Props when props is due

[bsl]

Good point but we were also missing Weise and Moen

And Prust.

 

[BlackStar]

I am glad you've come around Kriss E, you gained more respect from me (not that you care )

This team still has some obvious weaknesses, but this is still the most complete team we've had in a long time. I would take this team over the 2007/2008 version.

Assuming that Prust, Moen, and Gorges are able to play in the playoffs, I want to see this:

Max - DD - Vanek
Chuckie - Plekanec - Gallagher
Bourque - Briere - Gionta
Prust - White/Wiese - Moen

Subban - Gorges
Emelin - Markov
Murray/Tinordi - Weaver

 

[Habs10Habs]

Well, that's impossible to really know. The game would certainly have been different. Both teams would have played completely different, so who knows where it would have lead to. But yes, had we played the exact same way with Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Cleary, and Ericsson in, we'd probably have lost.

True, that's just speculation on my part Kriss. But anytime you remove a team's two best players, plus the others you kindly listed. It's easy to assume that they would have played a much better game. I was confident going into the game that we would win. I'm not sure I would have been as confident, if the Wing's injured players were in the line up.

 

[Habs10Habs]

Good point but we were also missing Weise and Moen

And Prust.

Haha, thanks guys. Yes we were missing some vital players as well.

 

[bsl]

Everybody pretty much seem to be coming along together.
The DD line is becoming a much more solid one offensively with the addition of Vanek.
If MaxPac plays like he did yesterday, the guy is an absolute beast and his playmaking abilities are coming to life with another winger capable of scoring with a different strategy than just crash the net (no knock of Gallagher, I love that bugger).
Plek's line is the more concerning to me. His line usually has the tough defensive assignments and that only increases come PO time. Will the sophomores be able to keep up with those assignments? Time will tell, but if they do, we finally have our 2nd line.
Our 3rd line seem to be working, Bourque got the message after his 5 game scratch, we can only hope he keeps it up for the final stretch. Briere has always played better as games became more important, his clutch reputation is warranted. The guy was always more comfortable at center, which is why it made no sense of us to acquire him. But at least he's definitely at the right place now. That duo completed by Gionta, who really gets to shine more on that line, is giving us a pretty good depth 3rd line.
Eller has been pretty good these past few games as well, I think he'll continue that way because going against 4th liners to him should be a walk in the park. Having him with Prust and Bournival or Moen as a 4th line could prove to be very beneficial.

Our defense is what worries me most, but PK is a beast and steps up his game in the POs. I never swallowed the belief that Markov was a no-show for POs. He still makes the same solid and smart passes, he battles the same way, his positioning is the same. Having those two guys around is really great. Emelin seem to finally be coming around. Hopefully Gorges will be back sooner rather than later because I don't like going into the POs with Bouillon on PK's side. Weaver on the 3rd pairing adds smarts and stability.
But with Price in net playing the way he is, I know he can cover for a weaker D corps.

I think the Ottawa game really was perfect for them. Winning those games really gives you a confidence booster. Since then, we're 7-1 with 28 GF. That's a scoring ratio of 3.5/gp. Significant improvement. Hopefully we can keep this up.
Since Vanek joined us, we're 7-4, with a 2.8 scoring ratio. His presence definitely played its part in helping our offense.

In a wide open Eastern conference, if we keep this up and enter the POs all guns blazing, I'll be very confident.

Good post. I'll mention one thing that no one mentions: Gallagher would have been dead by PO with his style playing on the first line.

Gally is not able to sustain that level of play long term. The Vanek signing has relieved Gallagher of the mounting damage, and in the PO he will be very valuable because of it.

The Vanek signing was so important, in so many ways. Even if we lose the guy, he has saved Gally from major long term damage this year.

Long term Gallagher should be a second line RW, let's hope we can sign Vanek, because Vanek is just ****ing untouchable on the first line, he's like ****ing teflon. It is such a pleasure to see that level of strength and talent on this team.

And Gallagher could never have done what Vanek did to Kronwall last night either. Man, that was just ****ing killing.

 

[Fish on The Sand]

The Vanek deal ONLY becomes a good move IF he stays in Montreal. Otherwise, it is nothing more than giving up assets for a rental, on a team built for failure. Nothing more than a smokescreen to disguise how crappy this team is.

Normally I'd agree. I'm not a huge fan of giving up real assets for a rental. However in this case I feel that the price was sufficiently low and we got ourselves a real game breaker.

 

[Whitesnake]

Oh, Timmins is definitely deserving of Props. Never had a problem giving them to him.
I was more talking about the acquisitions made this year.

Did you actually do that on purpose? i.e. reading Timmins instead of Therrien?

 

[Redux91]

Did you actually do that on purpose? i.e. reading Timmins instead of Therrien?

lol its kriss...he definitely did..

im still not giving michel props till bouillon is perma out of line up

takes michel way too long to figure out things imo

 

[Kriss E]

I am glad you've come around Kriss E, you gained more respect from me (not that you care )

This team still has some obvious weaknesses, but this is still the most complete team we've had in a long time. I would take this team over the 2007/2008 version.

Assuming that Prust, Moen, and Gorges are able to play in the playoffs, I want to see this:

Max - DD - Vanek
Chuckie - Plekanec - Gallagher
Bourque - Briere - Gionta
Prust - White/Wiese - Moen

Subban - Gorges
Emelin - Markov
Murray/Tinordi - Weaver

Weise-Prust-Moen was looking pretty good together, but I think the 4th line would be much better if Eller gets to center it. Not only is he the most gifted offensively out of all these guys, but he's also good at board battles and cycling the puck. He's had offensive success with both Prust and Moen in the past on 3rd lines. So I'd definitely be interested in seeing that trio put together versus 4th liners. I think it could be our ''secret'' weapon.

 

[Kriss E]

Good post. I'll mention one thing that no one mentions: Gallagher would have been dead by PO with his style playing on the first line.

Gally is not able to sustain that level of play long term. The Vanek signing has relieved Gallagher of the mounting damage, and in the PO he will be very valuable because of it.

The Vanek signing was so important, in so many ways. Even if we lose the guy, he has saved Gally from major long term damage this year.

Long term Gallagher should be a second line RW, let's hope we can sign Vanek, because Vanek is just ****ing untouchable on the first line, he's like ****ing teflon. It is such a pleasure to see that level of strength and talent on this team.

And Gallagher could never have done what Vanek did to Kronwall last night either. Man, that was just ****ing killing.

To be honest, I'm surprised Gallagher's game hasn't dropped so much. He's still battling seriously hard out there.

Eventually though, it's likely to take its toll, I agree.

 

[Kriss E]

Did you actually do that on purpose? i.e. reading Timmins instead of Therrien?

Not sure

Still don't want to give much credit to Therrien. He still does some weird things and not a fan of the dump and chase style, and turning us into a 1 line team while having almost everyone regress is pretty bad. But it's not about him.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

The Vanek deal ONLY becomes a good move IF he stays in Montreal. Otherwise, it is nothing more than giving up assets for a rental, on a team built for failure. Nothing more than a smokescreen to disguise how crappy this team is.

I don't see why you'd say this. What assets did we really give up here?

As for this team being "crappy" that's not close to true. The core of this roster is actually pretty good. Our coach is an idiot and we need to fix some holes but Vanek is a huge piece to an already good core. And in the East, we just might surprise some people. Tampa is not unbeatable and that looks like a decent matchup for us. We might actually be able to advance a round or two.

Watch out now with all your props....it might also have to go to Therrien to....

No.

The bi-polar babies on this board AREN'T EVEN CLOSE of eating crow regarding Bergevin. We have a ton of prospects with character, who are supervised by 2 ex players that took pride in their work, in a winning enviroment, that will join the team in the next 2 to 5 years. I know some noobs will be saying " wow, we managed to find the same asset, cheaper, within the system, how did Bergevin do it!!" This time, for real, there'S a longterm plan in place and this is just the beggining.

You can only evaluate a GM based on what he's done. His initial moves with this team were mostly flat out bad. The best that could be said about them was that they were short term commitments that wouldn't cripple us. The Vanek move however was brilliant. And if he re-signs the guy then its just that much better.

Nothing bi-polar about this dude. The fact is that this GM hasn't been around long enough to know how good he's actually going to be. He's a rookie GM and building his reputation with us now. Opinions on him will be revised on an on-going basis as they should be.

Folks definitely went overboard saying that he should be fired but sitting there screaming "he has a plan" when none seems to be in evidence doesn't make a whole lot of sense either. He's made draft picks so far... that's about it. Every GM in the league does this.

As for his roster moves, it's been mixed. As far as I'm concerned though his flops haven't hurt us too bad because they've been short term and he's hit a homerun with Vanek. So there's reason for optimism here. Some folks solidly behind or against this guy and quite frankly I don't think there's enough information here to go either way. It's just too early in the ballgame to know how he's going to do. But at least now there's cause for optimism whereas before it was just something that we'd hope for.

 

[Dominator13]

You can only evaluate a GM based on what he's done. His initial moves with this team were mostly flat out bad. The best that could be said about them was that they were short term commitments that wouldn't cripple us.


Folks definitely went overboard saying that he should be fired but sitting there screaming "he has a plan" when none seems to be in evidence doesn't make a whole lot of sense either. He's made draft picks so far... that's about it. Every GM in the league does this.

Right from the begging you're wrong. His 1st moves were the additions of marty Lapointe, Patrice Brisebois and Scott Melanby. 3 brand new jobs for the ready drafted prospects to maximise their chances of getting to the the NHL. In the longrun, his 1st move sill turn out to be the best one. Expecting a Thomas Vanek type trade from the get-go is exactly what I ment when i said bi-polar babies, they don't understand that it takes time and they complain for no reason. His plan is so obvious, build a core, and fill out with assets from within, basically a carbon copy from Chicago.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Right from the begging you're wrong. His 1st moves were the additions of marty Lapointe, Patrice Brisebois and Scott Melanby.

3 brand new jobs for the ready drafted prospects to maximise their chances of getting to the the NHL. In the longrun, his 1st move sill turn out to be the best one.

Tell us what you like about the job those three have done. Be specific. What have they done that has you so excited?

Then let us know about what you think of the Murray, Briere and Parros signings as well as your thoughts on MT. Most posters btw, gave credit to MB for at least bringing in a culture of change to an organization that needed it after the last guy.

Expecting a Thomas Vanek type trade from the get-go is exactly what I ment when i said bi-polar babies, they don't understand that it takes time and they complain for no reason. His plan is so obvious, build a core, and fill out with assets from within, basically a carbon copy from Chicago.

But you can't deny it's been a mixed bag. Some good, some bad but not much to go on here. We really don't know what kind of a GM MB is going to be.

 

[BRAD HABSFAN]

Good post. I'll mention one thing that no one mentions: Gallagher would have been dead by PO with his style playing on the first line.

Gally is not able to sustain that level of play long term. The Vanek signing has relieved Gallagher of the mounting damage, and in the PO he will be very valuable because of it.

The Vanek signing was so important, in so many ways. Even if we lose the guy, he has saved Gally from major long term damage this year. Long term Gallagher should be a second line RW, let's hope we can sign Vanek, because Vanek is just ****ing untouchable on the first line, he's like ****ing teflon. It is such a pleasure to see that level of strength and talent on this team.

And Gallagher could never have done what Vanek did to Kronwall last night either. Man, that was just ****ing killing.

This pick up has done so much to the whole line up. It has given a whole new look to this team and has slotted players in WIN/WIN situations. I saw throw the checkbook at him.

 

[Andrei79]

Tell us what you like about the job those three have done. Be specific. What have they done that has you so excited?

Then let us know about what you think of the Murray, Briere and Parros signings as well as your thoughts on MT. Most posters btw, gave credit to MB for at least bringing in a culture of change to an organization that needed it after the last guy.

But you can't deny it's been a mixed bag. Some good, some bad but not much to go on here. We really don't know what kind of a GM MB is going to be.

His body of work has been pretty clear from his first 2 years imo. He's brought in toughness, experience on short term contracts, he's signed his homegrown players on good deals, he's acquired character players and he moved out an unhappy player on a bad contract (Cole).

I remember people we're applauding Gainey for getting Langdow and Begin his first year, adding Kovalev at the end. Well, Bergervin has done more than that, in a cap era, and brought in depth like we haven't seen in a while going in to the POs.

The hate he gets is unwarranted.

 

[Smokey Thompson]

We had some injuries up front last year that left us playing Blunden, Dumont, Armstrong.

This year, we lose our whole 4th line and replace it with Bournival, Eller, White.

We lose Gorges, and have 2 of Murray/Tinordi/Bouillon rotating to replace him.

If anything, MB has brought in the organizational depth that this team has been lacking for years.

 

[hockeyfan2k11]

Welcome to injury world. Habs have had lots of it, now Wings do also. They're getting old. I have no sympathy, except on the human side.

Habs have been a lot more fortunate than the Wings. Imagine losing Price, Subban, Max and Markov for an extended period of time.

 

[Sorinth]

His body of work has been pretty clear from his first 2 years imo. He's brought in toughness, experience on short term contracts, he's signed his homegrown players on good deals, he's acquired character players and he moved out an unhappy player on a bad contract (Cole).

I remember people we're applauding Gainey for getting Langdow and Begin his first year, adding Kovalev at the end. Well, Bergervin has done more than that, in a cap era, and brought in depth like we haven't seen in a while going in to the POs.

The hate he gets is unwarranted.

I'm not sure you can really say he signed his homegrown players to good deals just yet. Pacioretty is a bargain, Price is around his proper value, but not getting Subban at around 5m when we had the chance was not good, Desharnais (Length more than cap hit) was not very good, Emelin is still up in the air but hasn't looked to good so far. I think we'll have until after this offseason to properly judge this aspect of his work.

As for the hate he got, I never hated him but certainly criticized him a lot. I felt it was basically mistake after mistake for a year and a half so there was legitimate reasons to be concerned/worried. Everyone makes mistakes but so long as Bergevin makes the right moves on the "big" ones then it doesn't matter as much if the smaller moves are mistakes or not. The fact that none of his mistakes were crippling is also good.

Just acquiring Vanek restored a lot of faith that I'd lost in him. If we re-sign Vanek (Along with Subban/Markov) then I'll be very happy with Bergevin overall. I'll be 150% on board if he also replaces Therrien with virtually anyone.

 

[PricePkPatch*]

Habs have been a lot more fortunate than the Wings. Imagine losing Price, Subban, Max and Markov for an extended period of time.

And yet, that half-AHL team managed to beat the Yotes and the Penguins.

They are hungry for the playoffs, and that made them dangerous; regardless of their lineup.

 

[Andrei79]

I'm not sure you can really say he signed his homegrown players to good deals just yet. Pacioretty is a bargain, Price is around his proper value, but not getting Subban at around 5m when we had the chance was not good, Desharnais (Length more than cap hit) was not very good, Emelin is still up in the air but hasn't looked to good so far. I think we'll have until after this offseason to properly judge this aspect of his work.

As for the hate he got, I never hated him but certainly criticized him a lot. I felt it was basically mistake after mistake for a year and a half so there was legitimate reasons to be concerned/worried. Everyone makes mistakes but so long as Bergevin makes the right moves on the "big" ones then it doesn't matter as much if the smaller moves are mistakes or not. The fact that none of his mistakes were crippling is also good.

Just acquiring Vanek restored a lot of faith that I'd lost in him. If we re-sign Vanek (Along with Subban/Markov) then I'll be very happy with Bergevin overall. I'll be 150% on board if he also replaces Therrien with virtually anyone.

For someone who makes so many mistakes though, his team sure is in a good position now and in the future.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

His body of work has been pretty clear from his first 2 years imo. He's brought in toughness, experience on short term contracts, he's signed his homegrown players on good deals, he's acquired character players and he moved out an unhappy player on a bad contract (Cole).

I remember people we're applauding Gainey for getting Langdow and Begin his first year, adding Kovalev at the end. Well, Bergervin has done more than that, in a cap era, and brought in depth like we haven't seen in a while going in to the POs.

He brought in three useless players in the offseason. Let's not sugarcoat it, his performance this past summer was dreadful.

The hate he gets is unwarranted.

Some of it was over the top from some posters sure. But until the Vanek signing there wasn't much to cheer about. The Vanek signing though was brilliant. And if he can re-sign him it will be a huge coup.

 

[PricePkPatch*]

He brought in three useless players in the offseason. Let's not sugarcoat it, his performance this past summer was dreadful.

Some of it was over the top from some posters sure. But until the Vanek signing there wasn't much to cheer about. The Vanek signing though was brilliant. And if he can re-sign him it will be a huge coup.

Murray? Briere? Useless?

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Murray? Briere? Useless?

Absolutely.

 

[PricePkPatch*]

Absolutely.

So... you haven't caught a game since January, or what?