Speculation: Potential Trade Deadline Acquisition

[JTG]

I can't 100% blame Letang, he's been on an offensively depleted team, and it's obvious he's trying to do too much. He also has a crap defense partner who doesn't bail him out.

Once he settles down, and stops trying to score two goals on every shift, and gets a decent D partner again, he'll be fine. I'm hoping he settles down and plays a more simple game, since we won't have Scuderi for 6-8 weeks or something.

...an offensively depleted team?

Where are you people coming up with this stuff?

It hasn't been as high powered as it could be, but depleted it is not. They are currently sitting 10th in the league in scoring per game right now.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I mean, Kunitz has had his moments, but he's been killing it statistically.

Yeah I get it, stats aren't everything, but like you mentioned, he's had his moments. Collectively, the team is playing poorly outside of Fleury, Bortuzzo and Maatta who have been the bright spots for this team during that time. Also, the main board's obsession with Sid's ppg while he plays poorly but seemingly, gets a free pass every time.

Kunitz is playing his game, he's older, a little more fragile now and likely playing through some injury that he's gotten because of his style of play, but I haven't noticed anything that has stood out as "Holy crap, that was just horrendous" by him. I think I've noticed more that from Letang, Malkin, and Crosby, sadly.

 

[KIRK]

I remember people claiming Paul Martin's issues were all coaching and he needed to play for a better coach in a more structured defensive system etc. Turned out Paul Martin just needed to get his head out of his ass and play better. He has to his credit. No reason Letang can't. It's really on him.

Good point.

Perhaps as Bylsma said to Iginla 'let me tell you the story of James Neal', he can tell Letang the story of Paul Martin.

Or, perhaps your point isn't so good, because it presupposes that all players and situations are the same.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I can't 100% blame Letang, he's been on an offensively depleted team, and it's obvious he's trying to do too much. He also has a crap defense partner who doesn't bail him out.

Once he settles down, and stops trying to score two goals on every shift, and gets a decent D partner again, he'll be fine. I'm hoping he settles down and plays a more simple game, since we won't have Scuderi for 6-8 weeks or something.

Why on earth does he need someone to bail him out and this team is offensively depleted? Lol. Letang's problem maybe is that he relies on someone to bail his ass out defensively and that's why he's never evolved that part of his game, where you know, he should as a DEFENSEMAN.

 

[vodeni]

I mean, Kunitz has had his moments, but he's been killing it statistically.

funny and I don't like his game much, but I thought he had a pretty good jump last few games, I feel he is breaking out of his pretty bad few weeks

 

[KIRK]

I had a dream we traded Niskanen and Deslauriers to the Sabres for Ott.

Then Ott changed his number to 44, forcing Orpik to change his number to 85. And then Orpik changed his name to Ochocinco.

I wish I were making this up. I was happy with the trade, though.

Shero doesn't trade roster players anymore during the season without a replacement coming back being part of the package, and he only has done that once since the Pens won the cup.

I do have a question, based on reading how the Kunitz extension started with a question of 'do you want to be here'. Why is that ALWAYS the question? For every free agent. For guys in Martin or Michalek he's thinking of trading. And, if the guy wants to be here, then he's here.

In other words, when did we become Nashville. It's almost as if someone saying 'yes, I want to be here' should be cause for celebration and immediate signing.

Ah, the family comes first . . .

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Good point.

Perhaps as Bylsma said to Iginla 'let me tell you the story of James Neal', he can tell Letang the story of Paul Martin.

Or, perhaps your point isn't so good, because it presupposes that all players and situations are the same.

Even when Paul was bad, he didn't make bad mistakes like Letang, but he corrected them, he's also much older and a guy that had developed some bad habits as a Penguin and then changed them back to good ones. I mean even Matt Cooke studied game video with this coaching staff and changed his game, yet Kris Letang isn't capable of seeing the mistakes he makes game after game and for a guy that supposedly watches the most game tape on the team.

Something definitely does not add up. I know the easy thing is to blame Bylsma for the problems this team has had, but Martin found his game again citing himself as the problem and that he can play better while refusing to be traded by Shero. As well, Cooke sat with Bylsma and Granato and changed his game and he's been better for it, doing very well in Minnesota as well with no incidents since.

The joke is that Letang is man-pretty and dumb. Are we joking about it to hide that it might actually be true?

 

[KIRK]

Even when Paul was bad, he didn't make bad mistakes like Letang, but he corrected them, he's also much older and a guy that had developed some bad habits as a Penguin and then changed them back to good ones. I mean even Matt Cooke studied game video with this coaching staff and changed his game, yet Kris Letang isn't capable of seeing the mistakes he makes game after game and for a guy that supposedly watches the most game tape on the team.

Something definitely does not add up. I know the easy thing is to blame Bylsma for the problems this team has had, but Martin found his game again citing himself as the problem and that he can play better while refusing to be traded by Shero. As well, Cooke sat with Bylsma and Granato and changed his game and he's been better for it, doing very well in Minnesota as well with no incidents since.

The joke is that Letang is man-pretty and dumb. Are we joking about it to hide that it might actually be true?

I get the joke.

I also get the mindless idea that all players are the same and are to be dealt with the same. If Neal can play off wing, then Iginla should be able to play off wing. If Martin could 'self correct', then Letang can 'self correct'.

This whole thing just stinks to high heaven. There's no structure, discipline, or accountability. I've seen Maatta, for example, doing dumb **** the last few games that he wouldn't have even dreamed to doing a month ago.

Letang isn't going to self correct. Like Malkin, you choose the player or you choose the coach . . . or you choose to be a cup pretender.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I get the joke.

I also get the mindless idea that all players are the same and are to be dealt with the same. If Neal can play off wing, then Iginla should be able to play off wing. If Martin could 'self correct', then Letang can 'self correct'.

This whole thing just stinks to high heaven. There's no structure, discipline, or accountability. I've seen Maatta, for example, doing dumb **** the last few games that he wouldn't have even dreamed to doing a month ago.

Letang isn't going to self correct. Like Malkin, you choose the player or you choose the coach . . . or you choose to be a cup pretender.

I think it can be corrected. I mean in our lives, how many times have we known someone that wants to change and then tries to change, but then gives up and repeats their mistakes again? Then you go oh well, time for you to learn on your own now.

Difference is, in this case anyway, that these guys are being paid top dollar to play their best and get better so they have a shot at being successful and winning a Cup.

Martin noticed that his horrid play meant he could be asked to move, that might have really hit his pride, too bad his poor play didn't and he didn't play better based on his horrid play and not the rumors that Shero might be thinking about trading him and then it almost coming true which prompted him to say he can play better and that he wanted to prove it and stay.

Cooke's problems almost ruined his career, that might have motivated him to want to change. What incentives does Letang have to change? He's just signed a huge contract, his life is great right now, he's making mistakes, probably not being chastised for it and he has really really sweet hair flow. Yeah, jokes again, but if he really wants to change, he needs to be put in the situation where either he changes or he changes teams.

Shero might not have the balls to do that. He's put himself into a tough situation vouching for a coach that should be gone and signing extensions to players when he should have finally changed some of this team's "core." I never want to hear his stupid "3 year plan" type of crap ever again. That stuff means nothing from him.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

As for Iginla, a guy that has played either C or RW his entire career in the NHL is suddenly forced to play LW, that's going to be a problem. That's more so on the coach than it is on the player, Iginla was willing to comply to anything just for a shot at the cup, something he's wanted his entire NHL career and the Pens bungled that while giving up a lot to get him.

I will never hate Iginla during his time, I will only hate how his time was handled here by the coaching staff. You finally had the opportunity to put Sid and Iginla together and the team royally ****s that up. How that doesn't piss anyone off is beyond me.

I also hated how the team never used him in the high left wing slot or the point on the powerplay, where he has been successful for the Flames for YEARS...only this coaching staff can manage to mess that up.

I like Kunitz & Dupuis, I just don't like how the staff puts them with Sid as a default.

 

[BrunoPuntzJones]

As for Iginla, a guy that has played either C or RW his entire career in the NHL is suddenly forced to play LW, that's going to be a problem. That's more so on the coach than it is on the player, Iginla was willing to comply to anything just for a shot at the cup, something he's wanted his entire NHL career and the Pens bungled that while giving up a lot to get him.

I will never hate Iginla during his time, I will only hate how his time was handled here by the coaching staff. You finally had the opportunity to put Sid and Iginla together and the team royally ****s that up. How that doesn't piss anyone off is beyond me.

I also hated how the team never used him in the high left wing slot or the point on the powerplay, where he has been successful for the Flames for YEARS...only this coaching staff can manage to mess that up.

I like Kunitz & Dupuis, I just don't like how the staff puts them with Sid as a default.

A late first round pick and two mid level prospects is not a lot for a player of Iginla's caliber, even if he's declining.

 

[AjaxTelamon]

...an offensively depleted team?

Where are you people coming up with this stuff?

It hasn't been as high powered as it could be, but depleted it is not. They are currently sitting 10th in the league in scoring per game right now.

Since Letang has been back, we have scored 19 goals in 8 games (of which Letang has scored 3), for an average of 2.375 a game, which would put us at about 24th for the league average for this year. His first game back was after losing to Colorado 1-0. He probably watched that game.

We've been playing Kobesew and Megna in place of Neal, and friggin Glass in place of BB.

That's where I come up with this stuff. Where do you come up with this stuff?

The guy is young, he's obviously pushing. He needs to settle it down, and then he'll be fine.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I get the joke.

I also get the mindless idea that all players are the same and are to be dealt with the same. If Neal can play off wing, then Iginla should be able to play off wing. If Martin could 'self correct', then Letang can 'self correct'.

This whole thing just stinks to high heaven. There's no structure, discipline, or accountability. I've seen Maatta, for example, doing dumb **** the last few games that he wouldn't have even dreamed to doing a month ago.

Letang isn't going to self correct. Like Malkin, you choose the player or you choose the coach . . . or you choose to be a cup pretender.

That seems like an artificial black or white choice designed to make people choose between Malkin or Bylsma, where the choice would be obvious.

The fact is that Malkin has shown he can thrive under Bylsma. He's won two Art Ross trophies, a Hart, and a Conn Smythe playing under him. The idea that Malkin is incapable of being a game-changer under Bylsma is completely unfounded.

 

[JTG]

Since Letang has been back, we have scored 19 goals in 8 games (of which Letang has scored 3), for an average of 2.375 a game, which would put us at about 24th for the league average for this year. His first game back was after losing to Colorado 1-0. He probably watched that game.

We've been playing Kobesew and Megna in place of Neal, and friggin Glass in place of BB.

That's where I come up with this stuff. Where do you come up with this stuff?

The guy is young, he's obviously pushing. He needs to settle it down, and then he'll be fine.

My argument would be...he's going to be paid 7.25 million dollars to create offense from the back end, and he hasn't done dick in that regard this season, and he has sucked on defense to boot.

 

[KIRK]

That seems like an artificial black or white choice designed to make people choose between Malkin or Bylsma, where the choice would be obvious.

The fact is that Malkin has shown he can thrive under Bylsma. He's won two Art Ross trophies, a Hart, and a Conn Smythe playing under him. The idea that Malkin is incapable of being a game-changer under Bylsma is completely unfounded.

The idea that Malkin is incapable of being a game changer with this coaching staff (i.e., with this team 100% Bylsma's . . . his system, his guys, Granato running the forwards) when Crosby plays and plays well-- i.e., what is required for the Pens to win a cup-- isn't unfounded. The last four seasons attest to that.

Oh, I'm sorry, I'm obsessing about how things matter in the playoffs again and forgetting about how important it is to dominate in preseason (or one January when Sid is out of the lineup).

 

[Speaking Moistly]

The idea that Malkin is incapable of being a game changer with this coaching staff (i.e., with this team 100% Bylsma's . . . his system, his guys, Granato running the forwards) when Crosby plays and plays well-- i.e., what is required for the Pens to win a cup-- isn't unfounded. The last four seasons attest to that.

Oh, I'm sorry, I'm obsessing about how things matter in the playoffs again and forgetting about how important it is to dominate in preseason (or one January when Sid is out of the lineup).

TBH, it's only proven that he's not doing that, not that he can't; that's really all that can be proven. The part in brackets also rarely occurs, this team is rarely 100% healthy, Crosby and Malkin haven't been 100% at the same time for awhile.

Crosby out with his concussion, then Malkin's knee. 2011- 2012.
Crosby comes back and then comes back again later in the season and really isn't up to 100%. 2012 playoffs
2013, Malkin had injuries that season. 2013 playoffs, Crosby's jaw.
There's 17 games this season where we are assuming that they're both 100%, but the team sure as hell isn't.

I think the injuries might be worse than anything, it also makes a lot of excuses for Bylsma. The sample size is kept really small.

 

[KIRK]

TBH, it's only proven that he's not doing that, not that he can't; that's really all that can be proven. The part in brackets also rarely occurs, this team is rarely 100% healthy, Crosby and Malkin haven't been 100% at the same time for awhile.

Crosby out with his concussion, then Malkin's knee. 2011- 2012.
Crosby comes back and then comes back again later in the season and really isn't up to 100%. 2012 playoffs
2013, Malkin had injuries that season. 2013 playoffs, Crosby's jaw.
There's 17 games this season where we are assuming that they're both 100%, but the team sure as hell isn't.

I think the injuries might be worse than anything, it also makes a lot of excuses for Bylsma. The sample size is kept really small.

Excellent point. But, end of the day, excuses or no, results are the standard according to which people-- e.g., coaches and players-- should be judged, because results don't lie.

 

[mpp9]

It is a bit concerning that Geno hasn't looked like Conn Smythe Geno with any type of regularity aside from a stretch of hockey in 11-12 (mostly in January) when Sid was out.

Recently, the only time I saw him play at that level while producing was in the Ottawa series. He was playing dominant two way hockey. With Kunitz and Neal flanking him.

 

[SEALBound]

Excellent point. But, end of the day, excuses or no, results are the standard according to which people-- e.g., coaches and players-- should be judged, because results don't lie.

There in lies the problem. No one in the organization seems to care about the results.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

What pisses me off about the Geno situation the most is that Kunitz-Geno-Neal was ****ing dominating the league. They were absolutely killing it. Then the second Sid comes back DB says, "**** you Geno!" and breaks up the line. That line was perfect and it had Geno going.

Since then they've tried everyone from Tangradi to Kobe to D'Ags on Geno's LW and he's dying alive out there.

 

[mpp9]

What pisses me off about the Geno situation the most is that Kunitz-Geno-Neal was ****ing dominating the league. They were absolutely killing it. Then the second Sid comes back DB says, "**** you Geno!" and breaks up the line. That line was perfect and it had Geno going.

Since then they've tried everyone from Tangradi to Kobe to D'Ags on Geno's LW and he's dying alive out there.

That's where I'd say Geno is at fault to some degree. DB didn't break up the line when Sid came back in '12. He rode it into the debacle of a series against Philly.

Geno was clearly our best player that year. Sid was not Sid. It was on him to get us out of that series. And he was held in check for large stretches by a rookie.

KCD wasn't going to be broken up after that IMO. Sid gets Kunitz from here on out barring a trade.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

Excellent point. But, end of the day, excuses or no, results are the standard according to which people-- e.g., coaches and players-- should be judged, because results don't lie.

Results don't lie but interpretation can, actually results can lie. nvm. This is generalizing to a degree. This team has issues, aside from the injuries, I think the coaching is a problem and that they players have issues but changing the coaching should help with the players. Something has to change.

It is a bit concerning that Geno hasn't looked like Conn Smythe Geno with any type of regularity aside from a stretch of hockey in 11-12 (mostly in January) when Sid was out.

Recently, the only time I saw him play at that level while producing was in the Ottawa series. He was playing dominant two way hockey. With Kunitz and Neal flanking him.

Maybe it's just not something he can consistently do? He'll do it once in awhile, but not regularly. Maybe he does it when Crosby is out because he thinks he has to, but that doesn't mean he could do that indefinitely.

I don't think KMN will fix it but try it, whatever, things probably won't get worse. I think with Malkin the nature of the beast is that he has to get himself going and that isn't predictable/reliable; it's a perfect storm situation.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

The idea that Malkin is incapable of being a game changer with this coaching staff (i.e., with this team 100% Bylsma's . . . his system, his guys, Granato running the forwards) when Crosby plays and plays well-- i.e., what is required for the Pens to win a cup-- isn't unfounded. The last four seasons attest to that.

Why the **** should that even be a variable?

Malkin won the Art Ross and Hart with Bylsma running everything. Crosby playing well shouldn't be a factor at all, and if it is, we need to send Geno to Fleury's shrink.

 

[mpp9]

Why the **** should that even be a variable?

Because when Sid's going, this team really doesn't need Malkin very often to win regular season games.

I don't think DB knows how to coach him when both guys are healthy.

 

[KIRK]

Because when Sid's going, this team really doesn't need Malkin very often to win regular season games.

I don't think DB knows how to coach him when both guys are healthy.

Plus, you need both of them to win a cup, but I digress.