Please sell this team, Melnyk / Budget talk II

[The Fuhr*]

With that being said I'll be perfectly fine with the team making no financial additions this summer if the team re- signs Spezza, Ryan, MacArthur, Methot, Anderson to extensions

If the team keeps it's talent while allowing the youth to develop that's a strategy I can get sold on.

One way or another we will see if ownership is committed to win

 

[Do Make Say Think]

The issue and i am not sying this about Bonk is while he might be a good guy and mean well but letters like that when there based more on rumors then fact is does not look good.

It addresses a problem a non-negligeable portion of the fanbase sees

I know you're of the opinion that everything is fine but that is based on even less than rumours, it's based on your willingness to dismiss them for no reason

A lot of us are getting the impression the budget is getting in the way of the team improving, wether you agree or not is irrelevant, it's there and Melnyk should try to alleviate those feelings

 

[sam2020]

It addresses a problem a non-negligeable portion of the fanbase sees

I know you're of the opinion that everything is fine but that is based on even less than rumours, it's based on your willingness to dismiss them for no reason

A lot of us are getting the impression the budget is getting in the way of the team improving, wether you agree or not is irrelevant, it's there and Melnyk should try to alleviate those feelings

If people want to take issue with the budget ok fine but when people take rumors as fact that is what i have a issue with.

 

[Micklebot]

1. Spezza = Number 1 Center
2. MacArthur-Turris-Ryan = Great 2nd line
3. Karlsson = Norris winning D
4. Anderson + Lehner = Solid goaltending
5. Promising young pieces like Ceci, Zibanejad, Stone, Pumpel, Pageu, Hoffman pushing for ice time
6. Greening-Smith-Neil = Good 4th line

Would it not make sense to get Spezza a couple wingers, improve the D and go for it.

What position is this team waiting for development in?

To answer your question,
1. Karlsson needs to refine the definsive side of his game.
2. Turris could stand to get a little more consistant (nitpicking here)
3. All those promising young pieces are of little use on a contender. Top emd teams will ice 1 or 2 unless you get into the higher end prospects which we don't have any of.
4. GSN was attrocious this year, maybe in a reduced roll, or if Greening can bounce back they can be useful. Neil is slowing down.

We could add to the team now and be a little better, but we'd still be a long shot to make it to the conference finals little lone the cup.

I'll admit, I'd rather be watching us in the playoffs with a good chance at the 2nd round, it would probably be more fun right now. But at the same time, I think our assets are better used 2-3 years from now when we see how everyone has developed.

With that being said I'll be perfectly fine with the team making no financial additions this summer if the team re- signs Spezza, Ryan, MacArthur, Methot, Anderson to extensions

If the team keeps it's talent while allowing the youth to develop that's a strategy I can get sold on.

One way or another we will see if ownership is committed to win

Ok, agreed here. I'm also ok with us parting with Spezza if the return makes sense. My gut feeling is that should we move Spezza, I won't be happy with the return, but you never know.

My ideal return would be a #2-3 dman, a young potential top 6 winger and a mid-late 1st round pick.
It's probably unrealistic, but I want a return of similar value to what we received for Yashin.

Both guys had question marks, both had very strong recent year (though Spezza had a bad first half this year, and an injury one before, 2012 he was 6th in hart voting) They are about the same age.

That year, the 2nd overall was about as sure a thing as any 1st overall, so assuming we get somehting in the range of a 20-25th in a weak draft, a package of a 2-3 D, a potential top 6 and a pick seems similar imo. So well probably be offered something between that and the top 6 forward, a salary dump and a 2nd round pick we received for Heatley.

 

[TeamRenzo]

We missed the playoffs by 3 wins. Adding Alfredsson and Gonchar would of made the difference.

Alfie would of helped Spezza out a ton early on and is another 40-60 points. Gonchar's minutes would bump everyone down one spot on a dcorp of players playing above their heads. Those two would of been huge.

But instead Melnyk cheaped out and got what he payed for.

If we kept Alfie and Gonchar we wouldnt have signed MacArthur and probably wouldnt have Ryan. That is 2/3's of our best line in the past season...

 

[YouGotAStuGoing]

If people want to take issue with the budget ok fine but when people take rumors as fact that is what i have a issue with.

It's important to take rumours with a grain of salt, but you can't just turn a blind eye to them if they're not convenient to your side. Where there's smoke, there's usually fire, and this one has been smoking long enough and powerfully enough to be approaching wildfire.

 

[sam2020]

It's important to take rumours with a grain of salt, but you can't just turn a blind eye to them if they're not convenient to your side. Where there's smoke, there's usually fire, and this one has been smoking long enough and powerfully enough to be approaching wildfire.

There is a major difference between turning a blind eye to them which i agree people should not and taking a rumor as fact even with many cases there is nothing behind them.

 

[jbeck5]

I know people love to say he is a cheap owner in fact he is a smart owner you don't spend when your core is still very young you wait.

When Pittsburgh and Chicago added to their core, guys like letang,corsby,Malkin,toews,Keith, Kane, etc were all young. The exact opposite of what you are saying.

 

[John Holmes*]

Did Bonktastic leave or is he just taking a summer break?

There is only so much budget hysteria a person can take. I wouldn't blame him if he checked out until the draft.

Its actually a pretty good idea.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Did Bonktastic leave or is he just taking a summer break?

There is only so much budget hysteria a person can take. I wouldn't blame him if he checked out until the draft.

Its actually a pretty good idea.

There was a big debate about Melnyk sending helmets to people in the Ukraine while Russia was taking over

People were actually hating on eachother over it and I made a passing comment about how stupid it was to get into a heated argument over something like that

Bonk took it the wrong way (it was a short post that wasn't a full exposition on my thoughts about the debate), flipped right the **** out, went on a rant and I haven't seen him post since then

I'm sure he'll be back if the team does well next year, this place is too much fun when things are going well

 

[YouGotAStuGoing]

Did Bonktastic leave or is he just taking a summer break?

There is only so much budget hysteria a person can take. I wouldn't blame him if he checked out until the draft.

Its actually a pretty good idea.

According to the man, the myth, the legend himself:

I'm still occasionally checking in and skimming the boards to see if this community can go back to having calm & rational discussions about topics, instead of the echo chamber of insane bridge-jumping pessimism and daily personal attacks that this season turned into.

 

[sam2020]

When Pittsburgh and Chicago added to their core, guys like letang,corsby,Malkin,toews,Keith, Kane, etc were all young. The exact opposite of what you are saying.

No that is what i am saying Pitt and Chicago did not add untill they were ready.

 

[Benjamin]

If we kept Alfie and Gonchar we wouldnt have signed MacArthur and probably wouldnt have Ryan. That is 2/3's of our best line in the past season...

I was saying re-signing Alfie and Gonchar on top of getting MacArthur and Ryan.


Obviously glad we didn't sign Gonchar. Didn't want him last summer and still glad we didn't. Although I thought he would be better than what he was this season.

 

[jbeck5]

No that is what i am saying Pitt and Chicago did not add untill they were ready.

They added when their core was very young. You said they did not add when their core was young but instead waited.

All their core players were very young. They did not wait until they were in their mid to late twenties. They did it when they were in their early 20s. The exact opposite of what you're saying.

 

[BonkTastic]

I made a passing comment about how stupid it was to get into a heated argument over something like that

Bonk took it the wrong way (it was a short post that wasn't a full exposition on my thoughts about the debate), flipped right the **** out, went on a rant and I haven't seen him post since then

Nah, that wasn't the reason I took a break. The Ukraine thread was a gongshow, but it was just a small piece of a larger problem that was manifesting itself all year on these boards. I thought stepping down as a mod would be enough, but I found that even after giving up the "privilege" of dealing with the worst of the worst, I was pretty mentally checked out of here. Don't feel as though you did anything major, me bailing wasn't your doing.

Like I said in the New Mod Welcome thread, I'm still occasionally checking in to see if this place has calmed down, and I'll check back in around Draft time to see if we're going to have a repeat of last season, or if we can have some sense of a positive community around here again.

BonkTastic

I really hope you did not send that letter to Melynk.

While I'm here, I guess I should clear this up...

No, the entire idea of the "open letter" was twofold:

1) as a form of written therapy about my frustrations with the contradictions coming out of the organization at the time, but more importantly,
2) to open up a line of discussion on these boards, not necessarily about Eugene's finances specifically (because he'll never open the books and we'll probably never have a complete answer to that question), but more about:
- the concept of using the internal cap/ the budget as a public talking point for the team and it's personnel decisions, either as an honest representation of the team's finances or as a fabrication used as a vehicle for some other ploy (casino, season ticket drive, etc...),
- the contradictions that have come from the management/ ownership group about the team' financial viability, and
- the consequences of "playing the budget card" in public with a fanbase in a city that legitimately already almost lost it's team once over budget issues, and whose patience to listen to that line of reasoning might be on thin ice.

I suppose in hindsight, the thread title ("sell the team") was a bad idea, because it had the opposite effect of what I had hoped: instead of generate discussion about the content of the post, it led to a bunch of posts who were reacting to the title and not the content. I knew that it was a much longer post than is normal on these boards, and I had hoped that a sensationalized title/ suggestion would draw people to read the whole thing and discuss some of the points within it, instead of skimming through it. My bad on that one.

 

[coladin]

We missed the playoffs by 3 wins. Adding Alfredsson and Gonchar would of made the difference.


But instead Melnyk cheaped out and got what he payed for.

3 wins? You telling me that you couldn't find three games where you can say some blown calls cost us three games? How about the Montreal meltdown for starters? there's one. How about losing to Edm and Cgy?

You didn't need Alfie and Gonchar to get three wins. Over 82 games, and 40 losses, you can scrape some games early on where we gave up leads late, Colorado game, Chicago in Chicago, etc..., that would make up those points.

Or we could do it your way with an extra $11M, what the hell, it ain't your money.

 

[OttawaSenators11]

I know people love to say he is a cheap owner in fact he is a smart owner you don't spend when your core is still very young you wait.

He's turned foolish actually.
Stop making excuses for him.

He didn't not spend because of this core , he didn't spend because he's cheap.

Any owner would have added to a playoff team after making it past the 1st round with already one of the lowest payrolls and because he didn't we took a step back. That's fact.

 

[OttawaSenators11]

People that want Melynk to sell just keep in mind things could be far far worse with a new owner.

Or they could be far far better, who knows for sure.

 

[melnyk budget*]

as much as i hate this budget situation (clearly my name reflects that) it is insanity to discuss the same things over and over and over again without new info coming out. unfortunately we are in the 'lets wait and see what happens' situation.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Nah, that wasn't the reason I took a break. The Ukraine thread was a gongshow, but it was just a small piece of a larger problem that was manifesting itself all year on these boards. I thought stepping down as a mod would be enough, but I found that even after giving up the "privilege" of dealing with the worst of the worst, I was pretty mentally checked out of here. Don't feel as though you did anything major, me bailing wasn't your doing.

Like I said in the New Mod Welcome thread, I'm still occasionally checking in to see if this place has calmed down, and I'll check back in around Draft time to see if we're going to have a repeat of last season, or if we can have some sense of a positive community around here again.

Alright, it's just that the last post of yours I saw was in response to mine and it was a pretty epic rant

Glad to see you still care about us

 

[Benjamin]

3 wins? You telling me that you couldn't find three games where you can say some blown calls cost us three games? How about the Montreal meltdown for starters? there's one. How about losing to Edm and Cgy?

You didn't need Alfie and Gonchar to get three wins. Over 82 games, and 40 losses, you can scrape some games early on where we gave up leads late, Colorado game, Chicago in Chicago, etc..., that would make up those points.

Or we could do it your way with an extra $11M, what the hell, it ain't your money.

Perhaps Alfie makes the difference in those games?

 

[Kickabrat]

It's important to take rumours with a grain of salt, but you can't just turn a blind eye to them if they're not convenient to your side. Where there's smoke, there's usually fire, and this one has been smoking long enough and powerfully enough to be approaching wildfire.

And yet there are still people around here who wonder why Eklund does so well with his site!

 

[PoutineSp00nZ]

He's turned foolish actually.
Stop making excuses for him.

He didn't not spend because of this core , he didn't spend because he's cheap.

Any owner would have added to a playoff team after making it past the 1st round with already one of the lowest payrolls and because he didn't we took a step back. That's fact.

You are pulling all of this out of your ass, you have no way to know any of it. Then you call it fact, as if that somehow gives any of this supposition merit.

Why do people feel a need to declare something to be true or false without enough information? I'll never understand it.

Heres a fact for you, the only time the Senators ever spent money at the same levels as the New Yorks or Toronto's of the world it was Melnyk's bread. The only time. It's a small market team, it's unrealistic to expect the Senators to be a perpetual cap team with the damn number going up every year.

He might spend to it again, he might not. Who the **** knows? We can guess, but that's all we can do.

 

[Quo]

Perhaps Alfie makes the difference in those games?

A lot of things could have made the difference in those games.

You could say that Alfie would have been one of them but there are other elements that existed in house at the time.

Had we had any semblance of consistency throughout the year we'd be fine.

 

[Smash88]

He's turned foolish actually.
Stop making excuses for him.

He didn't not spend because of this core , he didn't spend because he's cheap.

Any owner would have added to a playoff team after making it past the 1st round with already one of the lowest payrolls and because he didn't we took a step back. That's fact.

Those are your opinions, not fact at all.