Potential Avs Lineups

[Pierce Hawthorne]

I am fine with Compher as a 4W only. Not as a 2C or 2W or 3C or 3W since his play in those positions is uninspiring. And definitely not for 3.5M AAV which gets old real quickly.

I think he deserves a chance at 3W. He has had some solid years in that spot in previous years. Certainly not ideal but you have to give him a chance to rebound. If it doesn't work you trade him at the deadline sort of thing.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

I don't think it's a good idea to split up the top line... But if we are going to be experimental especially early in the year to see what we have in some kids, I'd like to see something like this:


LOC - Mack - Rantanen
Landy - Newhook - Compher
Nuke - Kadri - Burakovsky
Helm - Jost - Maltsev

Byram - Makar
Toews - Girard
Murray - EJ



My reasoning is this: You give Newhook time as the 2C to really find out if he is A) Capable of that role now or B) If he could be sooner then later. Finding this information out would be critical for determining whether we need to go after another 2C at the deadline this year or if Newhook can be that guy. Putting Landy on his week would give him the best two way winger on the team allowing him to focus more on the offensive side of the game and seeing if he can be productive in that role. I chose Landy rather then Nichuskin here because Nuke is probably better defensively but is a black hole on offense which wouldn't help Newhook either.


Beyond that, we also already know Nuke/Kadri/Bura works very well as a line so Putting that trio together allows consistency out of the 3rd line during the Newhook experiment.

LOC goes to the 1st line because I think his speed and tenacity on the forecheck as well as strong defensive play would do the best to replace what Landy brings on that top line. And I know I'm probably in the minority here with this but I really, really think LoC is a guy who will only continue to surprise the more responsibility he gets. His trajectory reminds me more and more of Blake Coleman and it would not surprise me in the least if he were to put up 20 Goals and 40 points if he ended up playing with Mack and Mikko long term this year.


The weak point in the lineup is probably JTC as the 2RW. But you hope in this experiment that Newhook does really well and instead of having to focus on a 2/3C at the deadline, you can turn your focus to a much cheaper to acquire winger for that 2nd line instead(I already envision a JTC++ for Rakell trade here for us).


On the defense, pair Byram with Makar and see how he does. Sink or swim sort of situation. If he does well in that role it could at least opens up more options for the Defense in terms of potential trades to fill other holes later on.

I really don't like G on the right side and in the playoffs especially I think he and EJ need to be a pairing that don't get touched(Assuming EJ is healthy) But for a stretches against weaker teams I think G is probably fine on the right side.


I'm sure injuries will be a regular theme again next year considering the roster we have... But I would like or hope to see Ranta and Barron get at least ~15 games in the NHL as I think both are really good bets to fill depth roles for us next year(I see Ranta as a bottom 6 Winger next season and Barron taking that 3RD spot). I'd also hope to see Foudy get a look(Potential 4C as soon as next year) and if Olausson is in the AHL I think he gets some games as well tbh.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

I don't think it's a good idea to split up the top line... But if we are going to be experimental especially early in the year to see what we have in some kids, I'd like to see something like this:


LOC - Mack - Rantanen
Landy - Newhook - Compher
Nuke - Kadri - Burakovsky
Helm - Jost - Maltsev

Byram - Makar
Toews - Girard
Murray - EJ



My reasoning is this: You give Newhook time as the 2C to really find out if he is A) Capable of that role now or B) If he could be sooner then later. Finding this information out would be critical for determining whether we need to go after another 2C at the deadline this year or if Newhook can be that guy. Putting Landy on his week would give him the best two way winger on the team allowing him to focus more on the offensive side of the game and seeing if he can be productive in that role. I chose Landy rather then Nichuskin here because Nuke is probably better defensively but is a black hole on offense which wouldn't help Newhook either.


Beyond that, we also already know Nuke/Kadri/Bura works very well as a line so Putting that trio together allows consistency out of the 3rd line during the Newhook experiment.

LOC goes to the 1st line because I think his speed and tenacity on the forecheck as well as strong defensive play would do the best to replace what Landy brings on that top line. And I know I'm probably in the minority here with this but I really, really think LoC is a guy who will only continue to surprise the more responsibility he gets. His trajectory reminds me more and more of Blake Coleman and it would not surprise me in the least if he were to put up 20 Goals and 40 points if he ended up playing with Mack and Mikko long term this year.


The weak point in the lineup is probably JTC as the 2RW. But you hope in this experiment that Newhook does really well and instead of having to focus on a 2/3C at the deadline, you can turn your focus to a much cheaper to acquire winger for that 2nd line instead(I already envision a JTC++ for Rakell trade here for us).


On the defense, pair Byram with Makar and see how he does. Sink or swim sort of situation. If he does well in that role it could at least opens up more options for the Defense in terms of potential trades to fill other holes later on.

I really don't like G on the right side and in the playoffs especially I think he and EJ need to be a pairing that don't get touched(Assuming EJ is healthy) But for a stretches against weaker teams I think G is probably fine on the right side.


I'm sure injuries will be a regular theme again next year considering the roster we have... But I would like or hope to see Ranta and Barron get at least ~15 games in the NHL as I think both are really good bets to fill depth roles for us next year(I see Ranta as a bottom 6 Winger next season and Barron taking that 3RD spot). I'd also hope to see Foudy get a look(Potential 4C as soon as next year) and if Olausson is in the AHL I think he gets some games as well tbh.

Personally, I would love to see something like this.

It actually makes the depth of this forward group look a lot better when you break up the big line. Going this route you can roll 4 lines in front of the best defence in the league.

I also want to see Newhook at Centre. Imo, that’s where he’s looks best and if he can actually play effectively at centre it opens up a lot of possibilities with the roster.

Byram next to Makar is my preference as well. Makar draws so much coverage from the defence that I think it would really allow Byram to grow his offensive game.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Personally, I would love to see something like this.

It actually makes the depth of this forward group look a lot better when you break up the big line. Going this route you can roll 4 lines in front of the best defence in the league.

I also want to see Newhook at Centre. Imo, that’s where he’s looks best and if he can actually play effectively at centre it opens up a lot of possibilities with the roster.

Byram next to Makar is my preference as well. Makar draws so much coverage from the defence that I think it would really allow Byram to grow his offensive game.

Yeah the forwards look deeper for sure.


I think its worth trying something like that for at least 15-20 games. Give guys a real chance to form chemistry. You know you can always fall back to loading up the top line in important games or when we are trailing in a 3rd period sort of thing. But I think giving Newhook every chance to succeed at the wC spot helps answer a lot of questions for next off season.


Same thing with Byram. If he can play well next to Makar it does open up the possibility of dealing Toews or Girard instead. Mind you I just dont think Byram will do so well as to make that a possibility because Toews is basically a Top 10D when he and Makar are together. But you learn more about what you have in Byram by trying this at least.

 

[AllAboutAvs]

Include me in the group that wants to try Newhook at 2C really early in the season. IMO it is crucial that we find out what we have in him as early as possible so that Sakic knows if he needs to trade for a 2C.

 

[Andrew Wiggin]

I don't think it's a good idea to split up the top line... But if we are going to be experimental especially early in the year to see what we have in some kids, I'd like to see something like this:


LOC - Mack - Rantanen
Landy - Newhook - Compher
Nuke - Kadri - Burakovsky
Helm - Jost - Maltsev

Byram - Makar
Toews - Girard
Murray - EJ



My reasoning is this: You give Newhook time as the 2C to really find out if he is A) Capable of that role now or B) If he could be sooner then later. Finding this information out would be critical for determining whether we need to go after another 2C at the deadline this year or if Newhook can be that guy. Putting Landy on his week would give him the best two way winger on the team allowing him to focus more on the offensive side of the game and seeing if he can be productive in that role. I chose Landy rather then Nichuskin here because Nuke is probably better defensively but is a black hole on offense which wouldn't help Newhook either.


Beyond that, we also already know Nuke/Kadri/Bura works very well as a line so Putting that trio together allows consistency out of the 3rd line during the Newhook experiment.

LOC goes to the 1st line because I think his speed and tenacity on the forecheck as well as strong defensive play would do the best to replace what Landy brings on that top line. And I know I'm probably in the minority here with this but I really, really think LoC is a guy who will only continue to surprise the more responsibility he gets. His trajectory reminds me more and more of Blake Coleman and it would not surprise me in the least if he were to put up 20 Goals and 40 points if he ended up playing with Mack and Mikko long term this year.


The weak point in the lineup is probably JTC as the 2RW. But you hope in this experiment that Newhook does really well and instead of having to focus on a 2/3C at the deadline, you can turn your focus to a much cheaper to acquire winger for that 2nd line instead(I already envision a JTC++ for Rakell trade here for us).


On the defense, pair Byram with Makar and see how he does. Sink or swim sort of situation. If he does well in that role it could at least opens up more options for the Defense in terms of potential trades to fill other holes later on.

I really don't like G on the right side and in the playoffs especially I think he and EJ need to be a pairing that don't get touched(Assuming EJ is healthy) But for a stretches against weaker teams I think G is probably fine on the right side.


I'm sure injuries will be a regular theme again next year considering the roster we have... But I would like or hope to see Ranta and Barron get at least ~15 games in the NHL as I think both are really good bets to fill depth roles for us next year(I see Ranta as a bottom 6 Winger next season and Barron taking that 3RD spot). I'd also hope to see Foudy get a look(Potential 4C as soon as next year) and if Olausson is in the AHL I think he gets some games as well tbh.

I like it to an extent, to keep the peace you might have to call the Newhook line the 3rd line and just play them similar minutes of the Kadri line so he doesn't throw a fit in his contract year. Landy and Compher won't care if they are on the "third" line as much. I would also worry a little how McKinnon does with Landeskog and the role he plays, if O'Connor can't score or help drive some scoring that line could struggle.

 

[AvsMakar08]

A Byram/Makar pairing has been written in the stars for many moons. It will happen.

We will need to separate our star players so that we can spread wealth among our top 4 dman lines. Look at Edmonton, The German and MacDavid usually play on a separate line. I think that Byram will be good enough to anchor and carry our 2nd line D. Maybe if we are down by a goal late in the third then we can put them on the same line. Otherwise I think it is better to leave Makar and Byram on 2 different lines because Byram can be just as great as Makar in a few years.

 

[Richard88]

We will need to separate our star players so that we can spread wealth among our top 4 dman lines. Look at Edmonton, The German and MacDavid usually play on a separate line. I think that Byram will be good enough to anchor and carry our 2nd line D. Maybe if we are down by a goal late in the third then we can put them on the same line. Otherwise I think it is better to leave Makar and Byram on 2 different lines because Byram can be just as great as Makar in a few years.

Byram doesn't need to anchor our 2nd pairing though. Girard and Toews are both #1 Dmen (at least according to most analytics models) and can easily hold down that pairing if Byram is on the top pair.

 

[Perratrooper]

Man Donskoi and Saad have really left a hole in our forward core. I know it’s been hammered home here, but the more I think about it, the more I think our forward core is going to struggle without a good middle 6 forward. I really wish Sakic was able to get Compher traded in the Keumper deal, would have made it much more worth it just for the cap space alone.

We need a shock or two out of camp if we’re to ice a competitive playoff team. This obviously not going to happen, but it would be amazing if the following lines worked out:

Landy-MacK-Rants
Bura-Kadri-Nuke
Olausson-Newhook-Kaut
Maltsev-Jost-LOC

 

[Richard88]

Man Donskoi and Saad have really left a hole in our forward core. I know it’s been hammered home here, but the more I think about it, the more I think our forward core is going to struggle without a good middle 6 forward. I really wish Sakic was able to get Compher traded in the Keumper deal, would have made it much more worth it just for the cap space alone.

We need a shock or two out of camp if we’re to ice a competitive playoff team. This obviously not going to happen, but it would be amazing if the following lines worked out:

Landy-MacK-Rants
Bura-Kadri-Nuke
Olausson-Newhook-Kaut
Maltsev-Jost-LOC

Olausson needs to fill out a lot more and develop his game before he can be considered a legitimate NHL option.

 

[Perratrooper]

Olausson needs to fill out a lot more and develop his game before he can be considered a legitimate NHL option.

hey I never said it was a realistic lineup, just would be fantastic if by some miracle we had a young solid third line.

 

[Avs_19]

We all love LOC and what he brings and it's perfect for a 4th liner. That's a key part of it though, for a 4th liner and maybe good enough to move up to the 3rd line one day. His lack of production in his limited playing time thus far isn't just because of linemates or role, it's also because of his own skill level and lack of finish. The only time he should be on the ice with MacKinnon is if one of them got stuck out there on a change.

No need to overthink it. Landeskog-MacKinnon-Rantanen and then figure out the rest. Either with the current roster or with Sakic making a move.

 

[Richard88]

hey I never said it was a realistic lineup, just would be fantastic if by some miracle we had a young solid third line.

Ranta, Kaut, and Maltsev are the three guys who could somewhat realistically make a case for taking a 3rd line role.

Maltsev probably projects as a 4LW/C but it wouldn't surprise me given his size, skating, and defensive ability to see him on a shutdown line with Jost and Nichuskin at times.

Ranta needs some more seasoning and coaching, based on how lost he looked at time in those 2 playoff games he played.

Kaut has the best shot of any prospect to grab a 3rd line role. He has 14 NHL games played so he knows what he needs to do at this level, it's just a question of whether or not he can apply himself and take that step.

 

[McJedi]

Man Donskoi and Saad have really left a hole in our forward core. I know it’s been hammered home here, but the more I think about it, the more I think our forward core is going to struggle without a good middle 6 forward. I really wish Sakic was able to get Compher traded in the Keumper deal, would have made it much more worth it just for the cap space alone.

We need a shock or two out of camp if we’re to ice a competitive playoff team. This obviously not going to happen, but it would be amazing if the following lines worked out:

Landy-MacK-Rants
Bura-Kadri-Nuke
Olausson-Newhook-Kaut
Maltsev-Jost-LOC

Your second line won’t work. There is no set up man. Go with Newhook there over Nuke. He’s your best passer in that group of 3. His speed is also a good fit opposite Bura.

Let Nuke play with LOC and Jost. That’s the line that has two heavy forecheckers. Jost is an excellent defensive player in his own right. That’s your checking line and has the potential to be a pretty good one.

JTC as a 4th line wing should make him somewhat viable. Kaut could also do some damage there opposite JTC.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Your second line won’t work. There is no set up man. Go with Newhook there over Nuke. He’s your best passer in that group of 3. His speed is also a good fit opposite Bura.

Let Nuke play with LOC and Jost. That’s the line that has two heavy forecheckers. Jost is an excellent defensive player in his own right. That’s your checking line and has the potential to be a pretty good one.

JTC as a 4th line wing should make him somewhat viable. Kaut could also do some damage there opposite JTC.

That 2nd line has shown to be quite useful when put together? I mean the sample size isn't huge but there's definitely precedence for it.

 

[Richard88]

Your second line won’t work. There is no set up man. Go with Newhook there over Nuke. He’s your best passer in that group of 3. His speed is also a good fit opposite Bura.

Let Nuke play with LOC and Jost. That’s the line that has two heavy forecheckers. Jost is an excellent defensive player in his own right. That’s your checking line and has the potential to be a pretty good one.

JTC as a 4th line wing should make him somewhat viable. Kaut could also do some damage there opposite JTC.

Can we really afford to write-off offense from the 3rd line like that by making it an exclusive checking line? Last season the line worked because Donskoi was able to finish chances; and needless to say LOC doesn't have anywhere near the finishing ability Donskoi does.

 

[Richard88]

That 2nd line has shown to be quite useful when put together? I mean the sample size isn't huge but there's definitely precedence for it.

The line of Nichuskin-Kadri-Burakovsky did indeed have excellent metrics in 2019/20 when they played most of their minutes together.

A lot of that success can be put down to Nichuskin. As shown in the 2nd graph below Burakovsky and Kadri both see massive improvements with Nichuskin, but their metrics without him are bad (though those metrics were mostly with Donskoi which was never a good fit so it's not all down to just Kadri and Burakovsky).

 

[Richard88]

Further to the post above, even if Burakovsky and Kadri put up significantly better metrics with Nichuskin that without him, the Nichuskin-Jost connection last year was so successful that I think you simply have to keep them together.

If Nichuskin goes to the 2nd line you might get a more functional 2nd line possession wise, but there's no guarantee that that actually leads to more scoring on the 2nd line. Meanwhile you would essentially be consigning the 3rd line to be awful, because we've seen pretty clearly the last couple of years that the only time the 3rd line works is when Nichuskin is on it - and when he is it works great.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

The line of Nichuskin-Kadri-Burakovsky did indeed have excellent metrics in 2019/20 when they played most of their minutes together.

A lot of that success can be put down to Nichuskin. As shown in the 2nd graph below Burakovsky and Kadri both see massive improvements with Nichuskin, but their metrics without him are bad (though those metrics were mostly with Donskoi which was never a good fit so it's not all down to just Kadri and Burakovsky).


View attachment 460997



View attachment 460998

Which is why that line works so well.

Nichushkin drives play, but can’t finish worth shit. Kadri and Burakovsky can both put the puck in the net.

 

[Richard88]

With Nichuskin on the 2nd line the line puts up around 57-58% in Corsi and far outproduced their xGF/60 rate (ie. 2.61 xGF/60 vs a 6.23 GF/60 rate)... Maybe that's luck, but perhaps it's simply a case of Burakovsky and Kadri having more of a platform to finish chances with Nichuskin doing a lot of dirty work.

When Nichuskin plays with Jost they have better possession and chance metrics than when Nichuskin plays with Kadri/Burakovsky, but their GF/60 isn't as high, with the difference being 3.23 vs 6.23. Obviously some of that difference will regress, and the sample size isn't huge with Nichukin/Kadri/Burakovsky.

 

[McJedi]

Why not? I’d rather have a 3rd line play great defensively. The Avs have a top shelf top line. Should have a solid scoring 2nd line and you’ve got a defense with Makar on it. As well as guys like Girard, Byram and Toews that should produce more points than most defenses league wide. Those guys get paid to score. So expect them too.

 

[McJedi]

Which is why that line works so well.

Nichushkin drives play, but can’t finish worth shit. Kadri and Burakovsky can both put the puck in the net.

But none of them can pass. There isn’t one play maker in the group. All can skate and dangle. Two of them can shoot. None of them are good passers.

 

[Avs9296]

I'd rather put Nuke on the top line instead of LOC. Both do similar jobs but imo Nuke is a better player and deserves the top line LW spot over LOC it we go the route of splitting up the top line.