Post-Game Talk: Pre-Season GM 1: Canucks def. Sharks - 1-0 (OT, Cracknell)

[PM]

Wow Cracknell is 30 now!?? I thought he was much younger than that. I can't find any info on last time he played centre, I always figured he was a RWer.

 

[dwarf]

It just makes no sense.

Bo Horvat was a better ES offensive producer last year than Brandon Sutter. He's a better offensive player. If you wanted offensive protection/backup for Horvat, you keep Bonino.

If we'd picked up Sutter to play as the #3 guy, take defensive matchups, and allow Horvat to grow offensively in offensive minutes ... I still don't like the trade, but at least that makes a bit of logical sense.

But to give Sutter creampuff offensive wingers and (presumably) tons of offensive zone starts while shoehorning Horvat into the primary defensive role is just ... nonsensical.

And again, this isn't just a 'first preseason game' thing - Benning pretty clearly stated this as his plan throughout the summer.

Organizations tend to want to validate their trades. If Sutter gets a ton of points, it will do that. If he does not, then everyone will come back and criticize the Bonino trade.

I doubt Horvat will ever be paired with Vrbata. Logical or not.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

You don't put a line with Vrbata and Baertschi on it into 'tough matchups'. They'll get destroyed.

Higgins-Sutter-Hansen playing big shutdown minutes as a 3rd line to free up Horvat to take soft matchups makes sense. This does not.

Edited post:
Fair point. It looks like they are trying to put a defensively responsible center with Vrbata and Baertshci. I actually like the combination as it's a nice balance. If they can get offence from a second line that should ease some pressure off the Sedin line. I also doubt the lines will be set in stone as it's pre-season and they are just trying to see what works. Often what looks good on paper just doesn't mesh in reality.

 

[arsmaster*]

I personally think the Baertschi-Sutter-Vrbata line is at the very least worth exploring, especially during the preseason, you just never know for sure until you try it. Same thing with rotating some different wingers with the Twins, might as well see how many different looks you can give teams.

I think like most I expect Horvat to be the defacto number 2 by years end, Sutter is just a safety valve. A guy who is sorta capable of being a #2 but it is better suited to the 3rd line.

The real question is what will Sven bring to the lineup, he's really the unknown quantity at this point.

Not really the place to debate it, but it's a pretty dog gone expensive safety valve.

They don't get nearly the same utility out of the roster with this new safety valve.

 

[tc 23]

Yee. Hockey time.

 

[topched88]

I dont mind starting sutter with the offensive guys. If nothing else, it takes the pressure off bo to produce early.You can always make the switch really quick.

 

[mrmyheadhurts]

Not really the place to debate it, but it's a pretty dog gone expensive safety valve.

They don't get nearly the same utility out of the roster with this new safety valve.

Well, I'm discussing the roster as it is currently constructed, for better or for worse.

 

[MS]

I think it's worth exploring. Every year posters put down what they think will work on paper and then we see that different combinations work better.
Let's see how it plays out.

Wouldn't it make more sense to explore how Horvat could carry a 2nd line with two good offensive wingers? And if it doesn't go well, then put Sutter there?

Bo Horvat had 21 ES points in his last 40 games last year including playoffs. That is elite 2nd line (and borderline first line) production from a 3rd/4th line.

When your building block players like this show they're ready for prime minutes, you don't hold them back. Especially when it makes zero sense from a roster composition perspective.

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

I personally think the Baertschi-Sutter-Vrbata line is at the very least worth exploring, especially during the preseason, you just never know for sure until you try it. Same thing with rotating some different wingers with the Twins, might as well see how many different looks you can give teams.

I think like most I expect Horvat to be the defacto number 2 by years end, Sutter is just a safety valve. A guy who is sorta capable of being a #2 but it is better suited to the 3rd line.

The real question is what will Sven bring to the lineup, he's really the unknown quantity at this point.

Aye. If they're going to experiment with it, they may as well do so during preseason. While I don't think they will mesh well, who knows. Sutter's speed may just be a big enough factor. Either way, hockey!

 

[StrictlyCommercial]

If Vrbata moves up with the twins, is Baer-Sutter-Burr the 2nd or 3rd line? Nothing wrong with putting Horvat with Higgins and Hansen. He gets the 2nd best LW on the team and their 3rd best RW. This is a WD coached team we're talking about. As long as Sutter doesn't touch PP2 I have no concerns.

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

Wouldn't it make more sense to explore how Horvat could carry a 2nd line with two good offensive wingers? And if it doesn't go well, then put Sutter there?

Bo Horvat had 21 ES points in his last 40 games last year including playoffs. That is elite 2nd line (and borderline first line) production from a 3rd/4th line.

When your building block players like this show they're ready for prime minutes, you don't hold them back. Especially when it makes zero sense from a roster composition perspective.

Not necessarily. I actually it would be better to see how he fairs in a less pressured - though still elevated - role. If Horvat's ready to move up, Sutter is not going to stand in his way for long.

 

[DL44]

Organizations tend to want to validate their trades. If Sutter gets a ton of points, it will do that. If he does not, then everyone will come back and criticize the Bonino trade.

I doubt Horvat will ever be paired with Vrbata. Logical or not.

Of course he will if the lines aren't working.
Everyone wants to see what steps Horvat has taken this off-season... the coaches want to know as bad as us... it's almost a virtual lock they'll play together this pre-season.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Wouldn't it make more sense to explore how Horvat could carry a 2nd line with two good offensive wingers? And if it doesn't go well, then put Sutter there?

Bo Horvat had 21 ES points in his last 40 games last year including playoffs. That is elite 2nd line (and borderline first line) production from a 3rd/4th line.

When your building block players like this show they're ready for prime minutes, you don't hold them back. Especially when it makes zero sense from a roster composition perspective.

My apologies as I edited my post. That was poor form on my part.
I can see arguments for either Horvat or Sutter on that line. In fact, I could see this changing as the season progresses.
I think that the feeling is that Sutter has more offence than he's been able to show playing in the shadows of Malkin and Crosby. The plan may be to ease Horvat in playing on a more defensive line and then make the switch as the season progresses. We sometimes forget that he's still very young. Nothing wrong with easing him in this year.

 

[Eddy Punch Clock]

Markstrom faces SJ for his first game of the season.

Thats one big ol' dragon to slay.

 

[Ho Borvat]

My apologies as I edited my post. That was poor form on my part.
I can see arguments for either Horvat or Sutter on that line. In fact, I could see this changing as the season progresses.
I think that the feeling is that Sutter has more offence than he's been able to show playing in the shadows of Malkin and Crosby. The plan may be to ease Horvat in playing on a more defensive line and then make the switch as the season progresses. We sometimes forget that he's still very young. Nothing wrong with easing him in this year.

In all fairness as well, we really don't know what we have in Baertschi yet, and Vrbata is a more offensively inclined player as well. So even though they are the better offensive players, I can see an argument that it may be preferable to try and get Sutter to be the defensive anchor on that line.

Higgins and Hansen are both very good 3rd line players, so Bo really won't be relied upon to be the "safety net" on that line and he may be able to try and push the play a little more himself (knowing he has Hansen/Higgins covering for him).

 

[PM]

Markstrom faces SJ for his first game of the season.

Thats one big ol' dragon to slay.

Here's hoping to a better performance than his last one against them. Although the reaction on here if he lets in three outta four might be more entertaining than the game itself.

 

[Pip]

Flashbacks to last year's game

It's only up from there Marky

 

[MS]

Not necessarily. I actually it would be better to see how he fairs in a less pressured - though still elevated - role. If Horvat's ready to move up, Sutter is not going to stand in his way for long.

I would argue that playing softer matchups with Baertschi and Vrbata is 'less pressure' than being asked to take tons of defensive zone starts as the shutdown guy.

Again, even outside of Horvat, it just makes no sense. They've repeatedly called Sutter a matchup guy ... and put him with two creampuff wingers, including one who is a rookie and is going to be one of the worst defensive players in the NHL?

To me, Horvat is ready to break out as a 50-60 point high-end #2 center. And if we succeed this year, it's going to have to be on the backs of guys like Horvat and Markstrom doing unexpected things. When a young player shows what Horvat did to close out last year, I *hate* putting the reins on his development.

 

[Pip]

Sutter is a vet and we all know what he is and for the most part what he can handle. Horvat should be the young question mark that needs experimenting on the second line. He shouldn't be the fallback plan if Sutter fails.

 

[VanillaCoke]

I'm not too worried about the lines in preseason Game number 1.

I'm very interested to see markstrom. I hope he does well but imagine the **** storm if he gets lit up. Oh my.

 

[Skirbs1011]

I would rather them try the Sutter, Baertschi, Vrbata line now, so when there is 2-3 preseason games left they can make the switch if need be.

Preseason is where these things should be explored, they probably think Sutter has some untapped offensive abilities, they will soon get there answer and make changes if need be.

 

[Powder]

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Markstrom faces SJ for his first game of the season.

Thats one big ol' dragon to slay.

Oh, oh!
I'm having flashbacks. That may be the ugliest period of goaltending I've seen in a long time.

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

Sharks' Lineup, per their Official Twitter:

Hertl-Tierney-Wingels,
Nieto-Smith-Goodrow,
Goldobin-Carpenter-Meier,
Sadowy-Lerg-Brown

Dillon-Tennyson,
Mueller-DeMello,
Young-Roy.

Grosenick

 

[DL44]

Sharks' Lineup, per their Official Twitter:

Hertl-Tierney-Wingels,
Nieto-Smith-Goodrow,
Goldobin-Carpenter-Meier,
Sadowy-Lerg-Brown

Dillon-Tennyson,
Mueller-DeMello,
Young-Roy.

Grosenick

Ok... here we go...


4-1....

Baertschi, Horvat, Jensen, Bartkowsky with the goals.. Sutter with 2 primary assists.
Goodrow the other way vs Bauchman. Markstrom blanks during his stint.
8 hrs to go!