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Provorov or Adam Fox?

Who is currently better?

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JackFr

JackFr

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Jun 18, 2010
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BrokenStix said:
Provorov plays 25 minutes a night almost exclusively against the best players in the NHL, while being a net positive player on the team.

His true talent lies in his ability to alter his game depending on the opponent. He can mix it up physically and dishes out monster hits when required. He is an absolute rock when the puck is down low, and likewise he can be the focal point of a breakout, with tape to tape passing.

He has a lethal wrist shot, and can straight up fire pucks clean past goalies. He's clearly been working on his slapshot all year too.

His stickwork is amongst the best in the NHL. He regularly strips players like Crosby, Malkin, McDavid etc and starts the breakout the other way.

But his true ability which has been mentioned is his engine. Provorov is as good in his 25th minute of ice time as he is in his first. His consistency across the game is unreal. He could literally PK for two periods and still look fresh in the third. I wouldbe quite confident in saying he's probably the fittest player in the NHL.

He has his flaws for sure. He can fumble the puck more often than I would like which causes turnovers and his PP ability leaves a little to be desired. But my god, when this kid is on, he's up there with the best.
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Thank the Lord finally someone just actually answers the damn question and explains why they think he's great in actual specifics other than "he plays a lot"
 

ottawah

Registered User
Jan 7, 2011
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Taking a look at the zone starts and QOC stats it is obvious that Provorov is put out in much tougher situations from Fox, and it is not really that close. So few people seem to understand that playing against Connor McDavid is harder than playing against Nick Paul. That has to be taken into account. Even if Provorov does not look quite as good, the simple fact is he would still be the better D man. To me Fox would have to look much much better ot be the betetr D man and I do not believe I have seen that.

You want to understand how Skjei went from such a great rookie to where he is now? OZone starts went from 60% to 40% and QOC edged up. That will kill anyones numbers and eye test.

You have to look at the positions some D men especially are put into. Some are put into a position where they will never succeed in numbers or the eye test, but those are highly valuable players.
 
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WhiskeyYerTheDevils

WhiskeyYerTheDevils

yer leadin me astray
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Apr 27, 2005
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Sasso09 said:
False on both counts. Defensively it's not even close to being close. Different worlds in favor of Provorov. He's better defensively than he is offensively.
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Numbers tell a different story.

As does the eye test. I'd argue Fox is better defensively than he is offensively.
 
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JackFr

JackFr

Registered User
Jun 18, 2010
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OK before this thread gets closed just one last case to be made for Fox over Provorov.

Here's a visualization that compares them. It uses xWAR, which is a stat that measures how many wins a player is expected to provide over a season compared to a replacement-level player, and accounts for teammates, competition, etc. It has no relation to goaltending (uses expected goals instead of goals against).

Adam Fox had a truly remarkable season this year. He was significantly better offensively, one of the best defensive defencemen in the league, and productive as well. And keep in mind that these stats aren't rates, they're totals, so Fox did far more in 19 minutes a night than Provorov did in that plus six extra minutes. The only case for Provorov over Fox is ice time. That's it.

9HTOgxt.png


tK7tnT7.png


One last thing, since people are grousing about Quality of Competition.

Provorov's most frequent linemates:
  1. Matt Niskanen
  2. Sean Couturier
  3. Claude Giroux
  4. Travis Konecny
  5. James van Riemsdyk
Fox's most frequent linemates:
  1. Ryan Lindgren
  2. Artemi Panarin
  3. Jesper Fast
  4. Pavel Buchnevich
  5. Ryan Strome
I would be very curious whether Flyers fans would prefer to have the second group of players than the first?
 
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Pavel Buchnevich

Pavel Buchnevich

Drury and Laviolette Must Go
Dec 8, 2013
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New York
Patagonia said:
Fox is not better than Rookies Makar or QHughes, but better than Provorov? He might get a few sympathy ROY votes, but has no chance in winning.

Poll Voting is already lopsided, regardless of the vocal NYR Fans opinions.

Lock this up.
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The only vocal people I see are ones like you that are disparaging Fox. I think most Rangers fans realize that Provorov is also a good player and is more established, so it's not that easy to say the rookie is a lot better. I don't think any Rangers fans have been vocal in saying it's not close, like some have said about Provorov.

And none of us have said that he's winning ROY. It's a counting stats contest. He doesn't play PP1, like those other two, so he's not winning it. We all know that, and none of us suggested he would win it. That does not mean though that he's a worse hockey player or has had a worse season. I think a lot of us will take Fox over one or both long-term and will take Fox's season over one or both.
 
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Pavel Buchnevich

Pavel Buchnevich

Drury and Laviolette Must Go
Dec 8, 2013
57,969
23,992
New York
Flyer lurker said:
You telling me Georgiev wasn't an above average goalie and help their d?
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Average goalie, in my opinion.

Machinehead said:
Why do people think Georgiev is good?
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It's the fault of our fans and management.

A lot of people don't actually watch that much of other teams. They go by what they hear repeated by fans of that team. All season we've had Ranger fans on this website insisting that Georgiyev can't be traded unless we get back a huge overpayment because he's so important to the team and has played so great. The validity of that is questionable, but its been said enough that people have believed it. These are the same people that think DeAngelo and Buchnevich aren't good players because a vocal minority of Rangers fans have been insisting all season to trade them. The moral of the story here is that people don't have enough time to properly evaluate every team. An aggregation of the comments they see in passing will suffice to draw an opinion.

It also doesn't help when the Rangers have a ridiculous ask for Georgiyev, and all you hear McKenzie, Friedman, Dreger repeat is that the Rangers don't want to move Georgiyev. It might be extreme posturing by Gorton because he believes he has the time to do so, but the team doesn't help.
 
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Machinehead

Machinehead

GoAwayTrouba
Jan 21, 2011
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bert said:
Its hilarious how many people on this site think they know more about hockey than the actual professionals. Embarassing really, easy way to know who's opinion is worthwhile taking seriously.
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You could say the same for those who think coaches are never wrong about things.
 
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