Premier League 2019-20 part II

[hatterson]

I think Shearer has to be in the first class. After that it’s between Giggs and Henry if you’re gonna limit it to a 2 person class, both of it’s a 3 person.

Managerially it’s Sir Alex followed by Wenger. Off the top of my head none of the other title winning managers spent enough time in the PL to deserve a half of fame spot yet, regardless of how good they were, so after that you’re at guys like Redknapp or Moyes and I’m not sure if I’m up for them being in the hall of fame or not.

 

[Havre]

Managers is a bit more tricky if you are only going to include retires ones. Quite a few that should go in before Redknapp and Moyes - even if there will be quite a drop after Wenger in any case. Obviously Mourinho and Benitez will be in at some point (I say obviously without having read the requirements).

Henry is probably the best PL player ever so it is a bit strange not to take him first, but Shearer scored more goals and Giggs had a far longer career so...

 

[Chimaera]

You're also going to get a bit of a push to put someone from United. I realize that's a bit obtuse, but they did win a boat load of trophies, and it's kinda fitting to put the most lauded player in.

 

[Havre]

They will probably go full VAR on this anyway. Steve Bruce and Robert Lee.

 

[Vancouver Canucks]

Liverpool loses against Watford. What a misfortune.

 

[hatterson]

Managers is a bit more tricky if you are only going to include retires ones. Quite a few that should go in before Redknapp and Moyes - even if there will be quite a drop after Wenger in any case. Obviously Mourinho and Benitez will be in at some point (I say obviously without having read the requirements).

Henry is probably the best PL player ever so it is a bit strange not to take him first, but Shearer scored more goals and Giggs had a far longer career so...

Jose makes sense, won a bunch of hardware, multiple top teams, IIRC top 5 in games and wins.

I'd put Benitez in the same category as Redknapp and Moyes in terms of the PL. Accumulated a decent amount of games and wins (although less than the other two) but didn't have much success in the PL. Granted if you include continental success that should put him over the edge.

Shearer over Henry is simply due to the difference in length of career in the PL. Shearer played almost double the amount of time as Henry did. Similar to Giggs who doesn't really have an argument for being a elite peak player, but was consistently very good for 2 decades and obviously has a truckload of team hardware.

 

[Savant]

Liverpool loses against Watford. What a misfortune.

For the media. Yes.

This is no worse than any other loss to me. There are dozens of other LFC losses that struck me more than this. Only the Arsenal fans will have a lasting memory of that game.

 

[Vancouver Canucks]

For the media. Yes.

This is no worse than any other loss to me. There are dozens of other LFC losses that struck me more than this. Only the Arsenal fans will have a lasting memory of that game.

I just seriously wanted Liverpool to finish the season with no losses. My dream didn't come true.

 

[Savant]

I just seriously wanted Liverpool to finish the season with no losses. My dream didn't come true.

Would have been nice but not high on the priority list

 

[Vancouver Canucks]

Would have been nice but not high on the priority list

For you, at least.

 

[Stray Wasp]

Shearer over Henry is simply due to the difference in length of career in the PL. Shearer played almost double the amount of time as Henry did. Similar to Giggs who doesn't really have an argument for being a elite peak player, but was consistently very good for 2 decades and obviously has a truckload of team hardware.

Shearer was one of the best strikers in European football from 93 to 97, and was considered pretty much the consensus best European striker (as opposed to 'striker playing in Europe') of 96-97. Aged 26 at the end of that season, he then suffered a severe injury (he simultaneously tore his ankle ligaments and broke a leg - his favoured shooting foot, his right, was left hanging loose and facing the opposite way that it should have been). It forced him utterly to reinvent his game at what might otherwise have been his peak.

Alas, he tends to be remembered for his Newcastle seasons after that injury, left less mobile and with reduced pace, rather than in his Blackburn pomp, when he was nigh-on unplayable. Still, between 1999 and 2006 he managed a further three 20 goal seasons. During that period only Van Nistelrooy and Henry, six and seven years younger respectively, healthier and blessed with far superior supporting casts, did better.

By all means rate Henry over Shearer, but I'd dispute the claim that there's a vast gap between their peak EPL seasons - and Shearer's longevity deserves immense respect. The hard miles he put in up until just short of 36 saddled with such as Boumsong, Bowyer and Bramble for teammates cuts a stark contrast to Henry swanning off to the MLS aged 32 for a spot of flat-track bullying.

Shearer was indisputably the best player on a title winning team. I'm unsure there's any season where you can say that of Giggs. Henry was the star of the 03-04 Invincibles, but was he the clear best player on Arsenal 01-02? I'm not so sure.

And Henry carries the slight indignity of being part of the Arsenal team of 2002-3 that should have won the league, but sloppily failed to - a result that I'd maintain that had dismal consequences for the Gunners because it missed the chance to make Alex Ferguson yesterday's man.

 

[hatterson]

Shearer was one of the best strikers in European football from 93 to 97, and was considered pretty much the consensus best European striker (as opposed to 'striker playing in Europe') of 96-97. Aged 26 at the end of that season, he then suffered a severe injury (he simultaneously tore his ankle ligaments and broke a leg - his favoured shooting foot, his right, was left hanging loose and facing the opposite way that it should have been). It forced him utterly to reinvent his game at what might otherwise have been his peak.

Alas, he tends to be remembered for his Newcastle seasons after that injury, left less mobile and with reduced pace, rather than in his Blackburn pomp, when he was nigh-on unplayable. Still, between 1999 and 2006 he managed a further three 20 goal seasons. During that period only Van Nistelrooy and Henry, six and seven years younger respectively, healthier and blessed with far superior supporting casts, did better.

By all means rate Henry over Shearer, but I'd dispute the claim that there's a vast gap between their peak EPL seasons - and Shearer's longevity deserves immense respect. The hard miles he put in up until just short of 36 saddled with such as Boumsong, Bowyer and Bramble for teammates cuts a stark contrast to Henry swanning off to the MLS aged 32 for a spot of flat-track bullying.

Shearer was indisputably the best player on a title winning team. I'm unsure there's any season where you can say that of Giggs. Henry was the star of the 03-04 Invincibles, but was he the clear best player on Arsenal 01-02? I'm not so sure.

And Henry carries the slight indignity of being part of the Arsenal team of 2002-3 that should have won the league, but sloppily failed to - a result that I'd maintain that had dismal consequences for the Gunners because it missed the chance to make Alex Ferguson yesterday's man.

Just to be clear my "doesn't really have an argument for being an elite peak player" was supposed to be applied only to Giggs, not to shearer.

Shearer is, to me, the top of the list due to both peak performance and longevity. You can certainly debate peaks for him vs Henry (queue certain posters on here going nuts)

Then it's Henry vs. Giggs for #2 and that's where you get the debate between a shorter peak that's unquestionably better (again Giggs vs. Henry, not including Shearer) vs. a career that was at a top but not world class level for nearly 3 times as long.

 

[robertmac43]

Brighton's problems explained

*Sighs*

 

[Stray Wasp]

Just to be clear my "doesn't really have an argument for being an elite peak player" was supposed to be applied only to Giggs, not to shearer.

Shearer is, to me, the top of the list due to both peak performance and longevity. You can certainly debate peaks for him vs Henry (queue certain posters on here going nuts)

Then it's Henry vs. Giggs for #2 and that's where you get the debate between a shorter peak that's unquestionably better (again Giggs vs. Henry, not including Shearer) vs. a career that was at a top but not world class level for nearly 3 times as long.

I stand corrected!

 

[YNWA14]

For AB13



This guy really doesn’t like Henry.

 

[robertmac43]

Makes me laugh and cry at the same time...

 

[bleedblue1223]

He was banned from matches for 3 years. I do find it funny though that some on twitter were wanting prison time.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

His defense should've been bringing passion to the atmosphere. I know a few people on here who arent going to like this. LOL

 

[bleedblue1223]

I thought that was actually a decent defense, even if that guy thinks it's remarkable. It's believable, admit you were an a-hole, just not a racist a-hole lol.

 

[Aladyyn]

For AB13



This guy really doesn’t like Henry.

Honestly that is pretty damning lol

 

[bleedblue1223]

Wait, Henry really never scored at Stamford Bridge once Abramovich took over?

And his 1 goal at Old Trafford was in a 6-1 loss.

 

[AB13]

For AB13



This guy really doesn’t like Henry.

I know you just want me to take the bait and go on a massive rant but I have to set the record straight whenever someone speaks such trash about my clubs legends. Some stats tell a very different story, most underrated of all time in my extremely biased opinion.

Premier League all time single season assist leader with 20

Most Premier League golden boots: 5

Fourth all time highest PL goalscorer in far less games than everyone above him

The second highest goals per minute ratio in EPL history along with his incredible assist numbers

Only player to score 20+ goals in 5 successive Premier League seasons ( Drogba, the man he dares to compare Henry to, only scored more than 12 goals twice despite playing more seasons than the GOAT of English football).

44 goal contributions in the Premier League in 2002-03, the most by a player in a Premier League season ever, with an incredible 24 goals and 20 assists, of every player to hit over 15 assists in a PL season only Lampard hit as much as 10 goals ( 2004-05).

France all time record goalscorer

Winner of the treble at Barca, winner of two Premier Leagues at Arsenal, an invincible season, World Cup winner at 20 in 1998 while being the top scorer for France at the tournament, winner of the Euros in 2000 while being the top scorer for France at the tournament once again.

Henry was the ultimate complete forward, among the best in the world looking at pace, technique, skill, physique, off the ball movement, finishing, vision and passing. He is the most technically gifted player I have ever seen in the Premier League and I mostly remember an older Henry, while being a lethal finisher. His big game performances were often clutch and important, like his flick up for a volley in a possible title decider against United, his hattrick and solo goal against Liverpool, his long ranger against United in 03-04, his game winning world cup QF goal against Brazil, and his magestic performance against Inter at the San Siro to get the us through in the CL.

Henry is right up there in the discussion for best striker in football history, although I would probably give it to Pele or fat Ronaldo ( although he doesn't come close to the longevity of Henry).

 

[bleedblue1223]

Yeah, but not goals at Stamford Bridge during Abramovich era.

 

[Wee Baby Seamus]

main thing i took from that thread was being reminded that salomon kalou started in the f***ing ucl final for us (a fact i forget extremely extremely often)

 

[Halladay]

main thing i took from that thread was being reminded that salomon kalou started in the f***ing ucl final for us (a fact i forget extremely extremely often)

So did Ryan Bertand. Wow.