Rumor: Post-season Rumour Talk

[habsfan891]

I want a guy that can bring offense to but I want a guy that can play 1st pair minutes and that’s not Ghost. He is REALLY good when it comes to PP, but at 5 vs 5 it’s way more difficult. Even Mike Reilly and Brett Kulak where more used then him at 5 vs 5 last season.

Fair enough but Ghost seemed like an all situations #1 d a few years ago when he first came in to the league and the league has leaned further to his playstyle so I can't figure out why he dropped off is it possible it's a coach disliking his game and underplaying him?

 

[Vachon23]

Fair enough but Ghost seemed like an all situations #1 d a few years ago when he first came in to the league and the league has leaned further to his playstyle so I can't figure out why he dropped off is it possible it's a coach disliking his game and underplaying him?

He finish -20 that’s was the worst of his team even if he is just playing 16:00 by games at 5 vs 5. It’s alarming

Look what Rick Wilson said on him after saying really good words on each other’s Flyers defenseman

“I would just say that I’m a little disappointed I couldn’t help him bring more of his best on a consistent basis … he is very talented and it is in there.”

31 Thoughts: Why navigating Phil Kessel trade won't be easy for Penguins - Sportsnet.ca
#27

 

[Habs Halifax]

i would take that deal and run lol

That's because you overvalue Gost and undervalue Byron or Shaw. Not saying they are all equal but Byron and Shaw have more value than most will give credit for. I have no problem going against the grain and popular bandwagon parties. Popularity on HF boards means zero to me.

Add a 2nd on top of either of Shaw or Byron and it's a very solid package. These are not spare parts.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Fair enough but Ghost seemed like an all situations #1 d a few years ago when he first came in to the league and the league has leaned further to his playstyle so I can't figure out why he dropped off is it possible it's a coach disliking his game and underplaying him?

It's cause he sucks in his own end in terms of reliability. People look at offense and ignore the overall game. Gostisbehere has good value based on what he can produce for you on offense but lets look at pros and cons

Pros:
- Skating is elite level
- Offensive vision and shot is well above average.

Cons:
- He does not play a physical game. He is below average with his neutralization ability of forwards along the boards and he can't clear the front of the net.
- He is a risk taker and you need to have a complementary piece to pair him up with.

Think Reilly or Mete in terms of skating, puck moving, and physical strength, but has a lot more ability to produce offensive production. But lets not pretend that Julien will love him and ignore how he plays in his own end. There is a reason why the Flyers are considering to trade him. Same reasons why we might consider trading Drouin.

 

[Runner77]

Fair enough but Ghost seemed like an all situations #1 d a few years ago when he first came in to the league and the league has leaned further to his playstyle so I can't figure out why he dropped off is it possible it's a coach disliking his game and underplaying him?

I'll reprise the posts from a Flyers fan about Ghost's profile:

I suppose I should have called this out specifically, but yes, his size makes it difficult for him to win any physical battle. Hes at his best when he reads the play and jumps into the lane the play is headed to, intercepting the pass it forcing the puck handler to make an alternative move.

Depends on who you ask. I'd put him pretty damn high, but i also dont really rate him as a LD, because he plays 90% of his time on the Right side, despite being a left handed shot. He prefers to play Right and performs better there. Right now, Id probably put him at the top. Future state? 2nd or 3rd. Sanheim would be my #1.

The reason he may be available - and again, this largely depends on who you ask - is because they may want to swap him for an equally skilled naturally Right D. But ultimately, i dont see the need, because Ghost can play there perfectly fine.

No problem. Ghost functions well enough on the Left side, and he is in fact a natural left shot. He played there a bit with Gudas this year on the second pair, and still played very well. That said, yeah, I'm not sure it makes sense for Montreal to be interested unless they want to force him into a role hes slightly less effective.

We have a small portion of our fanbase who wants to move him because they over-exaggerate his defensive shortcomings. We have a small contingent who thinks hes a true #1. I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle. He's probably a Good #2 or an exceptional #3 throughout his remaining career, but has shown #1 upside (he led the Provy-Ghost pairing in 17-18 which was dominant) and in a bad year (last year), he performed as a typical #4. Theres a lot of context that surrounds that though, including coaching style changes mid season, etc.

 

[Habs Halifax]

He finish -20 that’s was the worst of his team even if he is just playing 16:00 by games at 5 vs 5. It’s alarming

Look what Rick Wilson said on him after saying really good words on each other’s Flyers defenseman

“I would just say that I’m a little disappointed I couldn’t help him bring more of his best on a consistent basis … he is very talented and it is in there.”

31 Thoughts: Why navigating Phil Kessel trade won't be easy for Penguins - Sportsnet.ca
#27

If the Flyers valued Gostisbehere as much as some Habs fans do, they wouldn't even think of the possibility of trading him. Not saying I am not interested cause I do think he fits well with either Weber or Petry but we need to be careful with putting him on a pedastal cause he has one very good offensive year

He is all over the map with his year to year stats and he is inconsistent. This is why his trade value is hard to nail down. If they like Shaw, add a 2nd and rights to Reilly and pull the trigger. However, do we really want to mess with how good Domi and Shaw played together? I rather dangle Byron

 

[417]

If the Flyers valued Gostisbehere as much as some Habs fans do, they wouldn't even think of the possibility of trading him.

If you want to improve your team or change the dynamic, the best and sometimes most painful way to go about it, is to move an asset you do value highly because it assures you're going to get appropriate value.

If all GM's did was trade players they didn't want...then it wouldn't be too much fun would it?

Not saying I am not interested cause I do think he fits well with either Weber or Petry but we need to be careful with putting him on a pedastal cause he has one very good offensive year

For me it's more about his poise with the puck, his skating ability, shot and PP presence....these are elements that are missing on the Habs so I think he'd bring a lot from that perspective.

He is all over the map with his year to year stats and he is inconsistent. This is why his trade value is hard to nail down. If they like Shaw, add a 2nd and rights to Reilly and pull the trigger. However, do we really want to mess with how good Domi and Shaw played together? I rather dangle Byron

As are the Flyers

 

[Habs Halifax]

If you want to improve your team or change the dynamic, the best and sometimes most painful way to go about it, is to move an asset you do value highly because it assures you're going to get appropriate value.

If all GM's did was trade players they didn't want...then it wouldn't be too much fun would it?

For me it's more about his poise with the puck, his skating ability, shot and PP presence....these are elements that are missing on the Habs so I think he'd bring a lot from that perspective.

As are the Flyers

I will say this first. I'm very interested in adding Gostisbehere to our back end and for the very reasons you mentioned. However, I'm not going to ignore the reasons why they would consider trading him in the 1st place.

We need to be careful with trying to improve the team through free agency and trades. It can go either way in terms of it working out or not. Knights traded a few picks for Tatar and it didn't work. They traded him in a package deal less than a year later and retained on his contract.

I do think Gostisbehere fits with Weber or Petry and he helps our PP. However, I also think he makes mistakes with his creativity that might result into something we are not predicting today in terms of popularity. The minute he stops producing offense or has a span where he struggles to produce like Drouin, he is no better than Reilly.

If the price is right, I'm in and willing to swing a trade if the parts we use are some of Byron, Shaw, 2nd's, Ylonen, Ikonen, Olofsson, McShane. I am a bit hesitant to trade Shaw though cause he worked so well with Domi

 

[HockeyDBspecialist]

How? I know we haven't traded for him yet, but the fact that he's inquiring means he understands we need a LHD PP guy with a shot. Weber/Petry are fine. Drouin and whoever else we put out there is not

Ghost could be a good partner for Weber too.

Ghost --- Weber
Kulak --- Petry
Mete --- ????

Ghost wants a change of scenery. He's as perfect a fit on this team as you can get.

why mete on the third ? Mete proved he was a solid second pairing LHD
people really sleep on Mete for some odd reason

 

[Habs Halifax]

I'll reprise the posts from a Flyers fan about Ghost's profile:

Sounds like how I defend Drouin?

 

[417]

I will say this first. I'm very interested in adding Gostisbehere to our back end and for the very reasons you mentioned. However, I'm not going to ignore the reasons why they would consider trading him in the 1st place.

They want to trade him because they have an excess of LHD and have other holes they'd like to address within their roster.

We need to be careful with trying to improve the team through free agency and trades. It can go either way in terms of it working out or not. Knights traded a few picks for Tatar and it didn't work. They traded him in a package deal less than a year later and retained on his contract.

Yes it goes without saying that you have to make astute trades.

I do think Gostisbehere fits with Weber or Petry and he helps our PP. However, I also think he makes mistakes with his creativity that might result into something we are not predicting today in terms of popularity. The minute he stops producing offense or has a span where he struggles to produce like Drouin, he is no better than Reilly.

That's part of the coaching staff's role.

If the price is right, I'm in and willing to swing a trade if the parts we use are some of Byron, Shaw, 2nd's, Ylonen, Ikonen, Olofsson, McShane. I am a bit hesitant to trade Shaw though cause he worked so well with Domi

Byron is a guy I wouldn't hesitate to move this summer in the right deal, specificallybecause I think he's a very valuable player.

 

[Habs Halifax]

why mete on the third ? Mete proved he was a solid second pairing LHD
people really sleep on Mete for some odd reason

If we add Gostisbehere, I'm trying him out with Weber for sure. I don't think Mete fits well with Petry and I'd keep Kulak with Petry to start the year and see if the momentum carries from the end of the season to this next season with that pairing. Mete would fit well with Juulsen.

Starts with Karlsson but if we know he is not really interested, this is how I see Gost fitting....

Gost / Weber
Kulak / Petry
Mete / Juulsen
Folin

Think about the limited success Reilly and Juulsen had to start the season as our 2nd pairing? Swap Mete for Reilly and playing them 3rd pairing? I like it a lot

 

[Andrei79]

Because they're loaded with LHD and Shaw & Byron are very useful players

Contract, age, quality, position and availability of that positions through all markets guides player value and Ghost ticks all those boxes.

Meaning, the alternative for a team missing out on trading for him or looking for a cheaper option is significantly less appealing than alternatives for either Shaw or Byron.

I mean, I can see the Flyers looking to add veterans with versatility, but they're a more accessible addition whereas a PMD with great cost certaintity could likely net you a core winger as opposed to a complimentary winger.

 

[Habs Halifax]

They want to trade him because they have an excess of LHD and have other holes they'd like to address within their roster.


Yes it goes without saying that you have to make astute trades.


That's part of the coaching staff's role.


Byron is a guy I wouldn't hesitate to move this summer in the right deal, specificallybecause I think he's a very valuable player.

Why move Gost over Hagg or Morin? Something tells me they are a bit frustrated with his play in his own end and his inconsistency with producing offense to some degree. Similar to our frustrations with the soft game Drouin plays? What is the LD depth that I am not seeing after Provorov and with Gost out of the picture?

 

[Yoshidas Island]

One thing we have to remember when considering Ghost's defensive deficiencies is that we have Carey Price behind him. If we're paying $10.5M, the majority of the rest of the salary room should be invested into scoring. The transition prowess that Ghost brings goes a long way, and it helps to improve our plan of fast breakouts from our d-zone.

 

[Andrei79]

Both Byron and Shaw are useful players. That are a big part of this team. They are a part of our identity, which is a good identity.

But Domi and Gallagher also set that tone, while being undersized. But they are better all around players. Something has to give if we want to get bigger. Byron and Shaw are respectively number one and number two on my list who should be traded to make the team better.

It hurt to trade DeRozen for Kawhi Leonard. But it was the right move to make the team better.

Both Shaw and Byron would make the Flyers better. But I'd be surprised if 30 year old Byron were the main piece Philly would take.

I'm not trying to downplay either of Shaw or Byrons values here. I feel many here often underestimate what kind of return both could get in terms of draft picks.

I'm not denying it would make the Flyers better either, since they likely wouldn't feel his absence with the LD they already had.

I'm just questionning if that's the best return they could get considering what they're looking for and how the league values PMDs.

 

[Habs Halifax]

One thing we have to remember when considering Ghost's defensive deficiencies is that we have Carey Price behind him. If we're paying $10.5M, the majority of the rest of the salary room should be invested into scoring. The transition prowess that Ghost brings goes a long way, and it helps to improve our plan of fast breakouts from our d-zone.

Two questions in terms of how we should build our D in front of Price...

1) Forget about offensive production, who is better in their own end... Reilly or Gostisbehere? My answer is I don't know and I don't like either of their ability to neutralize players along the boards and clearing the front of the net. Why did we move Reilly out of the line-up and promote Kulak? It was because Kulak plays better in his own end and is the more physical player who is also mobile.

2) What ability does Price have if the other teams forwards feel comfortable roaming around in our end and don't have to face a physical D man? Price is good but we have to be careful with how we build our D in front of him.

 

[The Great Weal]

We could probably wait to trade for Ghost. Ghost with Therrien seems like a disaster waiting to happen.

 

[417]

Why move Gost over Hagg or Morin?

Well first of all...this is all speculative, perhaps he's not even on the market.

But again, let's just say he is...and the Flyers want to address roster needs elsewhere, wouldn't moving Ghost be more conducive to that end then moving Hagg or Morin?

I mean Robert Hagg is a good Dman, but doesn't put up eye popping numbers

Samuel Morin has barely played any hockey the last 3yrs, what exactly are you expecting to receive that's going to fill a roster need for me?

Again, you can't always expect to get deals done by only shopping players you no longer want. I don't think that's how you improve your team.

Something tells me they are a bit frustrated with his play in his own end and his inconsistency with producing offense to some degree. Similar to our frustrations with the soft game Drouin plays? What is the LD depth that I am not seeing after Provorov and with Gost out of the picture?

I would assume the Flyers brass is a bit frustrated with pretty much everyone on their roster. So anyone could be traded.

When you have as much talent as the Flyers and you missed the playoffs, no one should be untouchable...or just about.

 

[Habsawce]

Definitely fine with that trade. It hurts our forward depth a bit, but Byron was playing on the 4th line last year anyway when everyone was healthy, and Shaw is injury prone.

For the 2nd consecutive summer, Bergevin seems to understand our needs - Ghost is a definite need. Did he get a brain transplant or a new advisor?

Dudley is gone.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I'm not trying to downplay either of Shaw or Byrons values here. I feel many here often underestimate what kind of return both could get in terms of draft picks.

I'm not denying it would make the Flyers better either, since they likely wouldn't feel his absence with the LD they already had.

I'm just questionning if that's the best return they could get considering what they're looking for and how the league values PMDs.

The league does value PMD but that comes in many different forms. Gostisbehere's name has been floated around for months on these boards and I have yet to see any other team's fan base offer up something that equals Drouin or better. Heck, some Habs fans say Drouin and our 1st for Gost. Just goes to show how desperate some are for that LD.

Gostisbehere is the type of player that might disappear when you need him or when the competition gets tough. If another team wants to pay more than us, let them.

 

[417]

Two questions in terms of how we should build our D in front of Price...

1) Forget about offensive production, who is better in their own end... Reilly or Gostisbehere? My answer is I don't know and I don't like either of their ability to neutralize players along the boards and clearing the front of the net. Why did we move Reilly out of the line-up and promote Kulak? It was because Kulak plays better in his own end and is the more physical player who is also mobile.

2) What ability does Price have if the other teams forwards feel comfortable roaming around in our end and don't have to face a physical D man? Price is good but we have to be careful with how we build our D in front of him.

More offensive production, is typically related to less time spent in your end.

Ghost has proven he can produce...Reilly has not.

So I don't think you can forget about offense when building your D. Of course, you need a balance, but the Habs have enough of the "safe type" of Dman. What they're lacking on the backend is a bit more dynamic ability.

We're paying Price 10.5M/yr...Weber 7.5M/yr...Petry 5.5M/yr.

The Habs can afford to take on a bit more risk on the back end if it comes at the addition of more offense.

 

[26Mats]

I'm not trying to downplay either of Shaw or Byrons values here. I feel many here often underestimate what kind of return both could get in terms of draft picks.

I'm not denying it would make the Flyers better either, since they likely wouldn't feel his absence with the LD they already had.

I'm just questionning if that's the best return they could get considering what they're looking for and how the league values PMDs.

I agree. I can't imagine Byron being the main piece. Shaw, yes. But we'd still have to add something big to Shaw.

 

[Habsawce]

If you can get Ghost for Shaw+ I think you can replace him with a Petry trade (since Karlsson is coming and all).

Toronto would give up something nice for Petry, I bet. They have some excellent young talent on the wings.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Definitely fine with that trade. It hurts our forward depth a bit, but Byron was playing on the 4th line last year anyway when everyone was healthy, and Shaw is injury prone.

For the 2nd consecutive summer, Bergevin seems to understand our needs - Ghost is a definite need. Did he get a brain transplant or a new advisor?

Byron played all over the line-up like he usually does. Shaw has had injuries but dam, he looked good last year with Domi. Are we really going to mess with this? I know I have my concerns with it.

Bergevin has yet to make a move and something tells me he is interested in Gostisbehere but not desperate for him. Bergevin also knows we are a clutter of top 9 depth and needs to be dealt with at some point. So if there is a deal where both sides are happy, he will pull the trigger but he's not going all in on Gostisbehere.

Don't underestimate the Habs trusting in Kulak as a top 4D option based on the 3 years in term we gave him.