Post-Game Talk: Plus-Minus Thread | Rangers 6, Penguins 1 | Insert sarcastic title here

[Captain Hook]

March 31, 1990
Penguins 3
Rangers 6



April 16 1991
Penguins 1
Rangers 7

That's a great stat. The March game is from 1991 and the April game is from 1992. We went on to win the Cup in 1991 and 1992 despite those two off nights against the Rangers.

 

[Waffle Fries]

Just a fun little fact that I missed earlier, but Morrow actually got his first point as a Penguin tonight.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

If Shero knew he was going to get Iginla I doubt he'd make the Morrow deal but there was no way to know that ahead of time. I think the point in getting Morrow was exactly what we saw in the Jets game. He parked himself in front of the net all game and let Malkin and Neal do their thing on the perimeter. The acquisition of Iggy leaves no room for him in the top 6 though and consequently he's looked pretty worthless on lower lines.

This is where I hope Bylsma does some experimenting, instead of worrying about keeping certain combinations together and just shoving the new additions into places they might not fit.

For instance, Kunitz and Dupuis worked because of some kid named Sid. Kunitz and Dupuis aren't necessarily Hull and Oates on their own. It's okay to experiment putting them on separate lines.

We've had a big enough roster overhaul that Bylsma should be using the final month to find the best combinations for all four lines now with the new guys included, not just sticking to his old lineup but inserting the new guys in.

This is one of the main reasons I hated hearing him say he wasn't going to break up the Kunitz - Crosby - Dupuis line. Why not? Why not at least *try* to see if Iginla on that line would work better? Worst case scenario is, if he doesn't fit, you can always put Dupuis back up there.

Hopefully he'll do more experimenting, rather than just go with ...

Kunitz - X - Dupuis
X - Malkin - Neal
Cooke - Sutter - X
Glass - Adams - Kennedy

...and insert the new guys where the Xs are.

 

[MonsterSurge]

Does anyone else cheer for Vitale when he is just skating around? He's the best at it.

 

[Captain Hook]

This is where I hope Bylsma does some experimenting, instead of worrying about keeping certain combinations together and just shoving the new additions into places they might not fit.

For instance, Kunitz and Dupuis worked because of some kid named Sid. Kunitz and Dupuis aren't necessarily Hull and Oates on their own. It's okay to experiment putting them on separate lines.

We've had a big enough roster overhaul that Bylsma should be using the final month to find the best combinations for all four lines now with the new guys included, not just sticking to his old lineup but inserting the new guys in.

This is one of the main reasons I hated hearing him say he wasn't going to break up the Kunitz - Crosby - Dupuis line. Why not? Why not at least *try* to see if Iginla on that line would work better? Worst case scenario is, if he doesn't fit, you can always put Dupuis back up there.

Hopefully he'll do more experimenting, rather than just go with ...

Kunitz - X - Dupuis
X - Malkin - Neal
Cooke - Sutter - X
Glass - Adams - Kennedy

...and insert the new guys where the Xs are.

I agree.

 

[MrBurghundy]

If Bylsma has proven one thing as a head coach, its that he's completely inept at fielding the best lineup night in and night out. Also when he juggles the lines, it really has no rhyme or reason.

 

[MtlPenFan]

Colligan didn't write this, but he linked it. Very interesting article about Murray.

Mike Colligan ‏@MikeColligan 31m
Very critical, but insightful analysis of Douglas Murray's issues in San Jose and how he might hurt the #Pens offense

http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1rjitff

 

[titaniumexpose]

Bylsma looked liked Michael Douglas in Falling Down in the post game presser. I hope he flips **** on the team like Mikey would.

Also is it just me or does Morrow fall down a lot?

Where did you see/find the post game presser at? And Falling Down is an awesome movie, btw.

 

[stardog]

It's bizarre. I know everyone here keeps saying it, and I keep saying it but Neal and Iggy both need to be on the right. His obsession with that Kunitz-Sid-Dupuis line is hurting the team.

Wait, what????

Agree with the first part somewhat but the last sentence is... well, really out there. That line has arguably been the best in the NHL this season and was a catalyst for the win streak. In no way, shape or form has it done anything but help this team to where it is.

I'm all for keeping that line together when Sid is healthy. 100%.

 

[MrBurghundy]

Wait, what????

Agree with the first part somewhat but the last sentence is... well, really out there. That line has arguably been the best in the NHL this season and was a catalyst for the win streak. In no way, shape or form has it done anything but help this team to where it is.

I'm all for keeping that line together when Sid is healthy. 100%.

I'd keep that Sid line together too for the time being, but I wouldn't be married to it either if it falters in the playoffs.

 

[Dick Sledge]

Where did you see/find the post game presser at? And Falling Down is an awesome movie, btw.

The Pens website has it up.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Understood, but BOTH of them should be playing. From what I'm seeing, Beau should be playing over Morrow as well. It's too early, but Morrow's exactly what I feared he would be.

BB should be in the lineup based just on his defensive play. He was always cleaning up his own end so well, especially in the dangerous areas. He just has an innate ability to know where the puck is going to be and makes the right reads consistently. Not to mention his hard work on the back check and the way he angles the puck carrier to the boards.

Malkin and he were also developing chemistry as well. BB earned his place in the lineup and he does all of the little things this team really needs right now.

I just feel better when he is on the ice, especially in his own end.

 

[MrBurghundy]

BB should be in the lineup based just on his defensive play. He was always cleaning up his own end so well, especially in the dangerous areas. He just has an innate ability to know where the puck is going to be and makes the right reads consistently. Not to mention his hard work on the back check and the way he angles the puck carrier to the boards.

Malkin and he were also developing chemistry as well. BB earned his place in the lineup and he does all of the little things this team really needs right now.

I just feel better when he is on the ice, especially in his own end.

Thankfully we traded Morrow for Morrow to nip that radical idea in the bud.

...well that among other things.

 

[Killswitch7187]

Missed the game due to work, and by the sounds of it, that's a good thing. I'm just going to assume it was exactly like the Sabres game where we had no transition offense, and couldn't get the puck out of our own zone.

People can say we're really missing Crosby and Letang, but the effects of having no Paul Martin are being seen NOW. We have a great forward line-up even now, but it's no use when you can't get the puck up to them. And when we finally do, the other team already has their system set and able to keep our forwards from doing any real damage. Exactly proving why PMD are a premium in today's NHL. Get well soon, Kris and Paul.

 

[Tender Rip]

Didn't read the rest of the thread. It was enough watching the entire game.

I don't know that any Pens player played well in this game. If I should pick any it would probably be Sutter who at least seemed to care.

After the quick fire goals in the middle of the first, the team however didn't care. They might say the care, but I know they didn't care...

And you know what, no longer fighting for the streak, having a death choke on the division and still looking quite good for the Conference.... with our top 2 D-men and the best player in the world out.... that **** can happen. And with this team, it happens some times regardless. This was the same kind of effort we saw when we lost at home to the Islanders, and when we lost at Carolina and Florida. Just really, really weak effort combined with terrible penalty killing. Fortunately there can be no sugar coating that this was just not OK, so hopefully the blamage of it will motivate them to get the **** back to work in the re-match.


What matters to me is that with all the toys Bylsma has been handed (damn you Shero for giving him Jussi too ), it is imperative that he doesn't go too stubborn now. He must be able to realize some of the more noticeable flaws here.

Front and center concern is Geno's line. I have already said enough about that, I assume that KIRK and others have been filling the thread with similar observations....
It was counter intuitive to even put this line together in the first place, and what makes it the more dumb is that it is so EASY to understand what Geno needs. You just look at what he had in any of the seasons where he has been great. It barges out at you.

Kennedy at C. Why the **** is that happening now? Jeffrey was one of the few players who actually looked decent against Buffalo and he gets scratched - so we can play Kennedy at C once again? It might be that Kennedy as a C was the first thing Bylsma thought when Crosby went down, but after seeing it in action, he better flippin unthink that. He can do that simultaneously with re-considering the need to start the 16th best forward on our roster every game.


This game was not on Bylsma. Not saying that. The coach should not be culpable when the players just lie down. But when we get to the playoffs, Bylsma better get stuff right.

 

[Rocket of Russia]

Colligan didn't write this, but he linked it. Very interesting article about Murray.

Mike Colligan ‏@MikeColligan 31m
Very critical, but insightful analysis of Douglas Murray's issues in San Jose and how he might hurt the #Pens offense

http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1rjitff

Well that was a buzzkill.

So what the article - although obviously biased - infers is that you've got to keep him on the 3rd pairing and PK time. I think this team can manage that.

Letang/?
Martin/Orpik
Murray/?

And in those ?s you have Niskanen, Despres, Eaton or Engelland. That's not easy in terms of who you'd be comfortable with out there for 1st pairing minutes.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Thankfully we traded Morrow for Morrow to nip that radical idea in the bud.

...well that among other things.

It's still hard for me to accept that trade, but I have no choice. I wanted Morrow for the fourth line to replace Glass. I figured a third or fourth rounder would of done it. It was obvious from watching him he wasn't fast enough to be effective in the top six, but never imagined Shero and his scouts would watch him and see a guy you give up a top prospect for.

But he did and I'm worried Morrow will be forced into a role he isn't right for, because of it. BB made the Malkin line better because of his skill and defensive work. I think Morrow will get put there over him and he is too slow... He is having big time problems covering his zone from the circles to the point... It's worrisome...

It is early, but he isn't going to get faster though.

 

[Rocket of Russia]

BB made the Malkin line better because of his skill and defensive work. I think Morrow will get put there over him and he is too slow... He is having big time problems covering his zone from the circles to the point... It's worrisome...

It is early, but he isn't going to get faster though.

It's very noticeable. It hasn't resulted in goals directly but so many open lanes and shots with traffic easily finding their way through, but somehow getting deflected wide.

 

[Slabber Chops]

Just watched the lowlights on NHL.COM. Only one logical explanation, Fleury's been out for a while so they wanted to give him to see as much rubber as possible <sarcasm>

 

[Tender Rip]

Well that was a buzzkill.

So what the article - although obviously biased - infers is that you've got to keep him on the 3rd pairing and PK time. I think this team can manage that.

Letang/?
Martin/Orpik
Murray/?

And in those ?s you have Niskanen, Despres, Eaton or Engelland. That's not easy in terms of who you'd be comfortable with out there for 1st pairing minutes.

And this is why it is such a shame that Bylsma didn't give Despres extensive time wit Letang earlier in the season. Because they just fit. At this point of the season it isn't going to happen. It will be Murray Letang, guaranteed.

NB: but that might also work, mind.

 

[Rocket of Russia]

And this is why it is such a shame that Bylsma didn't give Despres extensive time wit Letang earlier in the season. Because they just fit. At this point of the season it isn't going to happen. It will be Murray Letang, guaranteed.

NB: but that might also work, mind.

We of course need to get used to operating under the DB assumption, which is, if all are healthy, Despres is a healthy scratch without question.

Personally I think it's going to be Niskanen. I can't believe DB is going to put such a new body who wasn't playing first pairing minutes in San Jose into our "new" system and expect him to hold down 22-24 minutes a night.

 

[ColePens]

1) I'm not buying that Murray article one bit. I'm telling you from watching him skate, he's not as bad as people think. His transition game is 10x better than I expected it. In fact, it's better than Gill's. And Gill worked just fine.

2) The team not trying was weird, but I really believe it's for the better. They thought they could cost and now were outscored 10-2. That's a quick wake up call to how hard you have to work.

3) Yes..lines.. yes. Tender killed it and is right. Jiggy is spot on, too. It's imperative that he realizes that. He did in 09 when Satan was used in the 4th line and Sykora was scratched. I wonder what he does.

 

[Rocket of Russia]

1) I'm not buying that Murray article one bit. I'm telling you from watching him skate, he's not as bad as people think. His transition game is 10x better than I expected it. In fact, it's better than Gill's. And Gill worked just fine.

That's why I think Niskanen goes on the top pairing with Letang. A lot of these moves are mimicking what was done in 2009. Murray and Eaton can be 2013's Gill and Scuderi.

Murray used in that role can be effective IMO. Paired with Letang and playing top pairing minutes...not so much.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I still believe the Neal Malkin Iggy line will be dominant if it has time to gel, but the other lines are putrid right now and I want to see BB back with Malkin and Neal.

I don't watch Car. much, but if JJ is as bad as Mtl says, I dunno. He did get put on waivers for a reason, but we will see. DB said he will center Dupuis and Kunitz, but I don't know if that will help them much. They need to balance out the lines for now.

I just think a lineup like this makes more sense to spread out the scoring:

BB Malkin Neal
Kunitz Sutter Iggy
Cooke JJ Dupuis
Morrow Vitale Adams

Do the right thing and sit TK and Glass.

 

[stardog]

I still like this team and am confident about the possibility of winning the cup this year.

Having said that, even during the streak there were problems on the horizon which needed to be addressed. I am not confident we did that. The Morrow trade, I really wasn't a huge fan of at the time, and I've seen nothing to change my mind.
I was okay with the Murray deal, and I still am, because he filled an area of need and he does it well. However, that area does not include him playing 20 minutes a night. In no game should he see that many minutes, yet due to injury, this is what we are forced to rely upon.

This teams success is due in large part, and predicated on speed. Speed to get to the puck, giving us an extra split second of timing to make an actual play. Or speed to get to the puck, taking away an opponents time and space thus negating a play or forcing a bad play.

The new players gave us an infusion of needed grit and toughness. It gave us some smart players and leaders. It also made us slower and we are using slower players in important minutes.

Our defense really misses Letang, which is further compounded my the absence of Martin...two players who aren't just capable of playing big minutes, but actually thrive in that role. As it stands right now, our defense looks slow, old and exposed. Niskanen (whom I single out not because he is any worse than Orpik, Murray, Engelland or Eaton as a minute muncher, but because he shouldn't look as old as he seems to be playing) is a micrchasm of this. When he plays out of his element, to many minutes, then he looks awful. We have guys who would be perfect playing a 4-6 role forced into playing a 1-3 role due to injury.

Well injuries are going to happen as were all unfortunately far to familiar with. As such, and with the new infusion, you get a lot of guys who are unfamiliar either playing in an uncertain role, playing with each other, or both. They certainly need time to gel and that's quite understandable. If, given that time and they still are unable to adjust, I'm hoping that the management has the courage and knowledge to put in the players who are more capable of playing the speed game regardless of the name on the back of the sweater.

Kudos to Shero for taking a swing at bringing in some big names. Time will tell if they were the right names.
I'm still of the belief that this is the team to beat in the east, don't get me wrong. But obviously, there's alot of work to be done still....that and getting three key players back from injury as well as a fully healthy Malkin who obviously isn't himself.
Cheers!