Post-Game Talk: Plus-Minus Thread | Opener edition | Penguins 3, Devils 0

[Fire Shero*]

Agreed, Sutter is going to be a goat this year, not well liked.

 

[ByeBye]

Oh there are many reasons to doubt.

I was merely saying that it was good to see Fleury playing more fundamentally sound hockey instead of relying on his reflexes to bail him out. But a good sign does not eliminate the skepticism.

Fair enough. I also did not mean to call you a Fleury apologist (although when rereading my post I saw that one could think that).

It's just that I have been in Sweden for a couple of days and as I return, the tone concerning Fleury seems to have become increasinly friendly.
And I don't agree with that.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Fair enough. I also did not mean to call you a Fleury apologist (although when rereading my post I saw that one could think that).

It's just that I have been in Sweden for a couple of days and as I return, the tone concerning Fleury seems to have become increasinly friendly.
And I don't agree with that.

I have however, always had the feeling that we would cut ties with Fleury, perhaps next year, and that he would sign with a defensive oriented team and put up some great numbers. Similar to how Niskanen looked terrible with Dallas, but once he was properly paired with a linemate who could cover up for his deficiencies and enable him to do what he did best he looked worlds better.

Maybe Fleury is not the best fit for the type of team that this team is. This certainly is his last chance here, and the changes that I saw in the game yesterday, if he can keep them up, are the only way that he stays here.

 

[alcanalz]

I have however, always had the feeling that we would cut ties with Fleury, perhaps next year, and that he would sign with a defensive oriented team and put up some great numbers. Similar to how Niskanen looked terrible with Dallas, but once he was properly paired with a linemate who could cover up for his deficiencies and enable him to do what he did best he looked worlds better.

Maybe Fleury is not the best fit for the type of team that this team is. This certainly is his last chance here, and the changes that I saw in the game yesterday, if he can keep them up, are the only way that he stays here.

He's looked that good last year, and the year before, for a game or a couple weeks or a couple months. It's only going to be the playoffs that matter as long as he's capable during the regular season. He needs to not let in brutal goals in the postseason for him to stay in Pittsburgh after this season, that's all that's going to matter.

 

[66-30-33]

I have however, always had the feeling that we would cut ties with Fleury, perhaps next year, and that he would sign with a defensive oriented team and put up some great numbers. Similar to how Niskanen looked terrible with Dallas, but once he was properly paired with a linemate who could cover up for his deficiencies and enable him to do what he did best he looked worlds better.

Maybe Fleury is not the best fit for the type of team that this team is. This certainly is his last chance here, and the changes that I saw in the game yesterday, if he can keep them up, are the only way that he stays here.

Pens buyout Fleury
Blues sign Fleury 3M for 2 years
Fleury wins Vezina

 

[Nietzsche Zone Play]

You said it yourself, he isn't going to learn anything in London. That's the bottom line for me. I said it before and I'll say it again: keep playing him until he plays himself off the team.

not going to learn anything? London (under Hunter) is well-known as probably the top defensive breeding grounds in juniors. it might be true to say he would learn more playing 12-14 minutes a night in the NHL but he's certainly going to learn a lot in London while playing 24+ mins/night.

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

Agreed, Sutter is going to be a goat this year, not well liked.

My problem with Sutter is that he has no intensity whatsoever and gets ragdolled by practically everyone he's up against in a board battle. He does have good defensive instincts and that's great, but him and his line are incapable of applying any sustained offensive pressure whatsoever since he's so easily pushed off the puck. I was hoping for Sutter to take the next step this season, but i guess we'll just have to accept him as a defensive 3rd line center and not expect offense. Having Jordan Staal on the 3rd line for 6 years seriously spoiled us.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Meh.

Jordan Staal

Or

Letang (who would have been gone if we signed Staal)
Sutter
Dumoulin
Pouliot

Pretty easy call. No one expected Sutter to be Staal. Yes, you can complain of some of his deficiencies, but it turned out to be a better move than if Staal had signed here.

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

Meh.

Jodan Staal

Or

Letang (who would have been gone if we signed Staal)
Sutter
Dumoulin
Pouliot

Pretty easy call. No one expected Sutter to be Staal. Yes, you can complain of some of his deficiencies, but it turned out to be a better move than if Staal had signed here.

And to be honest Staal was not worth the money he was offered. As much as I liked Staal we are a better team with the trade

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

Meh.

Jodan Staal

Or

Letang (who would have been gone if we signed Staal)
Sutter
Dumoulin
Pouliot

Pretty easy call. No one expected Sutter to be Staal. Yes, you can complain of some of his deficiencies, but it turned out to be a better move than if Staal had signed here.

No he wouldn't. Why do people keep saying this?

If Shero signed Staal to that 6M deal, Dupuis wouldn't have been signed this summer and Orpik would be let walk next summer when Tanger's extension kicks in.

The trade really hinges on how DP turns out and how much Sutter gets in his next contract, IMO. Sutter is clearly a downgrade from Staal so I hope he doesn't get much of a raise from his current contract (if any). If DP doesn't turn out and Sutter gets 3M+ it's not gonna turn out as a good trade.

Had he taken Truba or FF, it would have made the trade much better.

 

[Burgs]

Sutter won't replace Staal's enormous size and reach just as he won't match his 6 million a year cap hit. But Sutter really needs to add some 20 pounds of muscle so he doesn't get pushed around so much in puck battles. He looks like a soccer player. If 6'1" Bennett managed to add 30 pounds in the three years since his draft, then 6'3" Sutter should be able to hit 200 lbs in the near future. Maybe a trip to Scary Gary's dungeon is in order next summer.

 

[mpp9]

Sutter won't replace Staal's enormous size and reach just as he won't match his 6 million a year cap hit. But Sutter really needs to add some 20 pounds of muscle so he doesn't get pushed around so much in puck battles. He looks like a soccer player. If 6'1" Bennett managed to add 30 pounds in the three years since his draft, then 6'3" Sutter should be able to hit 200 lbs in the near future. Maybe a trip to Scary Gary's dungeon is in order next summer.

In his interview last January, he basically said he can't add any bulk no matter what he does. Not sure what to think about that. He's either not really committed in the offseason, or he's going to be a twig forever.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

No he wouldn't. Why do people keep saying this?

If Shero signed Staal to that 6M deal, Dupuis wouldn't have been signed this summer and Orpik would be let walk next summer when Tanger's extension kicks in.

The trade really hinges on how DP turns out and how much Sutter gets in his next contract, IMO. Sutter is clearly a downgrade from Staal so I hope he doesn't get much of a raise from his current contract (if any). If DP doesn't turn out and Sutter gets 3M+ it's not gonna turn out as a good trade.

Had he taken Truba or FF, it would have made the trade much better.

Ok, fair enough. Then we would not have Orpik and Dupuis.

Either way we would have had issues if we had committed more to Staal than his worth to us for the role that he played.

 

[alcanalz]

Ok, fair enough. Then we would not have Orpik and Dupuis.

Either way we would have had issues if we had committed more to Staal than his worth to us for the role that he played.

Yeah. I don't know how anyone can knock that trade.

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

Ok, fair enough. Then we would not have Orpik and Dupuis.

Either way we would have had issues if we had committed more to Staal than his worth to us for the role that he played.

Yeah there's no doubt Shero did what he could considering the situation. It's just Sutter is a big downgrade from Staal. I was hoping Sutter would progress to the point where it was more of a wash, but you can't have it all i guess.

 

[jack mullet]

Fleury gets shutout in first game, i told you so

 

[Darth Vitale]

You need to work on making your voice more raspy. Really get in there and yard-rake it!

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

Ok, fair enough. Then we would not have Orpik and Dupuis.

Either way we would have had issues if we had committed more to Staal than his worth to us for the role that he played.

Dupuis gets replaced by BB this year and Oprik gets replaced by Bort next. Plus Glass doesn't get 1.1M so that's another 600K in savings. Not really losing much.

We would have had issues but not huge ones and I think we've yet to see Staal's worth to this team, IMO. Is Sutter isn't good in the POs this year, we'll be missing Staal.

I'm not trying to say it was a bad trade, because I know Staal forced Shero's hand. I'm just saying that it may not be the huge win we thought it was when it went down.

 

[JTG]

In his interview last January, he basically said he can't add any bulk no matter what he does. Not sure what to think about that. He's either not really committed in the offseason, or he's going to be a twig forever.

Colby Armstong was eating like 10,000 calories a day and couldn't put weight on. That's how some guys are wired.

 

[JTG]

You need to work on making your voice more raspy. Really get in there and yard-rake it!

No idea why that made me laugh so hard.

 

[mpp9]

Colby Armstong was eating like 10,000 calories a day and couldn't put weight on. That's how some guys are wired.

I'd be fine if Sutter could get even close to his weight. 190-195 would be perfect for him.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

The weirdest part about Sutter is he's so ... un-Sutter-like. The one thing all the Sutter brothers had in common was their snarl/intensity. Some were more talented than others, but all had that chippy streak to them. Brandon shows very little intensity out there.

Also, watching Trouba play, that Pouliot pick is going to really bother me for a long time. Because that's the weird part. I wanted a forward, but even if the Pens stuck with their BDA (best defenseman available) strategy, how they went with Pouliot over Trouba is a mystery to me.

 

[66-30-33]

The weirdest part about Sutter is he's so ... un-Sutter-like. The one thing all the Sutter brothers had in common was their snarl/intensity. Some were more talented than others, but all had that chippy streak to them. Brandon shows very little intensity out there.

Also, watching Trouba play, that Pouliot pick is going to really bother me for a long time. Because that's the weird part. I wanted a forward, but even if the Pens stuck with their BDA (best defenseman available) strategy, how they went with Pouliot over Trouba is a mystery to me.

Imagine Trouba AND Maatta? Anyway, don't write off DP just yet, for all we know he could be better then Trouba.

 

[JTG]

The weirdest part about Sutter is he's so ... un-Sutter-like. The one thing all the Sutter brothers had in common was their snarl/intensity. Some were more talented than others, but all had that chippy streak to them. Brandon shows very little intensity out there.

Also, watching Trouba play, that Pouliot pick is going to really bother me for a long time. Because that's the weird part. I wanted a forward, but even if the Pens stuck with their BDA (best defenseman available) strategy, how they went with Pouliot over Trouba is a mystery to me.

I really think the organization was going for the highest offensive upside with that pick. They wanted a future PPQB.

I did like Trouba then, and I still like Trouba now. Can't really pass judgement though until DP gets here.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

Also, watching Trouba play, that Pouliot pick is going to really bother me for a long time. Because that's the weird part. I wanted a forward, but even if the Pens stuck with their BDA (best defenseman available) strategy, how they went with Pouliot over Trouba is a mystery to me.

This is where I'm at. I wanted FF but if they had gone BDA and taken Truba I'd be pretty happy right now. DP was neither BPA nor BDA.

I honestly think that Shero got attached to him playing w/ Morrow and put him on a pedestal. When Shero falls for a player he doesn't always make the best decisions (Adams, Eaton, Dupuis, ect).

I did like Trouba then, and I still like Trouba now. Can't really pass judgement though until DP gets here.

Why not?

Truba and FF (and about 5 other guys picked after DP) are playing in the NHL this year, that's a huge plus in their favor. Both players would have helped the Pens this year, especially with the low cap.