Post-Game Talk: Pre-Season GM 1: Canucks def. Sharks - 1-0 (OT, Cracknell)

[Reign Nateo]

Well... Get to see Horvat I guess...

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Finally some hockey!
Interested to see how these line combinations do. I have big hopes for Baertschi this year. The other guy I'm really intrigued to see is Markstrom. Can he finally start to put it together. Could be huge if he does and disastrous if he can't make the jump.

 

[coastal_nuck]

So we get to see lines 2 and 3. I'll be keeping my eye on Baertschi, Sutter, Horvat, Gaunce, Hutton and Biega. The rest are pretty much known quantities or are not likely to impress.

 

[Scurr]

Finally some hockey!
Interested to see how these line combinations do. I have big hopes for Baertschi this year. The other guy I'm really intrigued to see is Markstrom. Can he finally start to put it together. Could be huge if he does and disastrous if he can't make the jump.

Agreed. You'd think more people could get a little excited about having two of the very best players in the minors last season joining the club.

 

[Tinhorn1]

It's just so backwards.

They pick up a defensive 'matchup' center ... and play him with two offensive wingers who should be getting massive o-zone starts.

They claim they don't want to rush Horvat's defensive responsibility ... but put him with two checking wingers on what is clearly a #3 checking line.

They claim they made the trade to 'ease the pressure on Horvat offensively' ... but in fact the player they picked up is worse offensively than the one they traded away.

I get that this is only the first preseason game and could change ... but based on everything from the organization over the past two months, this is the plan. Sutter as the #2 center. Hopefully it dies very quickly.

__________

Can't wait to see Sbisa-Bartkowski. Will be entertaining if nothing else.

Not many good prospects dressed for this. Looking forward to seeing Grenier and Hutton. Poor Jensen on the 4th line.

Don't really understand the problem here as the line-up relates to Horvat. Sutter is there to start off so that Horvat doesn't feel the pressure to produce like a top-six player. Sutter can also drop down to a shutdown role if that looks too much for Horvat. Sutter can also be the top PK centre so that Horvat doesn't have to be.

I have no attachment to Sutter and don't much care about him one way or the other. I've never even seen him play. But I'm glad Horvat isn't being forced into a top-six role without any backup. The kid is going to have the weight of the organization on his back soon enough, at which point I don't doubt that this fan base will tear him to pieces the same way they do all their stars (not referring to you). Let him enjoy himself with less pressure for a little while and further develop his skills. He does still have a lot to learn, after all.

 

[Verviticus]

providing backup for horvat with sutter necessarily comes in the form of giving sutter hard starts and hard competition so horvat can ease into a scoring role. giving sutter the higher quality scoring players and horvat the defensive ones is not optimal

 

[WetcoastOrca]

providing backup for horvat with sutter necessarily comes in the form of giving sutter hard starts and hard competition so horvat can ease into a scoring role. giving sutter the higher quality scoring players and horvat the defensive ones is not optimal[/QUOTE

Agreed. I like the way Horvat was handled last year. I see him taking another step offensively this year but there's no need to rush him. Let Sutter take some of the tough matchups.

 

[Rex Banner]

Sutter is just a hurdle for Horvat to vault over. I wouldn't be surprised to see Horvat at 2C by the new year.

 

[PM]

Is Cracknell playing centre? I thought he was primarily a winger for his entire pro career. Why not just play Gaunce at centre... why???

Gaunce at centre means he actually has a chance of cracking the roster. At left wing he has to beat out Prust and Kenins for that 4th line LW roster spot and there is no way the prized acquisition of Prust is sat and Kenins deserves a full-time spot after his showing last year as well.

 

[DCantheDDad]

Puuumped to watch aome almost Canucks hockey. Jays/Yankees then Canucks/Sharks. Yes please.

 

[y2kcanucks]

Agreed. I like the way Horvat was handled last year. I see him taking another step offensively this year but there's no need to rush him. Let Sutter take some of the tough matchups.

So put a defensive C in an offensive role, and put Horvat in a tougher defensive role along with two defensive wingers. Uhh....

 

[DL44]

providing backup for horvat with sutter necessarily comes in the form of giving sutter hard starts and hard competition so horvat can ease into a scoring role. giving sutter the higher quality scoring players and horvat the defensive ones is not optimal

Vrbata's 2-way ability make him the better defensive option than Higgins or Hansen. The Sutter-Vrbata line would be the hard matching line on paper.
You need a checking line to be threatening the other way as well... Vrby is solid defensively and he can snipe the other way.

It allows the triple H line to go head to head vs other 3rd lines... a scenario i think we'll have the advantage with over most of the league..

 

[MS]

Don't really understand the problem here as the line-up relates to Horvat. Sutter is there to start off so that Horvat doesn't feel the pressure to produce like a top-six player. Sutter can also drop down to a shutdown role if that looks too much for Horvat. Sutter can also be the top PK centre so that Horvat doesn't have to be.

I have no attachment to Sutter and don't much care about him one way or the other. I've never even seen him play. But I'm glad Horvat isn't being forced into a top-six role without any backup. The kid is going to have the weight of the organization on his back soon enough, at which point I don't doubt that this fan base will tear him to pieces the same way they do all their stars (not referring to you). Let him enjoy himself with less pressure for a little while and further develop his skills. He does still have a lot to learn, after all.

It just makes no sense.

Bo Horvat was a better ES offensive producer last year than Brandon Sutter. He's a better offensive player. If you wanted offensive protection/backup for Horvat, you keep Bonino.

If we'd picked up Sutter to play as the #3 guy, take defensive matchups, and allow Horvat to grow offensively in offensive minutes ... I still don't like the trade, but at least that makes a bit of logical sense.

But to give Sutter creampuff offensive wingers and (presumably) tons of offensive zone starts while shoehorning Horvat into the primary defensive role is just ... nonsensical.

And again, this isn't just a 'first preseason game' thing - Benning pretty clearly stated this as his plan throughout the summer.

 

[Verviticus]

i disagree very strongly that vrbata is a strong 2-way player. hes just not a liability

 

[PM]

Wait the game is in Colwood at Bear Mountain now? I thought it was in Saanich at the arena on the way to the ferries? Isn't that kind of a slap in the face to the people in Saanich to move Kraft Hockeyville like that? The Island isn't just one big city...

Of course Save on Foods would have made the most sense though if they wanted to fill the place the up and make it more accessible for everyone. Getting to Bear Mountain and back sucks.

 

[MS]

Agreed. I like the way Horvat was handled last year. I see him taking another step offensively this year but there's no need to rush him. Let Sutter take some of the tough matchups.

You don't put a line with Vrbata and Baertschi on it into 'tough matchups'. They'll get destroyed.

Higgins-Sutter-Hansen playing big shutdown minutes as a 3rd line to free up Horvat to take soft matchups makes sense. This does not.

 

[thepuckmonster]

Wait the game is in Colwood at Bear Mountain now? I thought it was in Saanich at the arena on the way to the ferries? Isn't that kind of a slap in the face to the people in Saanich to move Kraft Hockeyville like that? The Island isn't just one big city...

Of course Save on Foods would have made the most sense though if they wanted to fill the place the up and make it more accessible for everyone. Getting to Bear Mountain and back sucks.

Panorama (the arena getting the upgrades) is even more of a pain to get to and doesn't have the facilities to even have parking for more than 200 people.

Q Centre is where the Jr A team plays, SOFA is being used tonight for something IIRC.

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

So put a defensive C in an offensive role, and put Horvat in a tougher defensive role along with two defensive wingers. Uhh....

Well, it could be viewed as putting Horvat with some safer, more responsible players. Who would you say is the better defensive player - Hansen/Higgins, or Vrbata/Baertschi?

Either way, interested to see how it plays out. My prediction is that Horvat leapfrogs Sutter by the end of the season.

On another note, Jensen is definitely in no-man's land. Paired with a tryout and an AHL-bound center, he's definitely not going to get any plum opportunities without showing why they should give him one.

 

[PM]

Panorama (the arena getting the upgrades) is even more of a pain to get to and doesn't have the facilities to even have parking for more than 200 people.

Q Centre is where the Jr A team plays, SOFA is being used tonight for something IIRC.

Ah gotcha, just listening to the guys on TSN 1040 and was wondering if they got their island municipalities mixed up. I haven't been to Panorama since I played minor hockey but yeah it's right in the middle of nowhere as well. Still sucks for the Saanichtons now that have to go to Colwood.

 

[WhiteCurse]

Wait the game is in Colwood at Bear Mountain now? I thought it was in Saanich at the arena on the way to the ferries? Isn't that kind of a slap in the face to the people in Saanich to move Kraft Hockeyville like that? The Island isn't just one big city...

Of course Save on Foods would have made the most sense though if they wanted to fill the place the up and make it more accessible for everyone. Getting to Bear Mountain and back sucks.

Way to small to have at the Saanich arena. Once your over the Hat its all Victoria, black sheep of the island

 

[Pip]

. Poor Jensen on the 4th line.

I was gonna say poor Jones having to play with Jensen and the goon.

 

[mrmyheadhurts]

I personally think the Baertschi-Sutter-Vrbata line is at the very least worth exploring, especially during the preseason, you just never know for sure until you try it. Same thing with rotating some different wingers with the Twins, might as well see how many different looks you can give teams.

I think like most I expect Horvat to be the defacto number 2 by years end, Sutter is just a safety valve. A guy who is sorta capable of being a #2 but it is better suited to the 3rd line.

The real question is what will Sven bring to the lineup, he's really the unknown quantity at this point.

 

[thepuckmonster]

I personally think the Baertschi-Sutter-Vrbata line is at the very least worth exploring, especially during the preseason, you just never know for sure until you try it. Same thing with rotating some different wingers with the Twins, might as well see how many different looks you can give teams.

I think like most I expect Horvat to be the defacto number 2 by years end, Sutter is just a safety valve. A guy who is sorta capable of being a #2 but it is better suited to the 3rd line.

The real question is what will Sven bring to the lineup, he's really the unknown quantity at this point.

Yeah this is how I feel as well.

 

[NuxFan09]

You don't put a line with Vrbata and Baertschi on it into 'tough matchups'. They'll get destroyed.

Higgins-Sutter-Hansen playing big shutdown minutes as a 3rd line to free up Horvat to take soft matchups makes sense. This does not.

Agreed. Higgins-Sutter-Hansen immediately makes sense as the big checking line for this team. Sutter should not be our 2nd line centre. Ugh, people will see soon enough, the brass and the fans.

On the other hand, it could work out. This is what preseason is for. We'll get our first look tonight.

 

[Tinhorn1]

It just makes no sense.

Bo Horvat was a better ES offensive producer last year than Brandon Sutter. He's a better offensive player. If you wanted offensive protection/backup for Horvat, you keep Bonino.

If we'd picked up Sutter to play as the #3 guy, take defensive matchups, and allow Horvat to grow offensively in offensive minutes ... I still don't like the trade, but at least that makes a bit of logical sense.

But to give Sutter creampuff offensive wingers and (presumably) tons of offensive zone starts while shoehorning Horvat into the primary defensive role is just ... nonsensical.

And again, this isn't just a 'first preseason game' thing - Benning pretty clearly stated this as his plan throughout the summer.

Well, it's a point where reasonable people can disagree. I personally hope that Horvat can learn to dominate territorially, something he didn't do last year, and Higgins seems like a better guy to learn that possession game from than Vrbata or Baertschi.

That being said, Horvat will likely also get some opportunities with Vrbata this preseason (at least according to Vrbata), so there is as yet no call to gnash our teeth about Horvat's usage, whatever our opinion.