GWT: Premier League round 26

[Savant]

Either way the hypocrisy on here is obvious.

If Liverpool can’t score against the run of play or against a parked bus it’s their fault. By the way. Liverpool was much better than Tottenham in the first half and scored against the run of play in the second.

Tottenham gets a goal from Wanyama that he will unlikely score again and a penalty that was soft at best and they deserve the win. It’s a joke.

 

[Evilo]

Find a Salah still and post it.

If it’s a 50/50 dive it’s a 50/50 offsides and refs shouldn’t get to decide the games. Linesmen definitely shouldn’t get to decide the games either.

You know it’s not a penalty but you are on your soapbox because you and Curt have a rivalry. Just say it’s a bad call. If it was against your team or if it was a French defender instead of a Dutch defender you’d be up in arms. I try and call things down the middle as I can on here and I still cannot fathom how either call was a PK.

Have you even read what I wrote about that decision?
I've been consistant from the early goings : I don't call that a penalty. I explained why : contacts like this happen a thousand times a game.
I have not changed my mind a bit. Doesn't mean it's a dive. Dive would mean no contact. Look at Ronaldo's clip I posted.

So not a dive, and not a penalty. Offside? I have no idea, but LITN's still doesn't lead me to believe he is if anything.
I ALSO stated the first penalty wasn't a foul.

Not sure how you want me to say anything different.

 

[Live in the Now]

Tottenham gets a goal from Wanyama that he will unlikely score again and a penalty that was soft at best and they deserve the win. It’s a joke.

They didn't win.

If Liverpool can’t score against the run of play or against a parked bus it’s their fault. By the way. Liverpool was much better than Tottenham in the first half and scored against the run of play in the second.

Liverpool also couldn't play worse in terms of providing the final ball for easy created chances, they still got a point. There were so many chances for 1 v. 1 and Sanchez had a horrendous game. Salah was genuinely horrendous and scored twice which is even more crazy. There were lots of positives for the rest of the season though. For starters there were lots of opportunities for created chances that merely had poorly hit passes, and Spurs had just one scoring chance of any real value. Also the starting midfield is probably our best and it easily adapted to all phases of the game the last two matches. Absolutely nothing Karius could have done about the first goal as it was a hard hit cross that he did well to push out that far. Both penalties speak for themselves really.

 

[Evilo]

Either way the hypocrisy on here is obvious.

If Liverpool can’t score against the run of play or against a parked bus it’s their fault. By the way. Liverpool was much better than Tottenham in the first half and scored against the run of play in the second.

Tottenham gets a goal from Wanyama that he will unlikely score again and a penalty that was soft at best and they deserve the win. It’s a joke.

First half was 65% Spurs possession. They created nothing, but Pool parked the bus. Very well too but still parked the bus. Nobody thinks a team parking the bus deserves anything when you love football. Of course, them scoring early thanks to amateurish play by Spurs probably shaped the game into a handball game, possession/counter.
Second half, Liverpool started fine for 10 minutes and then parked the bus again, and it was only fair to see Spurs tie the game, after getting the best chance of the game thanks to an amateurish VVD mistake.
Then Salah scored a goal out of nowhere (Pool was trying to stay in the game frankly) in the dying minutes on a complete bogus defending by Vertonghen. That was highway robbery at that point.
Then that call I still disagree with. Which makes both teams think robbery was for the other team.

 

[Savant]

They didn't win.

Liverpool also couldn't play worse in terms of providing the final ball for easy created chances, they still got a point. There were so many chances for 1 v. 1 and Sanchez had a horrendous game. Salah was genuinely horrendous and scored twice which is even more crazy. There were lots of positives for the rest of the season though. For starters there were lots of opportunities for created chances that merely had poorly hit passes, and Spurs had just one scoring chance of any real value. Also the starting midfield is probably our best and it easily adapted to all phases of the game the last two matches. Absolutely nothing Karius could have done about the first goal as it was a hard hit cross that he did well to push out that far. Both penalties speak for themselves really.

And despite all of this Liverpool still should have “won” according to xG.

 

[Savant]

First half was 65% Spurs possession. They created nothing, but Pool parked the bus. Very well too but still parked the bus. Nobody thinks a team parking the bus deserves anything when you love football. Of course, them scoring early thanks to amateurish play by Spurs probably shaped the game into a handball game, possession/counter.
Second half, Liverpool started fine for 10 minutes and then parked the bus again, and it was only fair to see Spurs tie the game, after getting the best chance of the game thanks to an amateurish VVD mistake.
Then Salah scored a goal out of nowhere (Pool was trying to stay in the game frankly) in the dying minutes on a complete bogus defending by Vertonghen. That was highway robbery at that point.
Then that call I still disagree with. Which makes both teams think robbery was for the other team.

I disagree with most of this but it’s not worth arguing. I’m done here. Onto next week.

 

[Evilo]

I disagree with most of this but it’s not worth arguing. I’m done here. Onto next week.

I still don't get why you accuse me of anything regarding the penalty when I've always stated I felt it wasn't one.

 

[Live in the Now]

xG is a good stat but it doesn't count for chances that would have existed if a player wasn't being totally dumb. Liverpool had three or four of them. I think Tottenham had one. The one where Salah mis-hit a pass at the end of the first half had me completely furious. He already has more goals than Bale or Robben has ever scored in a season, but his standard has been so good that people are going to expect more than that. Actually can't believe how good a finisher he is given his reputation.

That all being said I'm glad Karius was in goal or Liverpool definitely would have lost. Plus, ultimately this game doesn't have much impact in the greater context of the rest of the season. Chelsea still has all hard fixtures left with the exception of Arsenal, plus CL, and I don't think their squad is good enough for that job.

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

I'm still convinced that it is Lovren's own fault for putting Kane onside by deliberately trying to clear the ball and f***ing up. I'm not entirely sure what to say about Kane's fall, haven't seen too great of an angle of it. As for the second penalty, Lamela may very well be offside but once again, lack of a great angle. This is the best angle to represent what the linesman saw of the foul though:



That looks stonewall to me.

I can understand why people are frustrated with Moss and his indecisiveness though.

 

[Live in the Now]

I'm still convinced that it is Lovren's own fault for putting Kane onside by deliberately trying to clear the ball and ****ing up. I'm not entirely sure what to say about Kane's fall, haven't seen too great of an angle of it. As for the second penalty, Lamela may very well be offside but once again, lack of a great angle. This is the best angle to represent what the linesman saw of the foul though:



That looks stonewall to me.

I can understand why people are frustrated with Moss and his indecisiveness though.

It's a lot less bad from there, but I'm still convinced of offside. Anyway, it probably doesn't matter that much. If both teams stay in form they'll meet their goals. Liverpool's mini-crisis was heavily overblown and Tottenham hasn't lost since mid-December. Maybe both teams have an impending injury crisis because that's really the only thing which will derail either of them that bad.

 

[Evilo]

I'm still convinced that it is Lovren's own fault for putting Kane onside by deliberately trying to clear the ball and ****ing up. I'm not entirely sure what to say about Kane's fall, haven't seen too great of an angle of it. As for the second penalty, Lamela may very well be offside but once again, lack of a great angle. This is the best angle to represent what the linesman saw of the foul though:



That looks stonewall to me.

I can understand why people are frustrated with Moss and his indecisiveness though.

Go to say, this angle looks like a penalty.
Not from the first live angle though.

 

[Live in the Now]

It's too bad that nobody's talking about the Salah goal, because goals like that against top teams and defenders people rate almost never happen. It's hard to compare him to anyone because wingers never score this many goals and are never this good of finishers. Those who are wind up immediately being turned into a striker, but he's obviously too small for that.

The only players with more goals in all comps from the big five leagues are Messi and Neymar, which isn't to say that Salah is as good as them, because he's played a few more games and until he scores against their team and beats them it's impossible to say that he's at absolute top level. The point is he's the signing of the season especially given price. Its also turned out that Roma collapsed offensively without him giving the ball to Dzeko, who won't finish anywhere near 39 goals this season. If their defense wasn't this good they'd clearly be in mid-table and they've only scored at the rate of a mid-table team. I don't know if Salah can hit another level from what he's done already this season, but probably not. I just hope he's around for a while. Only de Bruyne's been better in this league really.

 

[Evilo]

I'm not sure KDB has been better tbh. He is also on a totally dominant team that score goals at will and with heavy possession. He doesn't have to make the efforts players on other teams have to do.
Salah has IMO been the EPL player of the year so far.
Another proof is even when he sucks in a game, like he did today, he finishes with 2 goals. Though I'll stress again that both were incredible defensive mistakes.

 

[hersky77]

At the end of the day it was rough call but shit happens. These two teams will be in the top four come the end of the season. Chelsea will fall out.

 

[hatterson]

It's too bad that nobody's talking about the Salah goal, because goals like that against top teams and defenders people rate almost never happen. It's hard to compare him to anyone because wingers never score this many goals and are never this good of finishers. Those who are wind up immediately being turned into a striker, but he's obviously too small for that.

On the NBCSN post game they said it looked like a Messi goal. Not saying Salah=Messi or anything, but just the style where an undersized player gets the ball, somehow dribbles through a few defenders and makes another miss in a phone booth before scoring with finesse instead of power.

Wanyama’s might be “harder” to score, but I rate Salah’s goal much higher. Wanyama’s was more about taking a swing at it and having it be the one out of 20 attempts that works perfectly, whereas Salah’s goal was pure skill and taking advantage of the mistakes the defense made.

 

[Live in the Now]

On the NBCSN post game they said it looked like a Messi goal. Not saying Salah=Messi or anything, but just the style where an undersized player gets the ball, somehow dribbles through a few defenders and makes another miss in a phone booth before scoring with finesse instead of power.

This part makes me wonder how good he could have been if he was developed in a bigger football country. I don't have anything against Egypt or the club he was developed at, but he was developed at one of the worst clubs in their league. He has a lot of natural talent that still seems unrefined, specifically thinking of those final passes that he always sees and often hits too hard.

Putting it over the keeper from that close may have been the most difficult part.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

On the NBCSN post game they said it looked like a Messi goal. Not saying Salah=Messi or anything, but just the style where an undersized player gets the ball, somehow dribbles through a few defenders and makes another miss in a phone booth before scoring with finesse instead of power.

Wanyama’s might be “harder” to score, but I rate Salah’s goal much higher. Wanyama’s was more about taking a swing at it and having it be the one out of 20 attempts that works perfectly, whereas Salah’s goal was pure skill and taking advantage of the mistakes the defense made.

Salah's goal is definitely harder... those long shots that are half luck are more occurring as opposed of beating 5/6 players and chipping the keeper. That's legit talent.

This part makes me wonder how good he could have been if he was developed in a bigger football country. I don't have anything against Egypt or the club he was developed at, but he was developed at one of the worst clubs in their league. He has a lot of natural talent that still seems unrefined, specifically thinking of those final passes that he always sees and often hits too hard.

Putting it over the keeper from that close may have been the most difficult part.

Oh, that's definitely true, poorer countries that have subpar facilities/coaching in comparison to the elite nations. It's not a lack of talent or players, its development. Really sad when you think about it.

 

[hatterson]

Salah's goal is definitely harder... those long shots that are half luck are more occurring as opposed of beating 5/6 players and chipping the keeper. That's legit talent.

What I meant is that if you put Salah in that spot 20 times he probably scores more than once.

If you had Wanyama, or really anyone, line up that shot and hit it that hard, you *might* get one out of every 50 or so shots that’s hit with that kind of pace and positioning.

There’s no doubt that Salah’s goal is more about skill and Wanyama’s is more about just taking a swing and hoping.

 

[YNWA14]

I don't understand that view. A long shot generally needs perfect technique (replicatable or not) while generally a goal where someone dribbles through 3 or more players (usually) relies on defensive mistakes. Yeah it takes skill to control the ball and confidence to attempt it but I think long shot goals (as long as theyre not deflected or misread by the keeper) to be nicer.

 

[Live in the Now]

Those defensive mistakes on dribble goals are created by the attacker being awesome. A power drive is great but when players like Jagielka score them well it shows how much skill you need.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Those defensive mistakes on dribble goals are created by the attacker being awesome. A power drive is great but when players like Jagielka score them well it shows how much skill you need.

Exactly what I thought of when I read that. You would think an LFC fan would remember that lol.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

What I meant is that if you put Salah in that spot 20 times he probably scores more than once.

If you had Wanyama, or really anyone, line up that shot and hit it that hard, you *might* get one out of every 50 or so shots that’s hit with that kind of pace and positioning.

There’s no doubt that Salah’s goal is more about skill and Wanyama’s is more about just taking a swing and hoping.

Not sure if you quoted me by accident but I agree with you?

 

[Live in the Now]

Exactly what I thought of when I read that. You would think an LFC fan would remember that lol.

Don't remember ever being more angry after a goal than that one. I knew immediately at that point that the whole rest of the season was going to be a pile of trash. One of the least skilled players in the whole league scoring that says it all as far as this conversation goes.

Carragher nearly scored one in his last game too.

 

[Burner Account]

Not even kidding, Phil Jagielka at the Kop end is the first thing that comes to mind when I hear the word “screamer”.

 

[YNWA14]

Did you watch the first half at all?

Last year's game against Spurs Liverpool conceded a massive pile of possession in the second half because the chances were finished and it was 2-0. Your memory is not very good.

They have to play defensively because Coutinho is gone. It would have been 2-0 or 3-0 if he was there and game over, but you think they don't need him. Lol.

Took my time to address this because I've been out today, but this is a load of crock. Last season we outshot Spurs 12 to 4...they had 1 shot on goal that game, we had 8. We had 57% possession and Coutinho did absolutely nothing in that game (in fact, the nicest outlet of the game came from Wijnaldum to spring Mane for his first goal) Liverpool FC - Tottenham Hotspur, Feb 11, 2017 - Premier League - Statistics. Today? We had 34% possession, and were outshot 13 to 9, (6 to 3 on target).

Hell, even in the away game last season we had more possession (52%), more chances, and attacked throughout (and Coutinho didn't do anything, again).

No, this was a feeble performance by us, and Coutinho had nothing to do with it. But maybe you don't have a very good memory.