Please, Chia, please gut this core.

[Up the Irons]

Not at all man. I just really think we need to exhaust our other trade chips wayyyy before we look at trading RNH. Or at least until we know for sure (in another year or two) that McD and (more so) Drai are ready to carry the luggage down the middle. Has gone pretty under the radar that Nuge still faces the best competition and its not close.

well, I can certainly agree with that.

 

[Suxnet]

Plays with a bum shoulder for a year but now he is soft? Ever had a wrecked shoulder? One of the most painful injuries there are. One of the few skill guys we have that will hit.

Weak on faceoffs? He's improved every year. He was 51% before getting sick. He went ~25% over next five games. Does he suck our is there an underlying issue? His last four games against some really good faceoff opponents 55.6, 54.6, 53.8, 55.6.

Has been inconsistent? He's 22! He's been taking on #1 centers in the west since he was a teenager with a poor supporting cast and in particular a defense that can't make a breakout pass.

He still generates offense. Before getting sick he was 12pts in 9 games. He's had a revolving door of teammates this season. He'll get back to his dominant form and closer to a ppg.

What does having an injury have to do with how he plays? He gets out-muscled along the boards all the time.

You're just throwing out excuses now. How many of those points came with the red-hot Hall and Drai?

RNH simply stays afloat in games. He's not a liability, but he's also never really exceptional. Offensively, you're always wanting to see more, especially considering the minutes he gets. Defensively, he does his part, with the occasional good and bad plays. He's a passable #2C ideally, but we need more of which he does not provide. He's just not a great fit for this team at this time imo.

 

[kurt]

So funny. One of the more damning descriptions (not the only one) of the Spezza trade (The Hockey News) is "...traded for pennies on the dollar." Would take Nuge with one leg over any of the other guys.

Spezza had a limited NTC and requested a trade, so definitely not apples to apples. More of a Kesler comparable than a RNH comparable, although even that isn't apples to apples as Spezza was pending UFA I think. Not sure how much more Spezza could have possibly fetched.

Of course you'd take Nuge over the other guys, given his age, promise, development to date, etc. I'm not saying he's worse than the other guys. I'm saying 1/2 centers can certainly be traded, and certainly fetch fair returns. It's not impossible.

 

[McDeathbyCheerios*]

well, I can certainly agree with that.

I do to but I think if we move RNH before the others people will think we ran him out of town etc.

If RNH is moves first that means our other trade chips were not getting it done.

Just cause guy A was moved, doesn't mean they didn't try hard to move E-Y first

 

[dustrock]

If the untouchables are McDavid, Drai, Hall and Nurse, I think you can add "and RNH, barring a Chris Pronger becoming available".

Trade everyone before these 5 guys. Eberle, Yakupov, Schultz, Pouliot, even Klefbom.

 

[SoftDumps]

1. Well, it is crystal clear that you're adamantly opposed to trading RNH under any circumstance. All I'm advocating is looking for a deal where RNH can be moved for comparable value in other areas. You're not just pumping the brakes on such an idea, but you're extremely critical of it.

2. With my Penguins analogy, I wasn't suggesting they dump Malkin because they had Staal. I was suggesting Staal was movable. They didn't need to do so right away, as they had other pieces, and a proper hockey team, but eventually with cap constraints, etc, that's exactly what they did.

3. I don't think RNH should be traded for cents on the dollar. And yes, center depth is certainly important, but I think defensive depth and at least reliable goaltending is just as important as center depth. And I don't think the Oilers currently have either of those things.

4.As I mentioned before, you have to give to get. I don't think someone like Yakupov is going to be close to enough to rebuild the blueline in Edmonton. He's also exactly the guy you'll get a cents on the dollar return with, as his value is in the toilet. Justin Schultz too. These guys are on the verge of being the next Gagner and Dubnyk. Eberle might have value. But is his value equal to RNH's value? No. Will he fetch as much of a return? I certainly don't expect so.

1. Nope. I am critical of trading him in the short term because we simply do not have the depth to accommodate. He is still responsible for the lion's share of the unheralded work down the middle, which is easily seen in any of the opponent quality metrics for our forwards. I would prefer not to see our "new" core buried much like RNH was early on.

2. They had other pieces and a proper hockey team. Precisely why I don't believe the Oilers are a good comparable. Eventually, yes, I see RNH being moved. I don't mind Drai on the wing for now, he is a fantastic insurance policy down the middle and perhaps we can package some picks (which IMO do have value around the league) with some proven scoring to a team that needs it in order to shore up our defense, which is absolutely in need of major help down the right side especially.

3. Jury is still out on our goaltending situation for the nonce (my opinion again); everyone can agree we need D help. The major point of contention is what we should give to obtain this help.

4. I can (and have previously) agreed with all of this. Trading Yak is poor asset management at this point. I do however think we can accommodate replacing Eberle internally; coupled with some picks I do think we can make a damn fine start with our right side D by moving Ebs.

In the near-term, trading Nuge absolutely must yield a legitimate #1 minute muncher for the back right side. But the chances of this are essentially nil. So, we target a guy who is close to being that guy that we can presumably get for a little less than Nuge/Nuge+. Down the road a season or two, maybe we find a legit 3C and Nuge can go for a quantity-type deal to really solidify the make up of the team. I hope this clears up my thought process and you can at least understand why I am very wary of trading Nuge before we exhaust our other options. Sorry for my frustration earlier, more to do with some less informed posters than yourself with less than ideal (to put it very mildly) ideas on Nuge's value to this team and around the league.

 

[Billy Barou]

What does having an injury have to do with how he plays? He gets out-muscled along the boards all the time.

You're just throwing out excuses now. How many of those points came with the red-hot Hall and Drai?

RNH simply stays afloat in games. He's not a liability, but he's also never really exceptional. Offensively, you're always wanting to see more, especially considering the minutes he gets. Defensively, he does his part, with the occasional good and bad plays. He's a passable #2C ideally, but we need more of which he does not provide. He's just not a great fit for this team at this time imo.

The injury he played through was my point that he isn't soft.

I would argue he wins significantly more board battles than he loses but I dont have the numbers to back it up.

Yes I am using sickness and injury as an excuse. You need to look at the body of work.

I think a reliable two way center that is a whiz on the power play and can PK is a good fit on any team. His fo% is improving yearly and will be an asset soon, if not, this year.

I think I understand your point to be that you don't like the overall team composition - too soft, easy to play against.

I agree but don't think RNH is the piece that needs to change. I believe good teams are built from the middle and you can never have too much center depth.

 

[kurt]

1. Nope. I am critical of trading him in the short term because we simply do not have the depth to accommodate. He is still responsible for the lion's share of the unheralded work down the middle, which is easily seen in any of the opponent quality metrics for our forwards. I would prefer not to see our "new" core buried much like RNH was early on.

2. They had other pieces and a proper hockey team. Precisely why I don't believe the Oilers are a good comparable. Eventually, yes, I see RNH being moved. I don't mind Drai on the wing for now, he is a fantastic insurance policy down the middle and perhaps we can package some picks (which IMO do have value around the league) with some proven scoring to a team that needs it in order to shore up our defense, which is absolutely in need of major help down the right side especially.

3. Jury is still out on our goaltending situation for the nonce (my opinion again); everyone can agree we need D help. The major point of contention is what we should give to obtain this help.

4. I can (and have previously) agreed with all of this. Trading Yak is poor asset management at this point. I do however think we can accommodate replacing Eberle internally; coupled with some picks I do think we can make a damn fine start with our right side D by moving Ebs.

In the near-term, trading Nuge absolutely must yield a legitimate #1 minute muncher for the back right side. But the chances of this are essentially nil. So, we target a guy who is close to being that guy that we can presumably get for a little less than Nuge/Nuge+. Down the road a season or two, maybe we find a legit 3C and Nuge can go for a quantity-type deal to really solidify the make up of the team. I hope this clears up my thought process and you can at least understand why I am very wary of trading Nuge before we exhaust our other options. Sorry for my frustration earlier, more to do with some less informed posters than yourself with less than ideal (to put it very mildly) ideas on Nuge's value to this team and around the league.

Ah cool, there is reason behind all this. I didn't have your context I guess. I think waiting is also valid, especially with this year already being as far gone as it is, but I would be cautious about waiting too long. It would be a shame for the team to continue to flounder for another season and have RNH's value plummet to the territory Kyle Turris was in at the time of his trade.

 

[oilwave]

If the untouchables are McDavid, Drai, Hall and Nurse, I think you can add "and RNH, barring a Chris Pronger becoming available".

Trade everyone before these 5 guys. Eberle, Yakupov, Schultz, Pouliot, even Klefbom.

This.

 

[SoftDumps]

Ah cool, there is reason behind all this. I didn't have your context I guess. I think waiting is also valid, especially with this year already being as far gone as it is, but I would be cautious about waiting too long. It would be a shame for the team to continue to flounder for another season and have RNH's value plummet to the territory Kyle Turris was in at the time of his trade.

That is a risk for sure; thankfully, I think Nuge has earned some positive value with execs around the league to this point which is something that Turris hadn't (if my memory serves correctly) at that time.

 

[Soundwave]

You wait for a RNH for Seth Jones deal or you don't do one period.

Unless Nashville goes deep in the playoffs, they likely will finally have to address their own glaring center needs. So that makes them a natural partner for us.

And the time to do that is in the summer.

There's no point to making a trade now.

McDavid will be back in a few weeks and that will lighten the mood and the arena will be sold out every night so there's pressing business need here.

There's no trade that we could do now that would catapult us into the playoffs this year. So that's out.

Might as well just ride it out and let RNH shelter McDavid and Draisaitl for a full year, that will make them better for next season, then in the summer you make a move.

I'd basically just run this the rest of the year from January onwards

Hall Draisaitl Purcell
Anyone RNH Eberle
Pouliot McDavid Yakupov

And divvy up the minutes between those three lines relatively evenly. Which ever one is going best you up their ice totals.