GWT: Premier League round 26

[Baxterman]

Look at the table buddy.

Just did, whats the point?

I have talked all season long how pathetic it is that Spurs are outside the top 4 with how weak the teams ahead of them are. You pointing out that we are in 5th only reinforces it.

 

[hatterson]

I was so pissed after seeing us throw away 2 easy points but seeing all the crying from Liverpool fans about the two legit calls is worth it.

Their team was by far the 2nd best team out there and deservingly lost but all they focus on is the calls. The best thing is with Klopps refusal to take responsibility for his teams losses you know he will focus on the calls and not the terrible play again from his defenders and goalie.

Yet somehow despite spurs being “by far” the better team, their best chances were an incredible individual strike that created a goal out of basically nothing, an offside that wasn’t called leading to a penalty, and another penalty that, even though I agree with it, is debatable.

Neither team really “deserved” 3 points.

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

Yet somehow despite spurs being “by far” the better team, their best chances were an incredible individual strike that created a goal out of basically nothing, an offside that wasn’t called leading to a penalty, and another penalty that, even though I agree with it, is debatable.

Neither team really “deserved” 3 points.

Kane wasn't offside considering that Lovren deliberately tried playing it.

But I agree that neither team deserved 3 points.

 

[hatterson]

Define “help”.

This is why VAR is coming.

The assistant told Moss he saw a penalty. Moss 100% has the authority to tell him to go stuff it and stay with his own call. The assistant has absolutely no ability to enforce a call or even stop play.

The assistant.can be waving his flag all day long and yelling stonewall, Moss doesn’t *have* to do anything about it. He *chose* to go with his assistants call over his initial judgement. That’s fundamentally different than him being overruled.

 

[Baxterman]

Yet somehow despite spurs being “by far” the better team, their best chances were an incredible individual strike that created a goal out of basically nothing, an offside that wasn’t called leading to a penalty, and another penalty that, even though I agree with it, is debatable.

Neither team really “deserved” 3 points.

Spurs were not great, I pointed that out but they were without a doubt better and more deerving.

And again that goal was not offside at all. They got a goal and 2 legit penalties. Liverpool had a gift goal from Spurs and a fluke goal. Spurs may not have created much but they created a whole lot more than Liverpool.

 

[Savant]

The assistant told Moss he saw a penalty. Moss 100% has the authority to tell him to go stuff it and stay with his own call. The assistant has absolutely no ability to enforce a call or even stop play.

The assistant.can be waving his flag all day long and yelling stonewall, Moss doesn’t *have* to do anything about it. He *chose* to go with his assistants call over his initial judgement. That’s fundamentally different than him being overruled.

I disagree. If the head of the team says it’s not a penalty, then his subordinates shouldn’t be able to change his mind without definitive proof. But again that is why VAR is coming.

 

[hatterson]

Kane wasn't offside considering that Lovren deliberately tried playing it.

But I agree that neither team deserved 3 points.

Kane affected Lovren’s play. It’s not even a debatable offside.

If Kane was standing on the goal line just waiting and then Lovren botched the clearance he might have a claim to not impacting the play, but given where he’s standing he impacts the play, regardless of how he’s moving or standing.

 

[Live in the Now]

Kane also took a dive. Seen players at my club do it loads of times so I know what it looks like. Besides the dive and the offside it was definitely a penalty.

 

[les Habs]

Seeing that Lamela play again in the scheme of the whole play and not just the bit where the contact was made, Lamela definitely looking for it even more than I previously thought. Still a lot for the linesman to digest there and with the benefit of multiple replays it's easier for us to comment. Either way I don't think the linesman is celebrating for Spurs or something as that one post suggests. Seems to me he's celebrating because the ref agreed with him and the call he thinks is correct is made in the end.

I'm a little more worried by Mane because he had another mid-table level performance and has been doing that all season. Parking the bus was a result of failed final balls that should have resulted in two or three goals. There was one at the end of the first half that was horrendous and would have been an automatic 2-0. Probably would have killed the game right there.

To be fair I didn't catch the first half. That said Liverpool have the quality (though some of it looked to be on the bench) to actually have more possession so that they don't have to park the bus like that. And it probably helps them too because they Spurs, who are trailing for much of that time, are left chasing the ball and thus tiring out.

I forgot your level was set by stuff like this:

By "level" I meant the actual level of your team. You see, this is our level compared to your lot, and this is only a smidge of the difference:





Kind of hilarious posted that and then someone posted Ronaldo. And don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that because you're a huge Ronaldo fanboy despite the fact that he dumped United at the first chance he had.

I mean, it’s slightly funny to me to see a United fan call out Barca for diving. Maybe the irony is lost on some.

Well I think you have to consider the source. Teenage girls tend to overreact and say stupid things.

 

[hatterson]

Kane also took a dive. Seen players at my club do it loads of times so I know what it looks like. Besides the dive and the offside it was definitely a penalty.

Yea I mentioned that right after the call. It’s jot a dive per se becuase there’s contact, but when Kane is going in, he’s fundamentally not trying to play on a way to score, he’s trying to position his body and leave his leg in such a way that contact happens.

His goal there is fundamentally to draw a penalty, not to try to score on the play.

 

[Live in the Now]

Yea I mentioned that right after the call. It’s jot a dive per se becuase there’s contact, but when Kane is going in, he’s fundamentally not trying to play on a way to score, he’s trying to position his body and leave his leg in such a way that contact happens.

His goal there is fundamentally to draw a penalty, not to try to score on the play.

The giveaway is that he could easily land on his left foot and decides to throw it up in the air instead. From the other angle I can't even tell if Lovren touches the ball but I don't want to get into that.

 

[Evilo]

Yet somehow despite spurs being “by far” the better team, their best chances were an incredible individual strike that created a goal out of basically nothing, an offside that wasn’t called leading to a penalty, and another penalty that, even though I agree with it, is debatable.

Neither team really “deserved” 3 points.

And a one on one on Karius completely botched by Son.

 

[hersky77]

I don’t know why any one responds to baxtemans posts. He has rose coloured glasses for Spurs. And has some pent up aggression towards Liverpool.

Anything he says shouldn’t be taken seriously.

 

[Evilo]

I disagree. If the head of the team says it’s not a penalty, then his subordinates shouldn’t be able to change his mind without definitive proof. But again that is why VAR is coming.

That's really not how it works.
Refs form a team. Assistant is SUPPOSED to tell "hey, there was a foul". Central ref either says "I saw it, not worth a pen" or trust his linesman.

 

[hatterson]

I disagree. If the head of the team says it’s not a penalty, then his subordinates shouldn’t be able to change his mind without definitive proof. But again that is why VAR is coming.

Again, you need to look up the definition of overrule. The assistant said “that’s a pen” and moss said “I’ll trust your judgement instead of mine.”

Maybe moss was on the edge and his assistant pushed him over it? Maybe he felt he didn’t have a good view?

Using input from the assistant is literally what referees are trained and told to do.

You can absolutely argue that the assistant shouldn’t have made the suggestion, or that Moss should have ignored it, but thats fundamentally not the same as Moss being overruled.

 

[Baxterman]

I don’t know why any one responds to baxtemans posts. He has rose coloured glasses for Spurs. And has some pent up aggression towards Liverpool.

Anything he says shouldn’t be taken seriously.

Rose colored glasses? I have criticized them all day, and all season according to Big Kahuna.

And I just call it how it is with the garbage that is Liverpool.

 

[Live in the Now]

And I just call it how it is with the garbage that is Liverpool.

So what does it say that Spurs are worse? Wonder what you'll think when Kane and Poch piss off to Madrid.

 

[Savant]

The assistant told Moss he saw a penalty. Moss 100% has the authority to tell him to go stuff it and stay with his own call. The assistant has absolutely no ability to enforce a call or even stop play.

The assistant.can be waving his flag all day long and yelling stonewall, Moss doesn’t *have* to do anything about it. He *chose* to go with his assistants call over his initial judgement. That’s fundamentally different than him being overruled.

I don’t agree the ref said it wasn’t a pen and then let the lineman change his mind. The ref should have authority. When the ref allows himself to be second guessed by his subordinates it’s a bigger problem. You are painting this in a very flowery way but the ref let his linesman decide the game. Period.

 

[Chimaera]

It’s what it is, I’m disappointed, but I do feel on the whole Liverpool will get their share of calls.

Liverpool have gotten most of their tough matches out of the way and it will be on them to get points against the bottom. The season is on them.

 

[Savant]

That's really not how it works.
Refs form a team. Assistant is SUPPOSED to tell "hey, there was a foul". Central ref either says "I saw it, not worth a pen" or trust his linesman.

But the ref didn’t call a pen. And the pen wasn’t called until way after the fact. Let’s not revise history. The ball was cleared out of danger before Moss changed his mind.

But again. VAR is coming.

 

[Baxterman]

So what does it say that Spurs are worse? Wonder what you'll think when Kane and Poch piss off to Madrid.

Its says that they have had an awful season.

I am sure they will plod along like they did when Bale left and Modric left.

Edit: As for Spurs being worse they are 2 points back with a number of games to play. Still alive in the FA Cup, light years more impressive in the Champions League and coming of multiple season recently of finishing ahead of Liverpool.

So if you want to look at the table right now sure Liverpool are ahead but if you look at the form and talent not just this year but overall I think it is clear that Spurs are much better both now and going forward.

 

[Savant]

Again, you need to look up the definition of overrule. The assistant said “that’s a pen” and moss said “I’ll trust your judgement instead of mine.”

Maybe moss was on the edge and his assistant pushed him over it? Maybe he felt he didn’t have a good view?

Using input from the assistant is literally what referees are trained and told to do.

You can absolutely argue that the assistant shouldn’t have made the suggestion, or that Moss should have ignored it, but thats fundamentally not the same as Moss being overruled.

I disagree. Moss said no. Assistant said yes. Overruled.

I’m not changing my mind on this. Moss is consistently weak as a ref too.

 

[Live in the Now]

I don’t agree the ref said it wasn’t a pen and then let the lineman change his mind. The ref should have authority. When the ref allows himself to be second guessed by his subordinates it’s a bigger problem. You are painting this in a very flowery way but the ref let his linesman decide the game. Period.

Klopp disagrees.

 

[hatterson]

I disagree. Moss said no. Assistant said yes. Overruled.

I’m not changing my mind on this. Moss is consistently weak as a ref too.

If you want to keep living in complete delusion, then I guess go ahead.

 

[Baxterman]

But the ref didn’t call a pen. And the pen wasn’t called until way after the fact. Let’s not revise history. The ball was cleared out of danger before Moss changed his mind.

But again. VAR is coming.

VAR isn't changing either of those calls because on review those were both 100% penalties.

Keep crying about VAR all you want but it doesn't change anything today if it is in place.