Provorov or Adam Fox?

[Machinehead]

Fact still remains that Flyers with Provorov have dominated Fox with Rangers every single time. You can hide behind meaningless numbers all you want.

Actually, with Fox and Provorov both on the ice, the two teams are tied in total goals.

 

[Sasso09]

There's nothing to indicate that it's some bizarre take.

Fox puts up metrics that place him among the elite defensemen in the NHL. Actually, that's not entirely accurate. He's really on his own island.

Nobody is saying he actually is the best or anything like that but it shouldn't be dismissed either.

People say "take the analytics with a grain of salt" but nobody actually does that. They're still being completely dismissed.

It's very bizarre and i'll be mild with you because i think you're one of the more intelligent and honest posters here.

You can't begin to compare their numbers without the context. Fox gets easy usage... Sure his Rel stats look great and Rel stats are important but you can't discount he's being used as a sheltered 4D. He's pretty much a less talented version of Shayne Gostisbehere when Shayne was a rookie. When Ghost started getting harder minutes look what happened to him. I'm not saying or expecting it'll happen to Fox but you better believe his numbers won't look worse.

 

[UnSandvich]

Numbers don't lie at all. Fox is extremely sheltered and puts up worse Corsi than Provorov does while playing the 8th most minutes in the league against the best of the best every shift. There's no argument to be had. You can't even begin to compare the numbers when the work load is that significantly different.

If you're going to bring up Corsi, you might want to bring up the fact that Fox is 10th leaguewide in CF% Rel among players with 12+ games played. Then again, maybe you don't want to do that because Provorov is...248th leaguewide.

Or the fact that while Provorov has a better CF%, Fox's FF%, GF%, xGF%, SCF%, and HDCF% are all better than Provorov's. As are essentially all of his Rel's besides CF Rel, which I've already mentioned.

 

[Sasso09]

If you're going to bring up Corsi, you might want to bring up the fact that Fox is 10th leaguewide in CF% Rel among players with 12+ games played. Then again, maybe you don't want to do that because Provorov is...248th leaguewide.

Or the fact that while Provorov has a better CF%, Fox's FF%, GF%, xGF%, SCF%, and HDCF% are all better than Provorov's. As are essentially all of his Rel's besides CF Rel, which I've already mentioned.

I did mention that. You also Omit XGA for some reason.... i wonder why?

 

[UnSandvich]

I did mention that. You also Omit XGA for some reason.... i wonder why?

xGF% includes both xGA and xGF. It's almost like the % actually means something, gasp.

Also, fun fact, your post mentioning it wasn't displayed at the time I was typing.

EDIT: Hahahahaha, you know the best thing? Fox has a better xGA than Provorov too. 42.47 vs 42.74 via NaturalStatTrick

 

[Machinehead]

It's very bizarre and i'll be mild with you because i think you're one of the more intelligent and honest posters here.

You can't begin to compare their numbers without the context. Fox gets easy usage... Sure his Rel stats look great and Rel stats are important but you can't discount he's being used as a sheltered 4D. He's pretty much a less talented version of Shayne Gostisbehere when Shayne was a rookie. When Ghost started getting harder minutes look what happened to him. I'm not saying or expecting it'll happen to Fox but you better believe his numbers won't look worse.

Fox doesn't get easy usage.

It's become a reflex to just assume any defenseman with good corsi doesn't play hard competition.

None of the Rangers defensemen have clear-cut #1 usage. Provorov does, I'll give you that, but Fox is not sheltered.

 

[LuckyBoeser]

@Sasso09 again... Fox is a better corsi driver and the only reason Provorov has a slightly better CF% is that he plays on a team that is far better by shot metrics. When looking at relative to teammates stats and rapm corsi, it favours Fox by a long shot.

You have not once responded to anyone's point in this thread that suggests Fox > Provorov with any valid premise to defuse the argument being made. Instead, you keep spitting out how Provorov plays far more and face tougher competition which absolutely does not prove that Provorov is the better player.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

You literally shit on every single Flyers player, every single time.

That's because you're a delusional advanced stats guy that can't see any other context. You rely solely on those numbers. You need to supplement them not lead with them blindly.

Couturier is severely underrated but top 5 player in the league might be a stretch, there's a ton of great players in the league.

- Literally shit on every single Flyers player, every single time.

- Ranks Couturier higher than the biggest Flyers homer on this forum.

Does not compute.

 

[spiny norman]

Lopsided result.