Pointing the finger at Bergevin?

[Richiebottles]

Galchenyuks' development has stalled big time.

That is on Therrien and Bergevin IMO.

And his development is the most important thing for this franchise right now.

I continue to maintain that Bergevin has become pretty overrated and he inherited quite a good core of players. He's had some questionable trades I feel, and his UFA signings have almost all been busts as well.

Really only Prust has been a solid UFA signing for them for a long period of time.

Moen for Gonchar
Collberg + 2nd for Vanek
Sekac for DSP
2nd + 5th for Petry
7th and another pick for Flynn and Mitchell

All clear wins for us IMO.

 

[Lebowski]

Moen for Gonchar
Collberg + 2nd for Vanek
Sekac for DSP
2nd + 5th for Petry
7th and another pick for Flynn and Mitchell

All clear wins for us IMO.

The Sekac's one was a clear loss as far as I'm concerned.

 

[HabsDieHard*]

I'd argue that if anything he made the Breire signing worse, but I do believe Parenteau has the potential to be a solid contributor yet.

I'd love to see a Pacioretty-Eller-Parenteau line. Not sure why having Pacioretty and Eller together at Even Strength has never been explored.

 

[HabsDieHard*]

The Sekac's one was a clear loss as far as I'm concerned.

Gonchar was a 4.6 cap hit for the team this year and he's not even playing in the playoffs.

Bergevin also badly overplayed/misplayed the Bourque situation. Considering how poorly he performed and then Anaheim was able to use him as a cap dump in a trade still I think it's quite fair to say that last Summer he could have gotten more value for Bourque than 2 million in dead space on the nHL roster this year.

Moen also wasn't really hurting the teams' cap structure at all and this Summer with 1 year left they could have probably snagged a 5th round pick for him.

There has been a clear need to get more offence from the forwards, since Bergevin came to the team, and yet there remains to be any improvement there.

In fact the only key contributor offensively on this team who wasn't with the organization prior to Bergevins' hiring is Galchenyuk, who was a 3rd overlal pick who is right now trending very poorly.

Dude inherited a great core of players, hired and extended a bozo for a coach, and hasn't addressed the one big weakness this team has has for years.

And I will give him credit if he signs Petry this Summer...but if not that's 2 years in a row moving out 2nd round picks for rentals.

For a supposed "rebuilding" or "transitioning" or "insert empty phrase here" team that doesn't really make sense.

So that could go either way.

 

[Apoplectic Habs Fan]

Moen for Gonchar
Collberg + 2nd for Vanek
Sekac for DSP
2nd + 5th for Petry
7th and another pick for Flynn and Mitchell

All clear wins for us IMO.

DSP is useless. No offense, doesnt pk, rarely hits.

Frankly malholtras faceoff ability is more useful. They both bring no offense.

Sekac can skate and pk. Least when not scoring, thats useful

 

[Richiebottles]

The Sekac's one was a clear loss as far as I'm concerned.

He is a healthy scratch more often then not.

 

[HabsDieHard*]

People also use that Sekac isn't playing as "evidence" that the Habs did a smart trade there, but that's a deep line up and he's a new player. Wouldn't surprise me at all to see him as a solid top 9 NHL'er.

Smith-Pelley? He has brought nothing that Bryan Flynn couldn't.

His one thing he has going for him, his physicality, also seems to play a pretty fair sized role in his lack of speed.

It reeks of Boston type approach to building a team.

Moar grind!

So dumb.

 

[Richiebottles]

People also use that Sekac isn't playing as "evidence" that the Habs did a smart trade there, but that's a deep line up and he's a new player. Wouldn't surprise me at all to see him as a solid top 9 NHL'er.

Smith-Pelley? He has brought nothing that Bryan Flynn couldn't.

His one thing he has going for him, his physicality, also seems to play a pretty fair sized role in his lack of speed.

It reeks of Boston type approach to building a team.

Moar grind!

So dumb.

How is Chicago built ? LA built ? Size and skill. You can't have a team full of dangle first offensive players that don't hit to win a cup. We had that in 2010, look where it got us.

MB is smart enough to address the scoring in the off season. Building is a process. It doesn't happen overnight.

 

[Lebowski]

Gonchar was a 4.6 cap hit for the team this year and he's not even playing in the playoffs.

Gonchar was a great move. He helped a ton this season and it allows us to clear space for next year. I don't care about his current cap-hit. He's off the books in two months and we couldn't have spent the money elsewhere even if we wanted to.

Bergevin also badly overplayed/misplayed the Bourque situation. Considering how poorly he performed and then Anaheim was able to use him as a cap dump in a trade still I think it's quite fair to say that last Summer he could have gotten more value for Bourque than 2 million in dead space on the nHL roster this year.

Don't care much for Bourque either. Good on Bob Murray for getting something better out of him, but Bergevin ends up clearing space for next year yet again with that move. Can't complain.

Moen also wasn't really hurting the teams' cap structure at all and this Summer with 1 year left they could have probably snagged a 5th round pick for him.

Moen was bad and brought nothing someone else couldn't do for cheaper. He had to go, and Bergevin did what he had to do.

There has been a clear need to get more offence from the forwards, since Bergevin came to the team, and yet there remains to be any improvement there.

There wasn't much available on the market this season. None of the guys that got moved at the deadline could have possibly solved any of our offensive issues, which I believe are just as much structural as they are personnel related. He got us Vanek last season and most people around here wanted to chase him out of town after the playoffs.

In fact the only key contributor offensively on this team who wasn't with the organization prior to Bergevins' hiring is Galchenyuk, who was a 3rd overlal pick who is right now trending very poorly.

Galchenyuk is trending poorly now? Let's pump the brakes a little. A 21 year old going through a slump after a career best for goals and points despite playing in less than an optimal position, and he's trending poorly? Is RNH trending poorly? MacKinnon? Barkov? Huberdeau? Drouin? Yakupov?

People need to be patient with the kid. Some of the stuff I read on his subject is just baffling.

Bergevin as done plenty of wrong by my book, but to me you're just reaching here.

He is a healthy scratch more often then not.

I couldn't careless about what's going on in Anaheim. He's a better player than DSP, that's all there is to it.

 

[G0bias]

He's done some decent to good moves. Mostly for depth players.
Petry being the best one in my opinion, if he re-signs.

That said, the Brière signing was absolutely useless.

 

[Leon Lucius Black]

Can't just blame MT/MB for Galchenyuk's development stalling, he's been given plenty of minutes and has done next to nothing the last couple of months. People **** on Therrien for loving Desharnais and giving him so many minutes, but Bergevin giving him that contract just made no sense.

With Chucky/DLR both better at centre Bergevin has to do whatever it takes to get rid of DD by the start of next year... one thing he's been good at is getting rid of bad contracts so hope he can do it again.

As much as I want Chucky to be our top line centre I wouldn't have a problem at all going into next year with Chucky starting out as our third line centre against weaker lines and working his way up. I don't think Eller would have a problem as our second line C and he deserves a legit chance in our top 6 for once.

If Scherbak is ready an interesting third line could be Prust - Galchenyuk - Scherbak, use it against weaker lines like the Prust/Chucky/Gally line was used 2 years ago and see if Alex/Nikita can build some chemistry in the NHL together.

 

[Whitesnake]

I will also never understand the length of that DD contract. Never. DD has NO leverage. Nothing. I mean it's mind-boggling to thinks that this contract was actually a negotiation. Can somebody really convince me that DD was actually asking more than what he received? Seriously?

 

[Whitesnake]

He is a healthy scratch more often then not.

Healthy scratch in Anaheim is not a Healthy scratch in Buffalo. Mind you, I really thought he'd had beaten a couple of guys that are in the present lineup for Anaheim....Still, this is not about that. Look at our top 6. You don't think that Sekac could have done a better job than DSP, Weise or Parenteau? How is it possible for Sekac to do a worst job on the PP than those guys?

 

[HabsDieHard*]

Gonchar and Allen accounted about 6.5 million in cap space this season.

Don't you think that could have been used in a more beneficial way?

Bourque had 8 goals last spring and just 2.5 million as opposed to 3.33 cap hit for the last 2 years of his deal...you're telling me they couldn't have done better than a guy who they sent to the AHL and cost 2 million on the NHL cap?

People always just talk about clearing the cap space next year, but they wasted just as much cap space this season if not more actually than they will save next year.

Gonchar was okay, but I think it's quite telling that despite Beaulieu going down and Pateryn being so inexperienced that Gonchar has not come into the line up.

And as well when people talk about the saved cap space they don't seem to acknowledge that this Summer Moen could have been a guy who they could deal for a late pick.

Galchenyuk is young and there's plenty to be excited about but if you're going to tell me that you think he's significantly better today than in October 2012 I'm going to have to disagree wtih you.

He's older, more experienced, and more physically mature as well...but he simply does not look like a guy who is trending in the right direction.

Whether it's a slump or not, he's has a pretty brutal couple of months now.

And also, whether you want to say he's played well or improved or what have you...he was called a center when he was drafted. To date he's had like 20 games at center in the NHL.

Everyone will point at the collection of elite point producers who spent some time on the wing early in their careers, and yell out Tyler Seguin until they're blue in the face but can anyone offer me a plausible and logical explanation as to why Galchenyuk hasn't played center?

It's certainly not like Boston where they had 2 top 30 centers and a need to find a way to get Seguin big time offensive minutes.

As to waht was on the market or not on the market, this team needs more offence. There are plenty of examples of teams who spent varying amounts of picks/prospects to improve their offence. In any event, Bergevin has had 3!!!! years to improve the offence.

Go and look at the Habs roster to start the 2012/2013 season and look at it now and tell me that it's much better.

Hell, just even from the team post deadline 2013/2014 to this season the team has taken a dramatic step in the wrong direction.

Yes Gionta is old and not very good anymore but he was a solid 20+ goal guy for this team o nthe right side for many years. Vanek was obviously just with the team for a short time, but Briere definitely out produced Parenteau.

The team went to the ECF last year, and lost in 6 even though Price got injured in game 1.

And his work on the forwards from then until this years' deadline was to replace Vanek, Gionta and Briere with Parenteau, Smith Pelley and....uhh, Weise?

Of course it's hard improving a team, through trades or UFA or drafting. But it's a GM's job.

This team has 2 elite players with incredibly team friendly contracts and 2 close to elite veteran forwards who don't have many years left of high end play and in Markovs' case he might not be a 25 minute d-man anymore moving forward. Thye also have PK Subban making a fair for both sides 9 million.

And on top of that, for this season Galchenyuk/Gallagher were still on their ELC deals giving the Habs tremendous bang for their back except that despite that they were not able to haveanyt semblance of offensive depth at forward.

I don't know how anyone can say Bergevin hasn't failed in improving this teams' offence since being hired.

 

[hockeyfan2k11]

Moen for Gonchar
Collberg + 2nd for Vanek
Sekac for DSP
2nd + 5th for Petry
7th and another pick for Flynn and Mitchell

All clear wins for us IMO.

You think the Vanek deal was good?
Moen for Gonchar? Gonchar isn't even playing. It's a tie at best.

Seakac for DSP...Does DSP have a goal yet? Too early to tell but looks like a loss or again a tie at best

2nd+5th for Petry - good deal if we sign Petry.
Mitchell and Flynn deals are deals any GM can make. I'm sorry. I'll give MB credit as a top GM when he makes legit deals. Any GM can get 3rd and 4th line depth. His attempts to improve the top 6/9 have all failed.

 

[hockeyfan2k11]

How is Chicago built ? LA built ? Size and skill. You can't have a team full of dangle first offensive players that don't hit to win a cup. We had that in 2010, look where it got us.

MB is smart enough to address the scoring in the off season. Building is a process. It doesn't happen overnight.

What is the difference between 2010 and now?

The goaltender. People forget this. If Price of 5 years ago was playing for this team now...neither Bergie or MT would have jobs. In addition, Max and PK were nowhere near where they are now. If anything, give Gauthier and Gainey credit. MB frankly hasn't done anything yet.

 

[hockeyfan2k11]

I will also never understand the length of that DD contract. Never. DD has NO leverage. Nothing. I mean it's mind-boggling to thinks that this contract was actually a negotiation. Can somebody really convince me that DD was actually asking more than what he received? Seriously?

I didn't understand it then and I don't now. Same with Emelin. MB seems like a guy who's doesn't negotiate and hands out contracts.....but then he tries to play hardball with PK. The optics just don't make any sense.

 

[TheBlindFan]

What is the difference between 2010 and now?

The goaltender. People forget this. If Price of 5 years ago was playing for this team now...neither Bergie or MT would have jobs. In addition, Max and PK were nowhere near where they are now. If anything, give Gauthier and Gainey credit. MB frankly hasn't done anything yet.

difference? we are winning more then losing, it huge! Gauthier was great in picking players, but it's seem like a circle in the locker room.... He was more them bad in term of trading. Player who went away (UFA, or trade) alway had bad think to say about the management...

We're not struggling to make the PO anymore. We are fighting for the top position of the NHL! It's refreshing!

Maybe the result are too good for the current roster at the moment... It's cannot be a bad thing!

go HABS go! Let's win this!

 

[Richiebottles]

You think the Vanek deal was good?
Moen for Gonchar? Gonchar isn't even playing. It's a tie at best.

Seakac for DSP...Does DSP have a goal yet? Too early to tell but looks like a loss or again a tie at best

2nd+5th for Petry - good deal if we sign Petry.
Mitchell and Flynn deals are deals any GM can make. I'm sorry. I'll give MB credit as a top GM when he makes legit deals. Any GM can get 3rd and 4th line depth. His attempts to improve the top 6/9 have all failed.

You think the Vanek deal was bad ? Are you for real ??? Anyone would say that was a steal... Come on man.

You forget how bad Moen was and Gonch was very good for us when we had him in the lineup.

I am sure people in this thread as negative just to get reactions..... Ugh. So frustrating.

No teams were trading for top 6 players at this deadline. I would like to see what you would have done being in his spot.

 

[Bourdon101]

I agree that MB has yet to make his mark on the team, but that is not necessarily a bad thing. Yes, he inherited the good core we have, but look at it this way: there has not been any major (and in retrospect, good) FA forward signings during his stay across the NHL. Trading for a top player costs, and would have probably messed with the good core he inherited.

Would you rather have a GM that rushes moves? I would not. Most of the more active GMs that try to fetch top players end up losing, because you overpay. Tell me, what deal could MB have done to improve the team in the last three years without overpaying? You cannot blame him for being patient, and building through the draft.

Of course he has the same core the Habs had three years ago, but why blame him for it? That core is good as far as i'm concerned, and I cant think of a way to bring a top forward without messing with it. The main issue is behind the bench, and that you can actually blame him for.

 

[Mario Lemieux fan 66]

My biggest fear with Bergevin is that he will not sacrifice future (Tinordi, Fucale, 1st round pick, Scherbak or Hudon) for a strong playoff push. Sacrifice future for an older player ready to contribute during the Habs Stanley Cup window.

I don't want the Habs to be the next: Ottawa, San Jose, Washington or Vancouver and miss our Stanley Cup window by just being happy to be in the playoff like the current management seems to feel. The once in playoff everything can happen philosophy is just pure ********.

 

[ECWHSWI]

You think the Vanek deal was good?
Moen for Gonchar? Gonchar isn't even playing. It's a tie at best.

Seakac for DSP...Does DSP have a goal yet? Too early to tell but looks like a loss or again a tie at best

2nd+5th for Petry - good deal if we sign Petry.
Mitchell and Flynn deals are deals any GM can make. I'm sorry. I'll give MB credit as a top GM when he makes legit deals. Any GM can get 3rd and 4th line depth. His attempts to improve the top 6/9 have all failed.

we acquired Vanek for a LATE 2nd and a prospect who looks like he wont make it to the NHL. This kind of "package" usually gets you depth players at TDL.

Moen wasnt playing much for us either, Gonchar isnt playing cause Habs acquired another RD (Petry) after that, he did help a lot in replacing Gilbert on the 2nd pair.

Wether we sign Petry or not is irrelevant, his playing great hockey, even took Subban/markov spot at times and was solid doing so, Without him, Gilbert is playing on our 2nd pair.

 

[Davebo*]

Moen for Gonchar? Gonchar isn't even playing. It's a tie at best.

Seakac for DSP...Does DSP have a goal yet? Too early to tell but looks like a loss or again a tie at best

Your argument about Gonchar is countered by the fact Sekac has been a healthy scratch all playoffs.

 

[hockeyfan2k11]

we acquired Vanek for a LATE 2nd and a prospect who looks like he wont make it to the NHL. This kind of "package" usually gets you depth players at TDL.

Moen wasnt playing much for us either, Gonchar isnt playing cause Habs acquired another RD (Petry) after that, he did help a lot in replacing Gilbert on the 2nd pair.

Wether we sign Petry or not is irrelevant, his playing great hockey, even took Subban/markov spot at times and was solid doing so, Without him, Gilbert is playing on our 2nd pair.

Wasn't PK a 2nd rounder? Gallagher we got in which round? And a prospect who was highly regarded until he got traded. Funny how that happens. We have no idea how Colberg will pan out but he's still a 2nd round pick. So 2 2nd rounders for a rental from a guy who stresses building through the draft.

Wasn't a good deal. I said this back then.

Moen could actually add something in the playoffs. Gonchar was not needed. I don't see how this is a win. We could have gotten Petry without Moen. Gonchar =/= Petry. Gilbert was supposed to be our Petry...but he hasn't panned out like should have.

Whether he does sign IS relevant because again, MB had always stressed about building through the draft and not giving away picks. If Petry doesn't sign that's 3 picks and a prospect for Petry and Vanek who could be playing on other teams.

That's what Gainey and Guthier used to do. I thought MB was different?

I think picks are even more important for Habs since Timmins is pretty damn good at drafting legit NHL players. I'd much rather give Timmins as many high quality picks as I can than make marginal trades and not add any talent to the roster.

 

[hockeyfan2k11]

Your argument about Gonchar is countered by the fact Sekac has been a healthy scratch all playoffs.

Sekac is a healthy scratch on a roster full of top end talent. He's not even a full time NHL player yet just starting his career. Gonchar is 41 freaking years old and will not play another game. He's behind such dynamos as Emelin and Gilbert.

You don't see the difference?