Sportsnet: Problems in the Leafs' dressing room

[Faltorvo]

I heard Dion and Schenn didn't get along, but do you have links to arguments with Versteeg and Aulie or is it just conjecture?

do you think that's the kind of stuff players and press that want access to the locker room consistently run around talking about?

This is a dangerous third rail topic.

Getting labelled a "RAT" can be very destructive to ones career.

 

[daveleaf]

I heard Dion and Schenn didn't get along, but do you have links to arguments with Versteeg and Aulie or is it just conjecture?

I heard about Aulie quite a bit. It was funny how the two made a decent pairing and all of a sudden fizzled.

 

[daveleaf]

It's all conjecture.

Although if there were the odd dispute, it certainly wouldn't make the Leafs unique to this, it happens all over the league.

It does happen everywhere but other teams seem to deal with it. In Toronto they just trade them away.

I saw the HBO thing once this winter and gazed at it as I was preparing dinner and the one thing that stood out to me was this. In Det their top players are workers, they don't care for the limelight, they care about results. In Tor, all Dion cared about, at least what was portrayed, was that he had his tux ready and driving his Bentley around. From that point on I soured on Dion. I look back at great leaders we had and other teams and none carried themselves like him. They are workers where Dion is a pretty boy.

You want to change the culture in Tor-it starts with him. The problem here is not Bozak and Kessel. They don't want the spotlight, they just want to be good players and good team mates. Problem here is Dion.

 

[Faltorvo]

You have to admit though, after taking Boston to game 7 and a couple of nice additions in the summer that this franchise was about to turn around. They have enough guys there to stand up to the board and all preach patience with Lieweuke, Shanahan and Nonis. We have some nice pieces and now we have to dwindle down a few players to get the rot out.

I believe, after a strong draft, that this team can become very competitive next year. It takes time. Great organizations, franchises and companies have always dealt with adversity. We have to stop going back to JFJ and Burke and focus on the now. If we don't, 47 years with turn into 75 really quick.

Well it's nearly impossible for "fans" to make a fully educated assessment of things"

There are so many key issues and pressure points and motivations that we will never be fully privy to.

To the privy, at best all we can do is try to glean from whispers, anecdotal evidence and despite the "words spoken" follow ones actions first and for most.

All I can say for "fact" is that once again the overall assessments that "the privy" made, where dead wrong.

 

[Mach85]

do you think that's the kind of stuff players and press that want access to the locker room consistently run around talking about?

This is a dangerous third rail topic.

Getting labelled a "RAT" can be very destructive to ones career.

Well, players aren't the only sources for this kind of information. Journalists have been breaking such stories for years.

 

[Faltorvo]

Well, players aren't the only sources for this kind of information. Journalists have been breaking such stories for years.

did you carefully read my entire post?

I talked about journalists.

if you think everything they see and know is "on the record", well , I know for fact it's different then that.

 

[diceman934]

This got Verstegg moved....it was also in Calgary and many Flames watched this and were laughing there heads off!

 

[Mach85]

did you carefully read my entire post?

I talked about journalists.

if you think everything they see and know is "on the record", well , I know for fact it's different then that.

Did you carefully read your entire post? You make it seem like these issues are kept under complete lock and key because of the consequences. Truth is, in a hockey-mad city like Toronto, if the team's star player has a legit beef with a teammate, especially one who is no longer with the team, someone is going to report it. There are ways of leaking it surreptitiously.

 

[daveleaf]

Well it's nearly impossible for "fans" to make a fully educated assessment of things"

There are so many key issues and pressure points and motivations that we will never be fully privy to.

To the privy, at best all we can do is try to glean from whispers, anecdotal evidence and despite the "words spoken" follow ones actions first and for most.

All I can say for "fact" is that once again the overall assessments that "the privy" made, where dead wrong.

I don't disagree with you. I just believe everyone is upset and maybe not separating the emotion from the situation. Things look bad right now, worse than they imagined. If Lieweuke and Shanny can get the scouting and drafting staff straightened away and we make a good pic with that first pic and have a solid draft things might get a lot more positive here quickly.

There are obviously a player(s) that undermined the coaching staff and moral of the team. They have to figure out who they are and removed them. Let's give them a shot.

You have to agree with this. Liewuke shy's away from no one. He admits fault and works hard to make it better. I hate where we are, I hate we haven't won a cup since 67. If this group of minds can't get it done than maybe no one can. I say we give them some space and respect and see what they can do.

 

[Faltorvo]

This got Verstegg moved....it was also in Calgary and many Flames watched this and were laughing there heads off!

very interesting

 

[ToneBone03]

 

[diceman934]

Did you carefully read your entire post? You make it seem like these issues are kept under complete lock and key because of the consequences. Truth is, in a hockey-mad city like Toronto, if the team's star player has a legit beef with a teammate, especially one who is no longer with the team, someone is going to report it. There are ways of leaking it surreptitiously.

That is not correct at all.....most reporters will not report spats between team mates as it was not part of an interview...they know that their job depends on gaining access to these individuals and reporting issues like these gets them bared from dressing room access. Do you not remember what happened this year with Big Joe this year? Many reporters heard what he said and one reporter reported it....yet that reporter was ripped on by other reporters, media types as breaking the code!

 

[Faltorvo]

I don't disagree with you. I just believe everyone is upset and maybe not separating the emotion from the situation. Things look bad right now, worse than they imagined. If Lieweuke and Shanny can get the scouting and drafting staff straightened away and we make a good pic with that first pic and have a solid draft things might get a lot more positive here quickly.

There are obviously a player(s) that undermined the coaching staff and moral of the team. They have to figure out who they are and removed them. Let's give them a shot.

You have to agree with this. Liewuke shy's away from no one. He admits fault and works hard to make it better. I hate where we are, I hate we haven't won a cup since 67. If this group of minds can't get it done than maybe no one can. I say we give them some space and respect and see what they can do.

I was taught respect is something that is earned , that does not mean, treat someone with disrespect till they have earned other wise..

I'm not pssd that they missed the playoffs , I have been emotionally detached from the team since the season Kessel lead them to 2nd last place.

I am disturbed by HOW they missed the playoffs again.

I am disturbed that DN though inking Dion to 7x7 was a good idea.

Same for Clarkson.

I am disturbed by the message being sent by holding onto all his UFAs at the TD, after shipping out 5 draft slots, 3 being consecutive 2nd round slots , all this with the back drop of what we have coming up in the system.

 

[Faltorvo]

That is not correct at all.....most reporters will not report spats between team mates as it was not part of an interview...they know that their job depends on gaining access to these individuals and reporting issues like these gets them bared from dressing room access. Do you not remember what happened this year with Big Joe this year? Many reporters heard what he said and one reporter reported it....yet that reporter was ripped on by other reporters, media types as breaking the code!

someone gets it.

 

[ACC1224]

It does happen everywhere but other teams seem to deal with it. In Toronto they just trade them away.

I saw the HBO thing once this winter and gazed at it as I was preparing dinner and the one thing that stood out to me was this. In Det their top players are workers, they don't care for the limelight, they care about results. In Tor, all Dion cared about, at least what was portrayed, was that he had his tux ready and driving his Bentley around. From that point on I soured on Dion. I look back at great leaders we had and other teams and none carried themselves like him. They are workers where Dion is a pretty boy.

You want to change the culture in Tor-it starts with him. The problem here is not Bozak and Kessel. They don't want the spotlight, they just want to be good players and good team mates. Problem here is Dion.

I didn't watch the show and the way he was portrayed may very well be the way he is, it could also be creative editing.

Couple things don't add up to me,
1) We hear about absolutely everything that goes on here but we haven't heard much about this.
2) Why did Nonis extend him then, when by all accounts he should have been shipped out?

 

[Mach85]

That is not correct at all.....most reporters will not report spats between team mates as it was not part of an interview...they know that their job depends on gaining access to these individuals and reporting issues like these gets them bared from dressing room access. Do you not remember what happened this year with Big Joe this year? Many reporters heard what he said and one reporter reported it....yet that reporter was ripped on by other reporters, media types as breaking the code!

You're right that at the time it occurs most reporters stay away from it. But after a player has moved on, it's not uncommon among some of the less respected journalists (Steve Simmons is one example of a reporter who has no problem doing so). Hell, Justin Bourne at Backhand Shelf recently shared that he's heard Bolland's off-ice life is in direct contradiction to his reputation as a leader. Bourne's a former player. If reporting these things is so taboo, you'd think he would refrain from doing so.

 

[Faltorvo]

That is not correct at all.....most reporters will not report spats between team mates as it was not part of an interview...they know that their job depends on gaining access to these individuals and reporting issues like these gets them bared from dressing room access. Do you not remember what happened this year with Big Joe this year? Many reporters heard what he said and one reporter reported it....yet that reporter was ripped on by other reporters, media types as breaking the code!

off the record

on the record

two totally different worlds and realities.

 

[TootooTrain]

I saw the HBO thing once this winter and gazed at it as I was preparing dinner and the one thing that stood out to me was this. In Det their top players are workers, they don't care for the limelight, they care about results. In Tor, all Dion cared about, at least what was portrayed, was that he had his tux ready and driving his Bentley around. From that point on I soured on Dion. I look back at great leaders we had and other teams and none carried themselves like him. They are workers where Dion is a pretty boy.

They don't care about the limelight because they play in detroit, they have no choice. Don't confuse work ethic with being sociable, which is what you're doing. And if Dion driving a bently in fancy clothes is all you took out of the HBO series, you must have only watched the commercials.

 

[diceman934]

I didn't watch the show and the way he was portrayed may very well be the way he is, it could also be creative editing.

Couple things don't add up to me,
1) We hear about absolutely everything that goes on here but we haven't heard much about this.
2) Why did Nonis extend him then, when by all accounts he should have been shipped out?

We do not hear much of what goes on with the Leafs between team mates etc. As explained above.

Why did Nonis sign him....he tried to trade him and was very close, but in the end did not pull the trigger, was it his decision? Nonis was put in difficult place of either ship him out, let him walk for nothing or resigning him. The Leaf organization chose to resign him....

If you have been paying attention this week it has been very clear that Tim felt that Nonis needed help and I do not believe that Nonis made any decision with out the permission of Tim....

 

[diceman934]

They don't care about the limelight because they play in detroit, they have no choice. Don't confuse work ethic with being sociable, which is what you're doing. And if Dion driving a bently in fancy clothes is all you took out of the HBO series, you must have only watched the commercials.

I also got that he was good at Ping Pong!

 

[diceman934]

off the record

on the record

two totally different worlds and realities.

Exactly....and why is it so hard for some to understand.

 

[ACC1224]

You're right that at the time it occurs most reporters stay away from it. But after a player has moved on, it's not uncommon among some of the less respected journalists (Steve Simmons is one example of a reporter who has no problem doing so). Hell, Justin Bourne at Backhand Shelf recently shared that he's heard Bolland's off-ice life is in direct contradiction to his reputation as a leader. Bourne's a former player. If reporting these things is so taboo, you'd think he would refrain from doing so.

That may have been the way with the Media(mostly print) in the past where being shut out by a Team would lose you your job.
In an age where bloggers can be considered media, things don't remain quiet. Getting these scoops is how you get yourself a name, seperate yourself from the pack.
No chance the multitudes who would have known of this would have kept it quiet.

 

[AINEC*]

Carlyle stole one of Phil's toaster strudles

 

[BiggestLeafsFanEVER*]

I would argue that DION had a greater responsibility to the organisation and his team mates to ink a more friendly contract.

He is our Captain, supposed leader and he was on that roster when he inked.

His cap hit and pay only serves Dion , it can be fairly argued, that cap hit really hurts the team he is "supposed to be leading toward a Stanley Cup and by example"

Clarkson was not part of the team at that time , he owed nothing and no allegiances to anyone , Nonis caved AGAIN and spent on a player who puts greed and selfserving at the top of the list.

ur probably right. but my point is clarkson isn't much of a leader himself. he can't have helped the culture he apparently didn't end up liking bc of his horrible play

 

[ShaneFalco]

Who knows what the deal is Phaneuf but wasn't he voted most over-rated by NHL players?
He's not well-liked outside of the team, it's not hard to imagine he commands much respect in it. Who knows for sure, but I'd like to see a change there. Even if it means they take a step-back next year