Sid getting shutdown in the playoffs.

Have people been saying Downie is the answer, though? Actually, there probably are...

He's different than Dupuis, I'll take different at this point. But then aside from the miracle of one of their winger prospects suddenly being the answer (or Spaling ), I don't think they'll really be able to do anything about it. Maybe a band-aid solution, but that's it and it's unappealing.

 

[cygnus47]

Kunitz - Crosby - Bennett
Downie - Malkin - Hornqvist

Sid deserves to have 2 useful wingers for once.

 

[The Old Master]

Kunitz - Crosby - Bennett
Downie - Malkin - Hornqvist

Sid deserves to have 2 useful wingers for once.

and geno doesn't?

 

[Shady Machine]

Have people been saying Downie is the answer, though? Actually, there probably are...

He's different than Dupuis, I'll take different at this point. But then aside from the miracle of one of their winger prospects suddenly being the answer (or Spaling ), I don't think they'll really be able to do anything about it. Maybe a band-aid solution, but that's it and it's unappealing.

I haven't seen a ton say he is the answer, but people seem to be a tad too gleeful with KCD being done because we have Downie. To me, all it means is that Dupuis got worse and Downie is a better player now, not better than Dupuis was when we were all *****ing about that line. So I see it as about the same in terms of quality as KCD was when we scored 2 goals in 4 games against Boston.

Maybe Downie provides a different dynamic and his playmaking skills help open up more space for Sid than Duper could. That's my hope, but we need a serious upgrade before the playoffs, regardless of which one of Duper or Downie play with Sid.

 

[ILikeTurtles]

Nearly 3 full pages and not one person commented on the author typing 'Depres' rather than 'Despres'. That should limit is credibility more than putting Dupuis on a line with Sid.

 

[Fedex26]

I kind of feel that Bennett needs to be with Geno, Geno likes to play that creative style of give and go's and dropping the puck back to the winger behind him. If you give him Dupuis and Hornqvist, neither of which are particularly good with the puck, its going to limit his creativity and probably frustrate him to no end. Guess we'll see how it plays out in camp.

 

[member 51464]

Is Spaling special or remarkable in any way? Or is he just new?

 

[Ogrezilla]

Is Spaling special or remarkable in any way? Or is he just new?

From what I've read, he goes to the net and works the boards well. That is something we have been missing.

 

[AjaxTelamon]

From what I've read, he goes to the net and works the boards well. That is something we have been missing.

He does a bit of everything, nothing especially remarkable, but he's an all-around competent player. He got time on the Preds PP, though not necessarily due to his astounding skills, but he did a decent job as a net front presence for them. I've seen him play competently along the boards when I've seen the Preds play, but Preds fans complain that he's not particularly effective there, so we'll see. He doesn't hand grenade the puck like Dupuis or Glass, he can carry the puck and make a pass. He does have a knack for clutch goals.

To us he'll seem like a hockey genius after watching Tanner Glass, Chuck Kobesew and Taylor Pyatt out there playing with Sutter last year. If Dupuis isn't fully back, I wouldn't be surprised to see Spaling get some time in the top 6.

 

[#66]

The problem here is even if KCD doesn't happen, it doesn't mean much. If people think Downie is an answer to helping Sid from getting shut down against top defensive teams, their expectations are far too high. A healthy Downie and a pre-surgery Dupuis are both at best 3rd wheel top 6ers. I'd like to see Downie tried just for a different dynamic, but I think people are going overboard on their expectations. We need another legit top 6 winger, regardless of who is slotted in with Sid or Geno to start the year.

For me the kicker is Bennett. Can he stay healthy to be the player with skill and poise next to Sid? Can he be a 50 to 60 point player? Will he get a top line role?

I'm really interested in seeing who Malkin plays with. I really would like to finally see him with a well rounded line. Like a Fedetanko or Talbot type on one side and a Neal or Jokinen type on the other.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

Is Spaling special or remarkable in any way? Or is he just new?

From what I've watched, he goes to the net and works the boards well. That is something we have been missing.

 

[HandshakeLine]

He does a bit of everything, nothing especially remarkable, but he's an all-around competent player. He got time on the Preds PP, though not necessarily due to his astounding skills, but he did a decent job as a net front presence for them. I've seen him play competently along the boards when I've seen the Preds play, but Preds fans complain that he's not particularly effective there, so we'll see. He doesn't hand grenade the puck like Dupuis or Glass, he can carry the puck and make a pass. He does have a knack for clutch goals.

To us he'll seem like a hockey genius after watching Tanner Glass, Chuck Kobesew and Taylor Pyatt out there playing with Sutter last year. If Dupuis isn't fully back, I wouldn't be surprised to see Spaling get some time in the top 6.

Which is almost exactly what people were saying about Kunitz before the trade, so I wouldn't write Spaling off just yet. Those kinds of players work well in our top 6, not as the only answer, certainly.

I have no real dog in the fight, or insight on Spaling, but just throwing that out there.

Also, is Dupuis even cleared for contact yet? Or are we just assuming he'll be back on time for lack of any contrary information? I'm 7 hours ahead and out of the loop here.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Which is almost exactly what people were saying about Kunitz before the trade, so I wouldn't write Spaling off just yet. Those kinds of players work well in our top 6, not as the only answer, certainly.

I have no real dog in the fight, or insight on Spaling, but just throwing that out there.

Also, is Dupuis even cleared for contact yet? Or are we just assuming he'll be back on time for lack of any contrary information? I'm 7 hours ahead and out of the loop here.

Except kunitz was already a successful 50 point player wiyh a 60 point season under his belt who had been in the top 6 of a cup winning team before the trade. Kunitz didn't become a top 6 player here. He had been one for a while already.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

Except kunitz was already a successful 50 point player who had been in the top 6 of a cup winning team before the trade. Kunitz didn't become a top 6 player here. He had been one for a while already.

I guess, for the sake of it, the counter argument would be that Spaling put up 32 points in 71 games in Nashville last season with the scoring being what it was. Spaling is only 25 (26 soon?), around the age Kunitz started producing at.

I don't think he'll be a Kunitz, though, he's not a top 6 winger. Maybe a stopgap puck retriever who goes to the net and is a LHS because of the winger situation. If he actually did it would be shocking.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Kunitz was also a big time scorer in NCAA. I'm not saying Spaling couldn't competently fill in on the scoring lines here and there. But I think if people are expecting him to perform even close to those standards then they will be disappointed.

He's much closer to, like... Tyler Kennedy than Chris Kunitz.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I guess, for the sake of it, the counter argument would be that Spaling put up 32 points in 71 games in Nashville last season with the scoring being what it was. Spaling is only 25 (26 soon?), around the age Kunitz started producing at.

I don't think he'll be a Kunitz, though, he's not a top 6 winger. Maybe a stopgap puck retriever who goes to the net and is a LHS because of the winger situation. If he actually did it would be shocking.

My point is that when we traded for Kunitz, nobody ever thought he was going to be a 3rd liner. Not for one second. He was brought in as a top 6 wing to play in our top 6.

I'm not saying Spaling can't be effective. I'm not even saying its impossible that he could greatly improve and become a legit top 6 player, though I do think its unlikely. What I'm saying is that the circumstances surrounding him are nothing like those surrounding the Kunitz acquisition.

The description Handshake is using to make the comparison, for reference.

He does a bit of everything, nothing especially remarkable, but he's an all-around competent player. He got time on the Preds PP, though not necessarily due to his astounding skills, but he did a decent job as a net front presence for them.

This does describe both. The key word here is competent though. Competent for Kunitz refers to him being a competent top 6 wing. Competent for Spaling refers to him being a competent bottom 6 wing. Its an important qualifying difference, even if they have nearly identical qualitative descriptions.