Sportsnet: Problems in the Leafs' dressing room

[beer123]

This is my speculation but I think Kessel is one of the whiners. If the Leafs wanted to build a team with Boston's model then having Kessel, as the one player they called out and eventually shipped out, as your leader to build around is obviously not the correct move. IMO trade him...

Also, where's that gif of kessel saying **** to phaneuf live during a game?

 

[Bluejaysfan*]

If Grabovski and McArthur were mad enough to tell the media how much they hated Carlyle, it doesn't seem far-fetched to think that they didn't voice their opinions along with others to Nonis or other upper-management.

 

[Stats01]

Mallard and Maclean being Mallard and Maclean, nothing more nothing less.

Such an easy answer. Yeah Dreger being Dreger, Maclean and Millard being Maclean Millard...I get sick of these answers. You do realize these guys do know people on the inside or else they wouldn't have jobs. You think TSN hired Dreger because they wanted some guy to go on tv and make **** up...no..

This team has major issues, you don't have a major collapse like this without the leadership core having some problems. Something is not right with this group and there is a reason why Shanahan was brought in at this time. They want him and Nonis to shake things up. There are going to be 2 or 3 major trades IMO this summer. There is no way this team is going to look the same next October, absolutely no way.

 

[Bluejaysfan*]

This is my speculation but I think Kessel is one of the whiners. If the Leafs wanted to build a team with Boston's model then having Kessel, as the one player they called out and eventually shipped out, as your leader to build around is obviously not the correct move. IMO trade him...

Also, where's that gif of kessel saying **** to phaneuf live during a game?

1. Players swear all the time to each other during a game, it shows they care...

2. Boston traded a similar young player in Seguin for Eriksson. I know they have the best record in the league but I'm sure they would love to have back a 22 year old ppg center.

3. Kessel was one of the few that actually showed frustration and emotion toward the end of the year (Getting mad at JVR during the Habs game, that recent article about how he needs to be better) Not to mention, he was chosen to the U.S Olympic team and if Burke believed he was a whiner, he would have gotten the Bobby Ryan treatment.

I used to think Kessel was a problem in terms of leadership but he has proved me wrong. He is not only the best player on the team but he is far from the locker-room problem. If I had to guess as to who the real problems in there are, it would be Phaneuf and maybe Lupul.

Phaneuf is fine in an assistant captain role but there is too much pressure on him when he's a captain. Either strip him of the C and give him the A or trade him if he doesn't want to give up the C.

 

[Faltorvo]

This is my speculation but I think Kessel is one of the whiners. If the Leafs wanted to build a team with Boston's model then having Kessel, as the one player they called out and eventually shipped out, as your leader to build around is obviously not the correct move. IMO trade him...

Also, where's that gif of kessel saying **** to phaneuf live during a game?

No no that's not hard proof

and you know those guy on HC they don't have a friggen clue, I mean they are miles away from the source and outside the loop.

some folks expect a player to come out and break one of the cardinal rules for them. or some are just here to tow the MLSE line.

No matter, all their denials of it ,won't change the facts on the ground.

 

[hullsy47]

If Grabovski and McArthur were mad enough to tell the media how much they hated Carlyle, it doesn't seem far-fetched to think that they didn't voice their opinions along with others to Nonis or other upper-management.

you dont always like your coach .....its easy to fire carlyle ,i cant wait to see if shanahan is on 1-1 meetings .if u dont think hes evaluated this leaf club around the league your mistaken,this team didnt compete ,from the captain down ,or the talent is way overated ,u dont get a kessel or jvr ...or cody franson ,,for that matter if their gm's thought theyd ever backcheck or were sound all round players ,i hope some of these guys ask shanny to be moved ......he ll do it if he can,a monkey can lead a team to the bottom 6 in the nhl

 

[Stats01]

1. Players swear all the time to each other during a game, it shows they care...

2. Boston traded a similar young player in Seguin for Eriksson. I know they have the best record in the league but I'm sure they would love to have back a 22 year old ppg center.

3. Kessel was one of the few that actually showed frustration and emotion toward the end of the year (Getting mad at JVR during the Habs game, that recent article about how he needs to be better) Not to mention, he was chosen to the U.S Olympic team and if Burke believed he was a whiner, he would have gotten the Bobby Ryan treatment.

I used to think Kessel was a problem in terms of leadership but he has proved me wrong. He is not only the best player on the team but he is far from the locker-room problem. If I had to guess as to who the real problems in there are, it would be Phaneuf and maybe Lupul.

Phaneuf is fine in an assistant captain role but there is too much pressure on him when he's a captain. Either strip him of the C and give him the A or trade him if he doesn't want to give up the C.

The problems are: Dion, Kadri, Lupul. That's just my opinion. I have a hard time believing anyone else in that locker room other than those three have the balls and the ignorance and attitude and ego to go into the GM's office and ***** about the coach. Another one could be Franson.

 

[Dreakmur]

3. Kessel was one of the few that actually showed frustration and emotion toward the end of the year

Was he upset that the team was losing, or that he wasn't scoring?

 

[Faltorvo]

1. Players swear all the time to each other during a game, it shows they care...

2. Boston traded a similar young player in Seguin for Eriksson. I know they have the best record in the league but I'm sure they would love to have back a 22 year old ppg center.

3. Kessel was one of the few that actually showed frustration and emotion toward the end of the year (Getting mad at JVR during the Habs game, that recent article about how he needs to be better) Not to mention, he was chosen to the U.S Olympic team and if Burke believed he was a whiner, he would have gotten the Bobby Ryan treatment.

I used to think Kessel was a problem in terms of leadership but he has proved me wrong. He is not only the best player on the team but he is far from the locker-room problem. If I had to guess as to who the real problems in there are, it would be Phaneuf and maybe Lupul.

Phaneuf is fine in an assistant captain role but there is too much pressure on him when he's a captain. Either strip him of the C and give him the A or trade him if he doesn't want to give up the C.

to the bolded ,I call utter shenanigans

if it happens as you say , surely you can post some clips for us,

it should only take you a few minutes to post up "this all the time occurrence."

I'd argue you would have one heck of a time even find 3 clips.

 

[Peace Frog]

Here's some of that love from this "tight knit group"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=MIayPfQ_Xgk

 

[johnny_rudeboy]

Was he upset that the team was losing, or that he wasn't scoring?

Isn't that the same thing

 

[Stats01]

you dont always like your coach .....its easy to fire carlyle ,i cant wait to see if shanahan is on 1-1 meetings .if u dont think hes evaluated this leaf club around the league your mistaken,this team didnt compete ,from the captain down ,or the talent is way overated ,u dont get a kessel or jvr ...or cody franson ,,for that matter if their gm's thought theyd ever backcheck or were sound all round players ,i hope some of these guys ask shanny to be moved ......he ll do it if he can,a monkey can lead a team to the bottom 6 in the nhl

Shanahan watched every single NHL game for the past few years, he probably knows more about certain teams than the actual GM. His job was to watch and keep track of every single game every single night. He knows this team probably inside and out already. And he's well connected obviously so he probably knows a thing or two about certain players. Trust me on this, he will make his mark soon enough. This guy is a winner and knows what it takes to win and he and Nonis will be that brain trust.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

So if I buy some national broadcast TV time, and say "Randy Carlyle is the best coach in the NHL" will you believe it?

agreed.

I'm not listening to pure speculation.

 

[Bluejaysfan*]

you dont always like your coach .....its easy to fire carlyle ,i cant wait to see if shanahan is on 1-1 meetings .if u dont think hes evaluated this leaf club around the league your mistaken,this team didnt compete ,from the captain down ,or the talent is way overated ,u dont get a kessel or jvr ...or cody franson ,,for that matter if their gm's thought theyd ever backcheck or were sound all round players ,i hope some of these guys ask shanny to be moved ......he ll do it if he can,a monkey can lead a team to the bottom 6 in the nhl

wtf...what does your comment have anything to do with what I posted.

 

[Peace Frog]

Shanahan watched every single NHL game for the past few years, he probably knows more about certain teams than the actual GM. His job was to watch and keep track of every single game every single night. He knows this team probably inside and out already. And he's well connected obviously so he probably knows a thing or two about certain players. Trust me on this, he will make his mark soon enough. This guy is a winner and knows what it takes to win and he and Nonis will be that brain trust.

I doubt Shanny watched every single game. He watched every single clip of a possible punishable offence that occurred, is all.

 

[Durkin67]

1. Players swear all the time to each other during a game, it shows they care...

2. Boston traded a similar young player in Seguin for Eriksson. I know they have the best record in the league but I'm sure they would love to have back a 22 year old ppg center.

3. Kessel was one of the few that actually showed frustration and emotion toward the end of the year (Getting mad at JVR during the Habs game, that recent article about how he needs to be better) Not to mention, he was chosen to the U.S Olympic team and if Burke believed he was a whiner, he would have gotten the Bobby Ryan treatment.

I used to think Kessel was a problem in terms of leadership but he has proved me wrong. He is not only the best player on the team but he is far from the locker-room problem. If I had to guess as to who the real problems in there are, it would be Phaneuf and maybe Lupul.

Phaneuf is fine in an assistant captain role but there is too much pressure on him when he's a captain. Either strip him of the C and give him the A or trade him if he doesn't want to give up the C.

I'm gonna guess Kadri is in the mix there somewhere. There are too many wannabe rock stars on this team for me. I still cringe at the thought of watching Dion on the 24/7 special putting all that effort into his wardrobe before taking the Bentley to the ACC. It would be nice to see that kind of attention to detail paid to his on-ice assignments.

Compare and contrast with the Red Wings blue collar lunch bucket and hard hat philosophy. I'm so sick of hearing the same crap for ten years about coaches and GM's being the problem while the seven and eight figure income earners get a free pass.

I'm not anti-Dion, but there is certainly a lack of focus here that is alarming.

As far as Kadri goes, I just think there's a lack of maturity and a definite ego issue as well as a penchant for stirring the pot. Not sure he's the most liked in the room, but that is only based on what I've read and heard.

As crazy as it sounds, I see Clarkson becoming a Shane Doan type of leader, and ultimately becoming captain.

I see Dion being dealt as well as Kadri and a few others.

 

[LeafSteel]

1. Players swear all the time to each other during a game, it shows they care...

2. Boston traded a similar young player in Seguin for Eriksson. I know they have the best record in the league but I'm sure they would love to have back a 22 year old ppg center.

3. Kessel was one of the few that actually showed frustration and emotion toward the end of the year (Getting mad at JVR during the Habs game, that recent article about how he needs to be better) Not to mention, he was chosen to the U.S Olympic team and if Burke believed he was a whiner, he would have gotten the Bobby Ryan treatment.

I used to think Kessel was a problem in terms of leadership but he has proved me wrong. He is not only the best player on the team but he is far from the locker-room problem. If I had to guess as to who the real problems in there are, it would be Phaneuf and maybe Lupul.

Phaneuf is fine in an assistant captain role but there is too much pressure on him when he's a captain. Either strip him of the C and give him the A or trade him if he doesn't want to give up the C.

Really good post. I don't think Burke would have touched Kessel either if he was a whiner, with all the talking Burke did about Blue and White Disease.

I think a lot of this tension will go when Carlyle goes. Let's be honest, when things don't go well, it makes it really easy to get pissed off at each other. When things are going well, it's very easy for things to go well too.

BB

 

[Peace Frog]

Really good post. I don't think Burke would have touched Kessel either if he was a whiner, with all the talking Burke did about Blue and White Disease.

I think a lot of this tension will go when Carlyle goes. Let's be honest, when things don't go well, it makes it really easy to get pissed off at each other. When things are going well, it's very easy for things to go well too.

BB

Does that go for Dion too?

 

[HamiltonNHL]

you don't have a major collapse like this without the leadership core having some problems.

Define: leadership core.
Define: the problems.
Prove: how the problems of the leadership core led to the Leafs collapse.

I think the Leafs did bad this year because our team isn't very good.
Spending $5,250,000 on Clarkson instead of getting a good defenceman = stupid.

 

[Bluejaysfan*]

Does that go for Dion too?

Well tbh that's different.

If you can acquire a guy like Phaneuf for minimal pieces you do it and ask questions later. On an Olympic roster where there are multiple worthy candidates, you can allot to have your specific selection process and what intangibles you want/don't want from the players you select.

 

[Bluejaysfan*]

Define: leadership core.
Define: the problems.
Prove: how the problems of the leadership core led to the Leafs collapse.

I think the Leafs did bad this year because our team isn't very good.
Spending $5,250,000 on Clarkson instead of getting a good defenceman = stupid.

leadership core: The group in the locker room which is usually made up of the main pieces of the franchise that other players look to in pressure situations and big games. Leadership core also involves what players do outside of the rink. You typically wouldn't want somebody who has behaviour problems to be part of your core leadership group.

Problems: making bone-headed plays in the big games. Phaneuf choosing to make a big hit or fight someone when the game is already lost, complaining to the GM about the coach, not showing up for the biggest games of the season.

 

[Mansfield]

this concept of "leadership" being some great, obvious thing that makes a world of difference is so dumb.

No team ever won a championship just with leadership. assemble a team full of the most talented players you can, and you'll probably be pretty good.

I find it funny that the role models for "leadership" and intangibles across the league are guys like Chara, Crosby, Toews, etc....guys who are, you know, pretty damn good players. Chicago hasn't won two cups in the last four years because toews is a good leader, they've won because he's a damn good player and has a damn good team surrounding him.

Why pickups like clarkson for "leadership", and paying Bolland way more than he's worth are so stupid...

 

[LeafSteel]

Does that go for Dion too?

PF, truth be told, I don't think Phaneuf is a whiner or indifferent.

I think he's a guy that may be a little too intense off the ice, and that can rub a lot of people the wrong way. All these guys have ego's, and if he's always walking around barking like 20 pounds of poo in a 5 pound bag, and playing poorly to boot, then he's going to piss off a lot of his team-mates.

BB

 

[Faltorvo]

Really good post. I don't think Burke would have touched Kessel either if he was a whiner, with all the talking Burke did about Blue and White Disease.

I think a lot of this tension will go when Carlyle goes. Let's be honest, when things don't go well, it makes it really easy to get pissed off at each other. When things are going well, it's very easy for things to go well too.

BB

How would BB know if he was/was not a whiner, was he in Bostons room?

Chi told BB hey this guys whiner?

 

[ForSpareParts*]

Define: leadership core.
Define: the problems.
Prove: how the problems of the leadership core led to the Leafs collapse.

I think the Leafs did bad this year because our team isn't very good.
Spending $5,250,000 on Clarkson instead of getting a good defenceman = stupid.

"The proof is in the pudding" my friend. The miserable collapse of the '13-14 season.



Which defenseman was available last July to sign at that price?

why do you need "problems" defined when you just witnessed an epic falling out of the playoff standings?