Speculation: Propose a (realistic) trade move that can put us into the playoffs.

[Detroit Knights]

Wings should be all in on EP if he ever became available. He's one of the missing pieces that the Wings are missing.

I don't think the Nucks move him during the season and would instead to it at the draft. The Dubois trade would be a close comparable, though EP is a tier or 2 higher. Dubois got Vilardi, Iafallo, Kupari + a 2nd.

I could see something like Fabbri +Berggren + Kasper/Danielson + Wallinder/Mazur + 2024/2025 1st. I think if push came to shove I'd be willing to do Berggren + Kasper+ Danielson + 2024/2025 1st for him. EP is a true top 5/10 level player in his prime and is worth paying a premium for.

Roll into 2024-2025 with:

Mazur - Larkin - Raymond
Rasmussen - EP - Debrincat
Copp - Compher - Soderblom
Kostin - Veleno - Random UFA

Walman - Seider
Edvinsson - Petry
Maata - Holl
Chiarot

Husso
1B Goalie

The only issue might be the cap space. Raymond, Seider, and EP all are up for contracts and would likely cost 23-26M in total.

I would not do kasper + Danielson at all. After this year and we see how kasper does for a full year of NA pro hockey, then make the decision. I would much rather get rid of wallinder or aljo no matter how good I think they are/want to keep them, but getting rid of both kasper and danielson might be close to a disaster and yes I realize what the ages are of larkin/ep/etc. Having a center depth of larkin - ep - kasper/danielson would be much more beneficial than not getting rid of an extra defender that we have.

fabbri + Berggren + k/d + Wallinder/ALJO + 1st would be just a bit*h but I'd make that trade pretty quickly, of which leads me to believe it isn't good enough. Might have to change fabbri + berggren to Rasmussen + Berggren tbh.

Kostin - larkin - raymond
Mazur - EP - DBC
copp - compher - soderblom/Lombardi(???)

That would be a top 6 that could rival a lot of teams with how difficult it would be to allocate the resources necessary to cover all 3 lines, much less the top 6, against most teams in the league. I put kostin up there because from some highlights and articles that is said of him suggests he can play with skill guys just fine and can be the tough guy. Larkin is pretty tough most of the time and adding kostin would be great there. Then putting mazur to protect the others while still having that ability as a goal scoring threat would be fantastic.

Not to mention in either of our forward groups, that PP1 and PP2 would be nasty.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Kostin - larkin - raymond
Mazur - EP - DBC
copp - compher - soderblom/Lombardi(???)

Kasper and Danielson?

 

[Detroit Knights]

Kasper and Danielson?

As I said above those lines I posted: Kasper or Danielson would be traded to van for EP at the draft/deadline if we want to have any shot on trading for EP to secure the asset before FA hell begins.

This is Kasper's first official year in NA pro hockey, so I would much rather see what he looks like for the next 5 months to get a gauge on how he is going to play. At this point, if he shows well, he could probably move to wing and play up with larkin and raymond to get him first line minutes and maybe take some faceoffs here and there to get him ready to be top line center when larkin has to step out of that roll for age reasons if that becomes the case. Then this gives more time for danielson to develop if he is kept and not traded for EP.

 

[Indrid Cold]

Kasper+Ras+Wallinder+Mazur+ 2024 first round pick and 2nd round pick for EP.

 

[norrisnick]

Kasper+Ras+Wallinder+Mazur+ 2024 first round pick and 2nd round pick for EP.

I get that it's a whole "cart before the horse" thing, and from Vancouver's perspective it's a handful of nickels for a dollar... BUT... if the goal is to get EP so we can finally make it to the playoffs... the bolded are the last guys (apart from you know Mo or Ed) I want to give up. Can you just imagine that as a line in the playoffs? Ras - Kasper - Mazur The opposition would be raging every shift.

 

[Indrid Cold]

I get that it's a whole "cart before the horse" thing, and from Vancouver's perspective it's a handful of nickels for a dollar... BUT... if the goal is to get EP so we can finally make it to the playoffs... the bolded are the last guys (apart from you know Mo or Ed) I want to give up. Can you just imagine that as a line in the playoffs? Ras - Kasper - Mazur The opposition would be raging every shift.

You got to give, to get. That line would great and all, but wont be in the playoffs if we dont have people who can put the puck in the net.

 

[Henkka]

Think Raymond moves to Vancouver if Petterson is available.

+ extra, of course.

Raymond will move out from the 1st power-play for next 4 seasons, if Pettersson arrives. There's just more proven guys and/or who fit to roles better.

Because it will be:

Screener (like Söderblom)

DeBrincat - Larkin - Pettersson (Right and LEft handed snipers on the flanks)

PPQB defenceman (Gostisbehere, Seider)

 

[Pavels Dog]

As I said above those lines I posted: Kasper or Danielson would be traded to van for EP at the draft/deadline if we want to have any shot on trading for EP to secure the asset before FA hell begins.

This is Kasper's first official year in NA pro hockey, so I would much rather see what he looks like for the next 5 months to get a gauge on how he is going to play. At this point, if he shows well, he could probably move to wing and play up with larkin and raymond to get him first line minutes and maybe take some faceoffs here and there to get him ready to be top line center when larkin has to step out of that roll for age reasons if that becomes the case. Then this gives more time for danielson to develop if he is kept and not traded for EP.

Alright, I didn't follow since you said you didn't want to trade them. Which I agree with.

Think Raymond moves to Vancouver if Petterson is available.

+ extra, of course.

We need more high-end talent, not 1-for-1 trades, even when the piece we get in return is better and more established.

Exiting a rebuild and trying to put the "final piece" in place via trade, we should leverage the expendable assets we have:

- Any defensive prospects behind Edvinsson
- Young "depth" forwards (Veleno, Berggren, Hanas, Niederbach, Dower Nilssons, Buchelnikov etc.)
- NHL players over the age of ~26 (Copp, Compher, Walman, etc.)
- Draft picks

Debrincat trade is example 1A of this. Expendable defensive prospect + expendable NHLer + picks.

 

[Henkka]

Pettersson is pretty much superior vs. Raymond.

Also the Center vs. Winger thing. You have to overpay for getting a Center with winger asset.

102-point Center, 24-year old, 7th at Selke voting.

Where do I sign ?

 

[Mort Divine]

Debrincat trade is example 1A of this. Expendable defensive prospect + expendable NHLer + picks.

You don't get good players for spare parts very often. The Debrincat trade was an exception and not how most trades will realistically go.

Have to give up quality to get quality almost every other time.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Pettersson is pretty much superior vs. Raymond.

Also the Center vs. Winger thing. You have to overpay for getting a Center with winger asset.

102-point Center, 24-year old, 7th at Selke voting.

Where do I sign ?

Yes, but Raymond is 21 and our best winger under the age of 25. Other than Debrincat (who may leave after 4 years) we have no one in the organization with legit top line winger upside other than Raymond. It's not a position of strength for us.

You don't get good players for spare parts very often. The Debrincat trade was an exception and not how most trades will realistically go.

Have to give up quality to get quality almost every other time.

IF a Pettersson trade becomes a possibility it's because Vancouver has to trade him. That lowers their leverage.
Pettersson will get to decide his location almost as much as Debrincat did, because no team will trade major assets for him without knowing he'll sign long-term with them. His cap hit will also prevent some teams from being real players. All that means there won't be 30 teams bidding, more like 5-10 at most.

Also I wouldn't call something like 1st+1st+2nd+Wallinder+Berggren a "spare parts" package, it's just a package of assets that are expendable to us, but extremely difficult for all that many teams to match.

 

[norrisnick]

Vancouver will not trade EP without an at least top 6 and/or top 4 actual NHL player going back. Bergie would be stretching that a bit coming off a rookie season, but maybe.

If I were Vancouver I wouldn't consider a trade package without Ras, Ed and two 1sts or one first and one of Kasper/Danielson. And I don't think that's a trade we win. EP should return about double what Horvat did.

 

[Ricelund]

Elite players rarely ever return as much as people think they will.

I have a hard time thinking of a realistic scenario where the Wings end up with Pettersson but lose the trade. He would be an epic get.

 

[DatsDeking]

Pettersson is going to be our new Stamkos. All the high hopes with no payoff!

That said, I’d easily give two firsts, AlJo, and a forward like Mazur or Bergren for him.

 

[Pavels Dog]

If I were Vancouver I wouldn't consider a trade package without Ras, Ed and two 1sts or one first and one of Kasper/Danielson. And I don't think that's a trade we win. EP should return about double what Horvat did.

Who are we bidding against in this scenario?

Take a team like Boston (who would be all over him). They can't offer anything close to Kasper/Danielson/Edvinsson. They barely own their own 1sts, struggle for cap space and have no young talent on the roster.

If they end up trading him it's because they're forced to. They will NOT hold the leverage. The best offer from a team that can afford to re-sign him and with whom he will re-sign is what gets him, not the offer that's actually fair value.

 

[norrisnick]

Who are we bidding against in this scenario?

Take a team like Boston (who would be all over him). They can't offer anything close to Kasper/Danielson/Edvinsson. They barely own their own 1sts, struggle for cap space and have no young talent on the roster.

If they end up trading him it's because they're forced to. They will NOT hold the leverage. The best offer from a team that can afford to re-sign him and with whom he will re-sign is what gets him, not the offer that's actually fair value.

Columbus, Anaheim, Carolina, Buffalo, there are lots of teams that have great pieces to send Vancouver's way to fast-track contention.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Columbus, Anaheim, Carolina, Buffalo, there are lots of teams that have great pieces to send Vancouver's way to fast-track contention.

Columbus has Babcock and Anaheim is a divisional rival which reduces likelihood of them being in the mix. Carolina doesn't have the depth of young talent unless they're willing to part with Nikishin (unlikely).
Buffalo.. maybe. They already have Thompson and Cozens though, I struggle to see them going hard for Pettersson, and for Pettersson to view that as a target destination.

Obviously there would be bidding, but once you actually get down to the nitty gritty there tends to be teams that simply can't afford it, teams where he doesn't want to go, teams without enough desireable assets, and teams that frankly don't need him badly enough.

 

[Ricelund]

Hopefully Lidstrom, Kronwall, and Zetterberg can help grease the wheels a bit here.

 

[RRhoads]

Columbus has Babcock and Anaheim is a divisional rival which reduces likelihood of them being in the mix. Carolina doesn't have the depth of young talent unless they're willing to part with Nikishin (unlikely).
Buffalo.. maybe. They already have Thompson and Cozens though, I struggle to see them going hard for Pettersson, and for Pettersson to view that as a target destination.

Obviously there would be bidding, but once you actually get down to the nitty gritty there tends to be teams that simply can't afford it, teams where he doesn't want to go, teams without enough desireable assets, and teams that frankly don't need him badly enough.

I think there will be plenty of teams that can afford him. Cap is going up, and salaries will be going the other way.

 

[Axel Sandy Pelikan]

Yes, but Raymond is 21 and our best winger under the age of 25. Other than Debrincat (who may leave after 4 years) we have no one in the organization with legit top line winger upside other than Raymond. It's not a position of strength for us.


IF a Pettersson trade becomes a possibility it's because Vancouver has to trade him. That lowers their leverage.
Pettersson will get to decide his location almost as much as Debrincat did, because no team will trade major assets for him without knowing he'll sign long-term with them. His cap hit will also prevent some teams from being real players. All that means there won't be 30 teams bidding, more like 5-10 at most.

Also I wouldn't call something like 1st+1st+2nd+Wallinder+Berggren a "spare parts" package, it's just a package of assets that are expendable to us, but extremely difficult for all that many teams to match.

For Elias Pettersson it 100% is a spare parts package. Wallinder and Berggren don't add much to the value of the package (or at least anywhere near as much as you think).

 

[Bench]

Elite players rarely ever return as much as people think they will.

I have a hard time thinking of a realistic scenario where the Wings end up with Pettersson but lose the trade. He would be an epic get.

Seems to depend if the player is gunning for a location or not.

Pettersson has a lot of agency here, like DeBrincat, in that he's due a contract and no team is going to offer premium assets unless they have assurances he'll sign a long-term deal. DeBrincat putting Detroit on the short list helped bring his cost from what Ottawa paid to a far more reasonable Detroit offering.

Ironically, the biggest trade chip the Wings had for the Canucks was already traded to them: Hronek.

So our big hope here is that Pettersson is a huge Yzerman stan and wants to join up with the other Swedes coming into the system and try to recapture that magic that he saw in Detroit as a kid. It's a big nostalgic, but there's worse reasons to go somewhere and get paid.

So far Pettersson is saying all the things a guy says before he asks for a trade at the end of the season, so... we'll see.

For Elias Pettersson it 100% is a spare parts package. Wallinder and Berggren don't add much to the value of the package (or at least anywhere near as much as you think).

Yeah, if Pettersson is getting moved to Detroit, we'd have to stomach losing one of the top prospects, not the B-tier guys. Losing a guy like Kasper would suck, but I think we'd all survive with Pettersson, Larkin, and Danielson down the middle.

 

[Axel Sandy Pelikan]

You got to give, to get. That line would great and all, but wont be in the playoffs if we dont have people who can put the puck in the net.

Less quantity, more quality. You start getting to 4-5 assets going one way in a trade, they start having a negative value effect, because they need contract spots for those guys, their own guys, and cap space for all.

Far more likely to be Edvinsson, Berggren, and a couple firsts than that. Wallinder will have toss-in value. Mazur will have toss-in value. If they're dealing Pettersson, they're probably looking blue, blue chip, a solid current NHL roster forward or D and picks with little in the way of protection while the Wings are still working out the kinks of their roster (so '24 or '25.)

 

[Voodoo Glow Skulls]

Just one thing to consider with Petterson, that I don't think has been mentioned:

He's an RFA. If he won't re-sign in Vancouver because they aren't going anywhere(his opinion) then Vancouver's options will be limited.

 

[WingsToPick4th]

I would absolutely give up a huge package for EP40, he’s a young elite 1C and only getting better.

If VAN wanted Marco Kasper, Axel Sandin Pellika and a 1st I would gladly do It and I doubt other teams could match value like this high.

Debrincat - Petterson - Raymond
Berggren - Larkin - Mazur
Lombardi - Danielson - Ras is nasty

And we would keep Edvinsson & Wallinder

 

[Pavels Dog]

For Elias Pettersson it 100% is a spare parts package. Wallinder and Berggren don't add much to the value of the package (or at least anywhere near as much as you think).

Historically it's probably closer to what tends to happen, although it's extremely rare for player of this caliber to be moved so it's very situational. Eichel was moved for 1st+2nd+3rd+Krebs+Tuch. A good package, but it's not Kasper+Danielson++ good.

It also depends on who we're bidding against. Boston had exactly 0 players on the top 160 U23 players list recently, we had 10.
If they are one of the few teams EP will sign with we can easily outbid them with young talent without giving up our top guys.