Premier League 2019-20 part II

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Jersey Fresh

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Feb 23, 2004
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Sure, I don't "understand the concepts of general society". What a hilariously meaningless allegation. Your problem is in whatever right-wing ecosystem you get your news, you've been led to believe that a majority thinks like you do ("personal freedoms!"), when in fact it's exactly the opposite based on national polling, certainly in the US and I'd imagine in Canada as well. It's not a hard concept - if you try to open up the economy when the virus is still rippling through the community, you just end up making both situations worse. How well do you think businesses will operate when employees start getting sick left and right? It's such common sense stuff, that I can't even wrap my head around why it's so hard for some people to understand. If having the #1 goal of minimizing people dying is a "leftist" approach, then so be it.

Nobody's calling it a black and white situation, but I know strawmanning like that is a popular tactic in your circles (just like talking about "way bigger issues in the world" in the middle of a global pandemic). If you cite car accident deaths next, you'll hit the boomer bingo. You and a lot of others are still fixated on asking when this will be over, when the real question is what the new normal will look like when it is, and how long it will take to get there.

And what's really amazing is you pointing to the "limited" mortality rates directly related to mitigation procedures as an argument that they aren't needed. Like that's some through the looking glass stuff. Crazy.
 
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Stray Wasp

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May 5, 2009
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the major problem is that societies, be it local or national, that have had success re-opening had complex plans In place. The US nor the UK seem to have that at this stage. And that’s the issue.

The UK government will never have a complex plan for exiting lockdown, just as it hasn't had a complex plan at any stage up to now.

The public isn't interested in complexity either - it is fuelled by emotion (which is why the lockdown enjoys widespread support in opinion polls, yet every time I go out I see indications of a casual indifference to basic principles of social distancing from an overwhelming majority of people I encounter - to say nothing of their indifference to basic principles of good health since time immemorial. When a pollster asks you if you support the lockdown, one's antenna switches on: one understands the need to present oneself to the pollster as a Good Person. It's only the effort of a few moments, after all. Mouth a platitude about how marvellous the NHS is - another brief, painless recital into which the population is well-drilled- and the litany is completed. For a couple or a pair of friends to walk in single file to preserve a 2m space between themselves and other people on the pavement, by contrast, requires thinking of other people consistently, and that's far too much effort. In the same spirit, people will encroach on your space because they veer off a straight course from the distraction of looking at their phones - because what is curbing a pandemic in comparison to the Pavlovian urge to respond to a notification?)

The government is fuelled by the desire to avoid having to make any decision at all. Fundamentally, though, it still believes above all in herd immunity - it came out earlier in the week they are still allowing 15,000 people to fly into the country daily without carrying out health checks. At least two of the five tests announced this week that must be met in order to exit lockdown are usefully vague.

Public panic brought about the beginnings of a lockdown, which opened a crack for the government to formalise the policy when the projections indicated a death toll so big even the Prime Minister's 'Boris' act couldn't distract from it. A peak in the public's fear of the virus / boredom is what the government is seeking signs of for them to be able safely to call the lockdown off. (I mean 'safely' from a political point of view, you understand).

And if NUFC is taken over by the Saudis - long time 'allies' of the UK - you can bet they'll lobby for football to resume as quickly as possible.
 
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YNWA14

Onbreekbaar
Dec 29, 2010
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Sure, I don't "understand the concepts of general society". What a hilariously meaningless allegation. Your problem is in whatever right-wing ecosystem you get your news, you've been led to believe that a majority thinks like you do ("personal freedoms!"), when in fact it's exactly the opposite based on national polling, certainly in the US and I'd imagine in Canada as well. It's not a hard concept - if you try to open up the economy when the virus is still rippling through the community, you just end up making both situations worse. How well do you think businesses will operate when employees start getting sick left and right? It's such common sense stuff, that I can't even wrap my head around why it's so hard for some people to understand. If having the #1 goal of minimizing people dying is a "leftist" approach, then so be it.

National polling is your source as opposed to this imaginary "right wing media" I follow, or some circle I'm just supposed to be a part of? I get the impression that you don't actually know a lot of people outside of the internet. That's fine, but your reality is a bit warped there. The thing is with widespread testing they're finding more and more people that get it and aren't sick at all, again, the vast majority of people that get COVID-19 have mild to no symptoms. 4% of cases require hospitalization or are considered 'critical'. This isn't something that would be crippling the economy if it were running as normal, or with some kind of protective measures in place.

Nobody's calling it a black and white situation, but I know strawmanning like that is a popular tactic in your circles (just like talking about "way bigger issues in the world" in the middle of a global pandemic). If you cite car accident deaths next, you'll hit the boomer bingo. You and a lot of others are still fixated on asking when this will be over, when the real question is what the new normal will look like when it is, and how long it will take to get there.

Ah, right, 'boomer'. This'll be my last response to you; you can get back to 4chan and avocado toast, while being outraged about everything and continuing to do absolutely nothing.

And what's really amazing is you pointing to the "limited" mortality rates directly related to mitigation procedures as an argument that they aren't needed. Like that's some through the looking glass stuff. Crazy.

So the mortality rate has already been affected by social distancing measures that basically just came into effect, according to everyone isn't being done properly, that most people are ignoring or not following so they've actually had to legislate fines, jail time, etc. and banning of even use of greenspace while respecting social distancing limits. So what is it the governments are completely incompetent and not doing enough or they're already turning the tide with last ditch measures and 0 preparation? Don't answer that, it's cool, you know what's best I'm a 'boomer' so let's just leave it at that. The best part is yammering on about straw men while citing arguments I've never made (I'll let you figure that out). The world is doomed if it opens up again soon, so let's just all hope it doesn't and maybe we can keep this going until a vaccine is ready, what could go wrong?
 

Jersey Fresh

Video Et Taceo
Feb 23, 2004
26,154
9,093
T.A.
Lol Jesus, okay...

National polling is your source as opposed to this imaginary "right wing media" I follow, or some circle I'm just supposed to be a part of? I get the impression that you don't actually know a lot of people outside of the internet. That's fine, but your reality is a bit warped there. The thing is with widespread testing they're finding more and more people that get it and aren't sick at all, again, the vast majority of people that get COVID-19 have mild to no symptoms. 4% of cases require hospitalization or are considered 'critical'. This isn't something that would be crippling the economy if it were running as normal, or with some kind of protective measures in place.
National polling isn't the only source, but it certainly helps when talking about public sentiment. Especially when you're arguing against...what exactly? Shrieking about the economy and whining about "personal freedoms"? Which one do you believe in more, out of curiosity? Because you've cited both and they have nothing to do with one another.

Unsurprisingly, you're full of shit - the U.S. has a 5% fatality rate right now and worldwide it's even higher (I'll let you figure out how to back into hospitalization figures). I'm assuming you've seen footage of New York these last few weeks, right? New York is weeks ahead of some cities in the U.S. and nearly all of them have implemented Stay at Home orders. Now picture, all of these States lifting those orders before the virus has run through the population. I'm just going to have to assume that painted the scene for you, but it's been a slog up until this point, so I won't hold my breath.

Again, it's VERY simple and somehow I think you're STILL not getting it - those protective measures you're talking about...are already happening. What possible protective measures do think are going to be successful with a virus this communicable? You think your cloth mask is going to save you? It WILL spread through the population and guess where you'll end up, big guy? That's right, exactly where you are right now! We get it, shutting down the economy is awful and everyone would love to be "back to normal" right now. But either you deal with the health crisis and then the economy, or you ruin both worse (and for longer). Literally no one is saying this needs to, or should, last forever.

Ah, right, 'boomer'. This'll be my last response to you; you can get back to 4chan and avocado toast, while being outraged about everything and continuing to do absolutely nothing.
I mean, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

So far you've spouted off the Fox News best hits of: "personal freedoms", "actually the lockdown is causing more issues for people" (you know, more than the virus killing people...), the people who are dying "...most of those are of a demographic where people can rationalize as to why it would happen", and "there are way bigger issues in the world, and that have affected and will continue to affect the world, that have been around for a very long time". The only bigger giveaway would have been if you said it's just another flu and tried to peddle hydroxychloroquine.

So, am I right? (though that tired little quip about avocado toast and "being outraged about everything" kind of answered the question for you really...)

So the mortality rate has already been affected by social distancing measures that basically just came into effect, according to everyone isn't being done properly, that most people are ignoring or not following so they've actually had to legislate fines, jail time, etc. and banning of even use of greenspace while respecting social distancing limits. So what is it the governments are completely incompetent and not doing enough or they're already turning the tide with last ditch measures and 0 preparation? Don't answer that, it's cool, you know what's best I'm a 'boomer' so let's just leave it at that. The best part is yammering on about straw men while citing arguments I've never made (I'll let you figure that out). The world is doomed if it opens up again soon, so let's just all hope it doesn't and maybe we can keep this going until a vaccine is ready, what could go wrong?
I don't know where the hell you got this idea that "most people are ignoring or not following" the stay at home guidelines. I have no idea where you live (I'm going to guess Alberta), but in NYC the City has come to a STANDSTILL. Sure, some parks were a problem early on and you still get spotty social distancing when it's nice out, but just about everyone is doing their part. And that's how you have to deal with a pandemic like this...as a collective. Frankly, I find your little whine about your personal freedoms and having to protect the "vast minority" (wrong, but extremely telling of your societal outlook) pretty pathetic. If you continually flout the guidelines designed to keep less fortunate, immuno-compromised, or older people safe, then you're an asshole and you deserve to be fined or jailed.

Yes, many governments are absolutely turning the tide - and that's why this is exactly the WRONG time to ease the guidelines. If you do that, all you're doing is erasing all the gains you've made over the last two months. Seriously...what. do. you. not. understand? We get it, "but the economy!". It's pretty clear what needs to come first based on A) public health experts and economists alike, and B) basic human decency.

Your last sentence is pretty telling of just how little you've actually managed to comprehend of what I'm saying. Honestly, it's SAD(!).

The UK government will never have a complex plan for exiting lockdown, just as it hasn't had a complex plan at any stage up to now.

The public isn't interested in complexity either - it is fuelled by emotion (which is why the lockdown enjoys widespread support in opinion polls, yet every time I go out I see indications of a casual indifference to basic principles of social distancing from an overwhelming majority of people I encounter - to say nothing of their indifference to basic principles of good health since time immemorial. When a pollster asks you if you support the lockdown, one's antenna switches on: one understands the need to present oneself to the pollster as a Good Person. It's only the effort of a few moments, after all. Mouth a platitude about how marvellous the NHS is - another brief, painless recital into which the population is well-drilled- and the litany is completed. For a couple or a pair of friends to walk in single file to preserve a 2m space between themselves and other people on the pavement, by contrast, requires thinking of other people consistently, and that's far too much effort. In the same spirit, people will encroach on your space because they veer off a straight course from the distraction of looking at their phones - because what is curbing a pandemic in comparison to the Pavlovian urge to respond to a notification?)

The government is fuelled by the desire to avoid having to make any decision at all. Fundamentally, though, it still believes above all in herd immunity - it came out earlier in the week they are still allowing 15,000 people to fly into the country daily without carrying out health checks. At least two of the five tests announced this week that must be met in order to exit lockdown are usefully vague.

Public panic brought about the beginnings of a lockdown, which opened a crack for the government to formalise the policy when the projections indicated a death toll so big even the Prime Minister's 'Boris' act couldn't distract from it. A peak in the public's fear of the virus / boredom is what the government is seeking signs of for them to be able safely to call the lockdown off. (I mean 'safely' from a political point of view, you understand).

And if NUFC is taken over by the Saudis - long time 'allies' of the UK - you can bet they'll lobby for football to resume as quickly as possible.
I wouldn't dare defend Boris Johnson, but this take is too cynical, even for me. I'd hope even he as the good sense to listen to his health experts.
 
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YNWA14

Onbreekbaar
Dec 29, 2010
34,543
2,560
I shouldn’t have to respond again but since you’re an idiot and can’t read I’ll help you. I’m social distancing, I’m not complaining about any of the measures and I don’t think there should be any rush to stop any measures in place before it’s safe. If you can provide one example where I’ve done any of the things you’ve been arguing against I’ll happily admit to being wrong (hint, you won’t). Though I do find it quaint how people like you throw around boomer not realizing how incredibly ironic it is for you to do so. Can you please go back to 4chan now? Cheers.
 
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