Post-Game Talk: PS #4 - 10/03/16 | RANGERS @ flyers | 7:00 PM - MSG

[Boruto]

I think he's better than 3rd pairing and people are lying if they thought he would be any better than a #6 goon, which he already is.

He has that potential if he gets regular ice time. hard to call him a 2nd pairing dman right now when he's yet to play the minutes of a 6th.

 

[Revel]

am i the only person thoroughly impressed with the game Holden played tonight?

just me? ok...nm.

Inferno, replying to this again because I watched the game a second time and paid Holden more attention.

He was indeed impressive. Great board work. Calm demeanor with the puck (i.e. doesn't make rash attempted clears like Girardi). No long outlets...but makes short, high percentage passes within the D-zone...basically making sure the Rangers retain control and can prepare for a move down-ice. And I'll tell ya, the first time I replied to your post I had said he was bad on the PP. He was not bad on the PP. Showed crisp passing and almost scored on a pinch towards the end of the 2nd period on the PP. On that entire PP at the end of the 2nd period, I thought he looked absolutely fine. I'm not saying he should play point on our PP, but he did nothing wrong.

If tonight was an indication of what we get with Holden, I'm thrilled to have him as a 3rd pairing D-man and think he would also be a serviceable #4. Not a dynamo offensively or anything, but fundamentally very sound. A pretty cool customer.

Of course, now that I've said this, he'll be garbage all year like his advanced stats suggest. His advanced stats with Colorado the last 2 years were god awful. Perhaps that was because he was playing over his head on first pairing. I dunno.

 

[Machinehead]

He has that potential if he gets regular ice time. hard to call him a 2nd pairing dman right now when he's yet to play the minutes of a 6th.

Minutes don't mean anything with the Creedmoor patient we have behind the bench.

 

[Boruto]

Inferno, replying to this again because I watched the game a second time and paid Holden more attention.

He was indeed impressive. Great board work. Calm demeanor with the puck (i.e. doesn't make rash attempted clears like Girardi). No long outlets...but makes short, high percentage passes within the D-zone...basically making sure the Rangers retain control and can prepare for a move down-ice. And I'll tell ya, the first time I replied to your post I had said he was bad on the PP. He was not bad on the PP. Showed crisp passing and almost scored on a pinch towards the end of the 2nd period on the PP. On that entire PP at the end of the 2nd period, I thought he looked absolutely fine. I'm not saying he should play point on our PP, but he did nothing wrong.

If tonight was an indication of what we get with Holden, I'm thrilled to have him as a 3rd pairing D-man and think he would also be a serviceable #4. Not a dynamo offensively or anything, but fundamentally very sound. A pretty cool customer.

Of course, now that I've said this, he'll be garbage all year like his advanced stats suggest. His advanced stats with Colorado the last 2 years were god awful. Perhaps that was because he was playing over his head on first pairing. I dunno.

I watch Avs games whenever I can since they're my West team and I'm on the west coast so it's really confusing me these past few games watching Holden. I haven't bad mouthed him because he was god awful in Colorado night in and night out. A lot of defensive lapses, poor decision and timing, and just getting beat with foot speed when caught and getting turned around. These few games though he's been dependable and quite honestly the stuff of a 3rd pairing D man. He's played the big minutes before and has the experience against the best players. Colorado doesn't exact has a good defensive system plus their entire defense is bad and he had competition that was way over his head. On our 3rd pairing though, he's been good with the quick puck movements and short passes like you said. We don't need EK65 on our third pairing. Just need a dman who can get the puck out of our zone without constantly just throwing it away especially if we have a decent forth line with Grabner to move the puck.

 

[Ola]

He did ok since he is only 19 - he will probably be cut, but promising for the future.

Definitely, I love this year's camp and what we have seen, and I don't want to proclaim someone being the biggest surprise or whatever, but still, Robin Kovac has obviously had a tremendous summer and this kid really loves the game.

Like he is 2-3, even 4, years younger than most young players we are used to see come into camp and make it past the first cut without playing lights out. Ryan Callahan didn't make the first cuts his first preseason in NY and he was what 21 y/o. The only reasonable expectation on Kovac going into this year's camp really should have been him just maybe doing something well in a scrimmage or something.

Sure you can debate the level of play and what not in pre-season. In these type of games Ryan Haggerty scored some fantastic goals etc. But I still think its very impressive that Kovac not only can get into these games and hold his own, he is playing comfortable creative hockey and is a factor with his positioning on the ice most of the time. The fact that he hasn't really put himself in the running for a spot in the NHL by challenging Vesey, Buch and co. say nothing for me. Hands down, if Kovac made this team out of camp that is by far -- AINEC -- the biggest camp surprise I would ever have witnessed following this team for over 25 years.

 

[ManUtdTobbe]

Thought Clendening did well for the first half of the game, how was the second half? (I went to bed)
He reads the play well, both on and off the puck.

 

[Ghost of jas]

I think he's better than 3rd pairing and people are lying if they thought he would be any better than a #6 goon, which he already is.

I fully agree, and my hope was always that he'd be a 2nd pairing D-man. He made a subtle play last night where the puck was behind the net, and due to his size, he was able to angle off a Flyer forward, minimizing the forecheck. Then he got the puck out of harm's way. There is no logical justification for Girardi getting more minutes than McIlrath this year.

 

[Boruto]

I fully agree, and my hope was always that he'd be a 2nd pairing D-man. He made a subtle play last night where the puck was behind the net, and due to his size, he was able to angle off a Flyer forward, minimizing the forecheck. Then he got the puck out of harm's way. There is no logical justification for Girardi getting more minutes than McIlrath this year.

Vigneault keeps talking about smart passes to get out of the zone and to go the other way. For some reason, Girardi's complete ineptitude in that department allows him to stay in the line up.

 

[kovazub94]

MCD-Klein
Staal-Clendening
Holden-McI
Skjei-G

 

[ManUtdTobbe]

MCD-Klein
Staal-Clendening
Holden-McI
Skjei-G

I agree with this, let Skjei start in Hartford and bring him up if he develops and looks ready.

 

[silverfish]

Pirri scored again, huh? Shocker.

 

[Lion Hound]

Drafting McIlrath was a bad move at the draft and it continues to be as he's trying to crack the top 6 in a barren defense 6 years after he was drafted in 2010. He's a good player for our lineup now but that was a pick way too high to be spent on a stay at home defenseman in that draft. It's not even the Tarasenko vs. McIlrath sidebar either. Saying y'all want to admit I was right that he was going to be a workable defenseman is like saying y'all want to admit I was right when I said we should get the Hawaiian pizza to balance out all the meat lovers and Italian sausage people. Kind of aggressive.

McIlrath is good for us in that 3rd pairing playing 2nd pairing minutes depending on how AV does it but c'mon, it's not as if he is now a top 4 defenseman. He grabbed Gudas and tried to fight him. I don't think that's ground for any kind of "called it, eat crow" statements.

I think most people are happy now that he's turned the corner from his injuries and seems to be on track to be an NHL defenseman and nothing more than that.

Rick Nash is here to drive offense. Do you want your best offensive forward fighting Radko Gudas? I think that's the complete opposite of what a player like Nash should be doing. Risking an injury and a broken finger in a preseason game. Nash has size and speed for offense, not for being a goon. It's awful nowadays people can't see past small stature in a skill player and harps on power forwards to be fighters.[/QUOTE]


I don't agree with this one bit.

As a veteran on this team, you need to have your teammates back. At the time, Nash was one of two players closest in proximity to the incident. This was a major boarding incident on the teams top prospect. You don't need to be a good to remotely show interest in the well being of one of your clubs top assets who was in what his 4th preseason game to date? Rick Nash isn't a goon. That's a given. He shouldn't initiate fights for the sake of sparking a team, changing momentum etc. But when one of your mates gets boarded by a player who has a history like that you better *** show some interest in his well being and at least pretend to get involved.

 

[silverfish]

Honestly, I'm perfectly fine with Nash not going after Gudas in preseason.

Nash goes after Gudas and gets a concussion, and everyone is in here yelling about how Nash is an 'idiot' and 'injury prone'.

McIlrath took care of it. This is a total non-issue.

 

[Lion Hound]

Honestly, I'm perfectly fine with Nash not going after Gudas in preseason.

Nash goes after Gudas and gets a concussion, and everyone is in here yelling about how Nash is an 'idiot' and 'injury prone'.

McIlrath took care of it. This is a total non-issue.

Nash I just cant agree at all. He didn't need to get into a knock em down slugfest...But at least get in there and facewash the guy. Are we that fragile that at 6'4 225lbs we can't show some emotion for one of your top prospects? There's a reason why #61 doesn't wear a "C" or an "A" despite being the clubs highest paid forward.

McIlrath definitely went in and had his back and it was good to see that out of him.

 

[Irishguy42]

 

[silverfish]

Nash I just cant agree at all. He didn't need to get into a knock em down slugfest...But at least get in there and facewash the guy. Are we that fragile that at 6'4 225lbs we can't show some emotion for one of your top prospects? There's a reason why #61 doesn't wear a "C" or an "A" despite being the clubs highest paid forward.

McIlrath definitely went in and had his back and it was good to see that out of him.

Yeah, he goes in and facewashes Gudas and Gudas just stands there and takes it? No, Gudas ****ing lays into him.

Nash isn't going to risk his career in a preseason game going over and 'sending a message' to a guy that would certainly rock him in a fight or a tussle.

And I still don't think it matters that much, because McIlrath flew in there like a ****ing missile shot out of a cannon straight from hell.



EDIT - and for the record, Nash tying up with Couturier opened up the lane for McIlrath to fly in unimpeded.

 

[Ori]

Definitely, I love this year's camp and what we have seen, and I don't want to proclaim someone being the biggest surprise or whatever, but still, Robin Kovac has obviously had a tremendous summer and this kid really loves the game.

Like he is 2-3, even 4, years younger than most young players we are used to see come into camp and make it past the first cut without playing lights out. Ryan Callahan didn't make the first cuts his first preseason in NY and he was what 21 y/o. The only reasonable expectation on Kovac going into this year's camp really should have been him just maybe doing something well in a scrimmage or something.

Sure you can debate the level of play and what not in pre-season. In these type of games Ryan Haggerty scored some fantastic goals etc. But I still think its very impressive that Kovac not only can get into these games and hold his own, he is playing comfortable creative hockey and is a factor with his positioning on the ice most of the time. The fact that he hasn't really put himself in the running for a spot in the NHL by challenging Vesey, Buch and co. say nothing for me. Hands down, if Kovac made this team out of camp that is by far -- AINEC -- the biggest camp surprise I would ever have witnessed following this team for over 25 years.

Yes, he is used to play against all age category players in Sweden with AIK - his talents and unique skills to get on the scoreboard is interesting to say at least.
He gets another chance this evening on the 4th line - I hope he could play a game with the Zib line instead of Pirri to see his full potential with other great players.

 

[Irishguy42]

McIlrath flying in like a bat out of hell to just yoink Gudas was amazing.

 

[Lion Hound]

Yeah, he goes in and facewashes Gudas and Gudas just stands there and takes it? No, Gudas ****ing lays into him.

Nash isn't going to risk his career in a preseason game going over and 'sending a message' to a guy that would certainly rock him in a fight or a tussle.

And I still don't think it matters that much, because McIlrath flew in there like a ****ing missile shot out of a cannon straight from hell.



EDIT - and for the record, Nash tying up with Couturier opened up the lane for McIlrath to fly in unimpeded.

Are we that fragile? Really?

ill watch McIlrath replay over and over. Who was the last player the Rangers had with that enthusiasm to stand up for his mates? Dubinsky? Cally?

 

[True Blue]

There is no logical justification for Girardi getting more minutes than McIlrath this year.

Agreed, but we have seen how this typically plays out in Rangerland. Girardi is getting outplayed by a lot of defensemen right now. AV needs to make the right choice, but doubt he will.

 

[Dagoon44]

Rick Nash is here to drive offense. Do you want your best offensive forward fighting Radko Gudas? I think that's the complete opposite of what a player like Nash should be doing. Risking an injury and a broken finger in a preseason game. Nash has size and speed for offense, not for being a goon. It's awful nowadays people can't see past small stature in a skill player and harps on power forwards to be fighters.

And this either proves you have never played hockey or you just dont understand team bonding.. Nash is a huge man and has had plenty of fights in the nhl. He was 2ft away and did nothing at all to step in and show leadership. He is laughed a by his peers already in the league as guy with all the tools and no heart. So if Mc isn't on the ice no one sticks up for their teammate and the kid is crushed and word spreads we are soft

 

[silverfish]

Are we that fragile? Really?

ill watch McIlrath replay over and over. Who was the last player the Rangers had with that enthusiasm to stand up for his mates? Dubinsky? Cally?

You're talking about a fighter vs. a non-fighter. Gudas is skilled in this realm. If he catches Nash and concusses him, HFNYR explodes and ****ing destroys Nash for going in there like an idiot.

This is another moment of HFNYR cake-eating at it's finest.

Again, this is a total non-issue. McIlrath took care of it.

 

[GOAT AINEC]

Glass playing again tonight.. I'm so ****ing done with AV.

Apparently the Rangers have a 10% less chance at making the playoffs with Glass in the lineup.

 

[Leetch3]

shocker...but the league cares about player safety lol

 

[Beer League Sniper]

shocker...but the league cares about player safety lol

Especially with a scrub like Gudas. Time and time again, he makes these dirty and borderline dirty plays. Rarely faces supplemental discipline.