Poll: Thoughts on Ron Francis

[Blueline Bomber]

too early to judge, but I do not like this immobility at all.

Again, it's a two-way street. No GMs are really making huge moves. The last major deal around the league was the Vatanen/Henrique deal at the end of November. After that, it's basically been minor roster moves and "change of scenery" deals.

Francis could make those, or call up some guys from the minors, but when it gets down to it, the odds that will make much of a difference seems slim.

On paper, the team should be better than they are. Why that hasn't translated to the ice is the million dollar question, but ultimately, it's up to the players and/or the coach to make it work.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

Trying to force a trade through would likely be a mistake. That's how a Forsberg for Erat or Hall for Larsson happens. It takes time for the type of trade Carolina needs to make to develop.

 

[Incubajerks]

Again, it's a two-way street. No GMs are really making huge moves. The last major deal around the league was the Vatanen/Henrique deal at the end of November. After that, it's basically been minor roster moves and "change of scenery" deals.

Francis could make those, or call up some guys from the minors, but when it gets down to it, the odds that will make much of a difference seems slim.

On paper, the team should be better than they are. Why that hasn't translated to the ice is the million dollar question, but ultimately, it's up to the players and/or the coach to make it work.

But it is also true that it is the GM's task to send a signal, we have complained for years about the country club atmosphere and it seems to me that we are still here. If we want to remove the monkey from the shoulders and finally make at least 4 games after the classic 82 something important must be done because it seems clear to me that we are not going anywhere. It is the usual halo of frustration, while every year we have to deal with less equipped teams of us who are making sparks. Why?

 

[Incubajerks]

Trying to force a trade through would likely be a mistake. That's how a Forsberg for Erat or Hall for Larsson happens. It takes time for the type of trade Carolina needs to make to develop.

how many years we still have to tell this story?

 

[AD Skinner]

One of my favorite players ever.

I was sad when he was named GM because I knew eventually the fan base would sour on him and I would be frustrated with him instead of being able to hold him on a pedestal of awesomeness in my head.

Not sure if it's the right decision but I think he gets the rest of this year. No playoffs this year and he is probably out over the summer when dundon cleans house. Just a guess

 

[NotOpie]

Setting aside picking apart individual draft choices, do you guys think Francis and team stress size too much over skill? I think he's only drafted 2 skaters under 6' tall (Aho being one of them) out of about 35 picks since he took over. Granted, the % of guys > 6' is much higher so maybe it's no different than other teams, but it seems like he stresses it a ton.

When I look at our picks, I get the sense he was trying to find the magical "big guy with skill" prototype. Roy, Gauthier, Elynuik, Cotton, Geekie, and Mattheos. He's also done the skilled European route with Aho, Kuokkanen, Luostarinen, and even Wallmark. There's also the "big guy who can skate" model for the defensemen he's been drafting. I tend to agree that we might have overlooked some smaller skilled guys, but I don't think it has been egregious and I'm not sure that the results are in yet.

We're going to have to agree to disagree on the "leverage" thing. With 31 teams in the league, I just don't see how being open about what your team needs gives away anything. I wouldn't expect him to name player names, but talking about team needs and discussing what we could be looking for isn't giving away anything. It's not exactly like it's a big secret, anyhow. Everybody knows we're deep on defense, short on forwards, have plenty of cap space, and a new rich owner. It's not like Ronnie coming out and saying, "I'm looking for a top-6 center" and am hoping to get something done sooner than later, would be a shock to anyone. But it would tell the paying customers that he's not napping all day.

The entire league knows what we need, so it is even more important that the entire league does NOT know how we intend to go about getting it.

 

[MinJaBen]

One of my favorite players ever.

I was sad when he was named GM because I knew eventually the fan base would sour on him and I would be frustrated with him instead of being able to hold him on a pedestal of awesomeness in my head.

Yes! The curse of hiring your own legends is that it is you who will take them down. Never liked it when NC State did it, and I don't like it with the Canes either. Both Ronnie and Rod will likely have their legacy tarnished a bit by their coaching and management tenures.

 

[RodTheBawd]

Setting aside picking apart individual draft choices, do you guys think Francis and team stress size too much over skill? I think he's only drafted 2 skaters under 6' tall (Aho being one of them) out of about 35 picks since he took over. Granted, the % of guys > 6' is much higher so maybe it's no different than other teams, but it seems like he stresses it a ton.

98% of our O-zone time is spent on the boards and having guys like TT trying to play that style is a recipe for failure, so it kinda makes sense to be drafting big bodies that hopefully are a bit skilled. So I guess is it a matter of drafting to your coach's system or drafting BPA positional need?

 

[My Special Purpose]

The entire league knows what we need, so it is even more important that the entire league does NOT know how we intend to go about getting it.

Are we going to try cloning? 3D printing human tissue? Buying players on the black market?

How many options are there that we have to be more secretive than the Iraqi military? And again, I'm not talking about openly negotiating in the media. I'm saying, let us know you're alive and paying attention.

 

[NotOpie]

Are we going to try cloning? 3D printing human tissue? Buying players on the black market?

How many options are there that we have to be more secretive than the Iraqi military? And again, I'm not talking about openly negotiating in the media. I'm saying, let us know you're alive and paying attention.

Would that those options worked and we were the only team that perfected the process.

Seriously, I think it is as simple as who we would actually be willing to give up. While most of us here (and apparently GMRF) seemed unwilling to trade Noah Hanifin for Matt Duchene, until he spoke about it this summer, we wouldn't have known if that actually was the case. Having two teams "bid" against each other depends on some level of secrecy.

But you are right about a sense of willingness being a bit more public. Right now, if I'm a GM in this league and I hear Ron Francis say, "If there's a deal out there that makes my team better, then we're going to look at that", my assumption is that I couldn't possibly offer him what he would want.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Are we going to try cloning? 3D printing human tissue? Buying players on the black market?

How many options are there that we have to be more secretive than the Iraqi military? And again, I'm not talking about openly negotiating in the media. I'm saying, let us know you're alive and paying attention.

Guys... I may have access to Wayne Gretzky’s kidney.

Need to know what we’re doing with this in the next 45 minutes.

 

[NotOpie]

Guys... I may have access to Wayne Gretzky’s kidney.

Need to know what we’re doing with this in the next 45 minutes.

Now if it was a liver, that's a whole 'nother story....

 

[tarheelhockey]

Now if it was a liver, that's a whole 'nother story....

Ok let me check

 

[DaveG]

I want to see what Francis can do when he's not at a disadvantage of operating at a payroll that's 15M+ below the cap ceiling before I decide for sure on the guy. I mean that's literally the equivalent of 2 first line players in terms of salary, if not more considering the difference in people that wouldn't be on the roster otherwise.

 

[AD Skinner]

So can we have your liver then?

 

[Unsustainable]

I want to see what Francis can do when he's not at a disadvantage of operating at a payroll that's 15M+ below the cap ceiling before I decide for sure on the guy. I mean that's literally the equivalent of 2 first line players in terms of salary, if not more considering the difference in people that wouldn't be on the roster otherwise.

Or 1 JT

 

[DaveG]

So can we have your liver then?

I make beer, my liver would result in this not ending well.

Besides, I play like Darren Helm but skate like Hal Gill. That's just not a good combination that you want even possibly up in the works.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Important question - does it need to be the whole liver or just part of it?

Edit: Never mind, the liver thing fell through. Something about how our organization makes them non-viable after a time.

 

[NotOpie]

So can we have your liver then?

I make beer, my liver would result in this not ending well.

Besides, I play like Darren Helm but skate like Hal Gill. That's just not a good combination that you want even possibly up in the works.

Important question - does it need to be the whole liver or just part of it?

Edit: Never mind, the liver thing fell through. Something about how our organization makes them non-viable after a time.

You guys all beat me to it....my comment was going to be something like, "....of all the organs, currently that would be the most worthless one."

 

[HisIceness]

I'm fine with the small things he's done like trading for TT/Bickell (hate he had to retire early) for nothing and getting Stempniak for cheap (was supposed to be expansion fodder for Vegas but they didn't take him). Liked bringing back Justin Williams.

I actually liked the Darling trade at the time. I foolishly thought this dude was going to be our future #1 for the sheer fact that he was getting that chance and would have a competent blue-line. It looks bad now unfortunately, but shit happens.

I'm curious and also nervous as to what he will do with the likes of Skinner/Faulk/Hanifin etc. Someone significant on the roster is probably going to have to be moved at some point barring some crazy playoff run. He already got his "feet wet" with trading Eric Staal, but we all knew that was coming. Making a decision on a valuable asset for a small market team can't be screwed up. I trust he knows what he is doing, but I can't fully judge him until such a decision is made.

 

[tarheelhockey]

I'm fine with the small things he's done like trading for TT/Bickell (hate he had to retire early) for nothing and getting Stempniak for cheap (was supposed to be expansion fodder for Vegas but they didn't take him). Liked bringing back Justin Williams.

I actually liked the Darling trade at the time. I foolishly thought this dude was going to be our future #1 for the sheer fact that he was getting that chance and would have a competent blue-line. It looks bad now unfortunately, but **** happens.

I'm curious and also nervous as to what he will do with the likes of Skinner/Faulk/Hanifin etc. Someone significant on the roster is probably going to have to be moved at some point barring some crazy playoff run. He already got his "feet wet" with trading Eric Staal, but we all knew that was coming. Making a decision on a valuable asset for a small market team can't be screwed up. I trust he knows what he is doing, but I can't fully judge him until such a decision is made.

To me, the biggest question is what resources we have in our pro scouting that would allow us to make the right decision with a Skinner/Faulk level trade.

Screwing up with Lack and Darling is one thing. Not that we should be getting those wrong either, but goalies are a specialized position and don't necessarily reflect the organizational expertise as a whole. Given the way the organization has been run the past few years, I feel like the resources being put into scouting are a bit of a question mark. Are we giving these guys NHL-standard resources? I have no idea.

Here's our pro scouting staff:

Manager of Pro Scouting	Jeff Daniels
Pro Scout / Advisor	Joe Nieuwendyk
Pro Scouts	Dave Hunter Mark Craig
Video Scouting Coordinator	Trace Linton

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

The fact that Daniels is a "manager" and not a "director" isn't promising. TBH I forgot Nieuwendyk got a paycheck from this organization. Hunter is a total unknown to me outside of his NHL career. Mark Craig is a Karmanos guy from the Plymouth Whalers org, but he has enough experience that he seems legit.

Also, we quietly lost Ray Whitney as a scout this season when he went to work for the Department of Player Safety. I don't think he was replaced.

Is this a good scouting staff? I have no idea. But we really need them to be if we're going to start making "shakeup" type trades.

 

[garnetpalmetto]

To me, the biggest question is what resources we have in our pro scouting that would allow us to make the right decision with a Skinner/Faulk level trade.

Screwing up with Lack and Darling is one thing. Not that we should be getting those wrong either, but goalies are a specialized position and don't necessarily reflect the organizational expertise as a whole. Given the way the organization has been run the past few years, I feel like the resources being put into scouting are a bit of a question mark. Are we giving these guys NHL-standard resources? I have no idea.

Here's our pro scouting staff:

Manager of Pro Scouting	Jeff Daniels
Pro Scout / Advisor	Joe Nieuwendyk
Pro Scouts	Dave Hunter Mark Craig
Video Scouting Coordinator	Trace Linton

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

The fact that Daniels is a "manager" and not a "director" isn't promising. TBH I forgot Nieuwendyk got a paycheck from this organization. Hunter is a total unknown to me outside of his NHL career. Mark Craig is a Karmanos guy from the Plymouth Whalers org, but he has enough experience that he seems legit.

Also, we quietly lost Ray Whitney as a scout this season when he went to work for the Department of Player Safety. I don't think he was replaced.

Is this a good scouting staff? I have no idea. But we really need them to be if we're going to start making "shakeup" type trades.

In terms of size, that's not far off the mark. Here's Pittsburgh for comparison:

Director of Professional Scouting	Derek Clancey
Professional Scouts	Al Santilli Ryan Bowness

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Or let's look at Nashville

Professional Scouts

Nick Beverley Rob Cowie Shawn Dineen

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

I'd have to take more than a cursory look but a 3-5 person pro scouting shop seems to be amount the norm.

 

[The Faulker 27]

I'm angry at the team and the result this year, so my emotional response is get rid of. Obviously the rational response is he deserves a year under Dundon and or course it's not entirely on him. That being said I voted to boot his ass to the moon.

 

[bluedevil58]

I guess the final straw for me was watching him whiff on Darling and failing to correct it and then whiff on getting Evander Kane here for what was probably only going to be a 2nd round pick. He has been too conservative and it is really starting to show and hurt the team. Should he stay or go and please state why. At first, the "We like our group." was funny but now it is just old and depressing since that is what we always seem to hear.

 

[dogbazinho]

1 more year. Has to have an off season w/ new ownership.