Please, Chia, please gut this core.

[ChaoticOrange]

he got that as 1c, with 1c ice time and 1st PP unit. He wont get near 60 as 2c. this is what you guys are missing. On almost every team in the league he wouldnt be the 1c, but he got to be that on this team.

On almost every other team in the league, he wouldn't have to face the best of the best night in and night out. You're trying to have your cake and eat it too.

 

[Stud Muffin]

#FireSpector

 

[ChaoticOrange]

I still laugh a little bit at how much importance this board places on faceoffs.

Here's a short list of 'gritty' centers that this board would shoot their mother to have and their faceoff suck this year.

Cody Eakin, 47.3%
Nate MacKinnnon: 47.1%
Sean Couturier: 46.8%
Adam Henrique: 46.6%
Dylan Larkin, 45.5%
Boone Jenner, 45.1%
Artem Anisimov, 44.5%
Sam Bennett, 44.6%
Evgeni Malkin, 43.9%
Derek Stepan, 42.7%

 

[Suxnet]

Came to post a link to the same article, should be reposted often to reiterate the colossal mistake that would be trading RNH...and he's only 22!

The stat-watchers love Nuge. But when you watch him play, he's just not good enough to justify those kind of minutes on this team. Maybe behind a Kopitar/Toews/Getzlaf he'd do better but on the Oilers, the flaws in his game are far too apparent.

Soft, poor in faceoffs, generally good defensively, but too inconsistent to be considered great, and doesn't generate enough offense to negate his weaknesses. He's a decent #2C.

 

[PaPaDee]

I still laugh a little bit at how much importance this board places on faceoffs.

Here's a short list of 'gritty' centers that this board would shoot their mother to have and their faceoff suck this year.

Cody Eakin, 47.3%
Nate MacKinnnon: 47.1%
Sean Couturier: 46.8%
Adam Henrique: 46.6%
Dylan Larkin, 45.5%
Boone Jenner, 45.1%
Artem Anisimov, 44.5%
Sam Bennett, 44.6%
Evgeni Malkin, 43.9%
Derek Stepan, 42.7%

Several of those players I won't classify as "gritty".

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Several of those players I won't classify as "gritty".

I don't think Mark Spector would call them 'soft skill'

 

[Frank the Tank]

The stat-watchers love Nuge. But when you watch him play, he's just not good enough to justify those kind of minutes on this team. Maybe behind a Kopitar/Toews/Getzlaf he'd do better but on the Oilers, the flaws in his game are far too apparent.

Soft, poor in faceoffs, generally good defensively, but too inconsistent to be considered great, and doesn't generate enough offense to negate his weaknesses. He's a decent #2C.

If only we had a prospect (or two) that project into #1C.

He will be playing behind a Kopitar/Toews/Getzlaf, when McDavid and/or Draisaitl develops.

 

[Suxnet]

I still laugh a little bit at how much importance this board places on faceoffs.

Here's a short list of 'gritty' centers that this board would shoot their mother to have and their faceoff suck this year.

Cody Eakin, 47.3%
Nate MacKinnnon: 47.1%
Sean Couturier: 46.8%
Adam Henrique: 46.6%
Dylan Larkin, 45.5%
Boone Jenner, 45.1%
Artem Anisimov, 44.5%
Sam Bennett, 44.6%
Evgeni Malkin, 43.9%
Derek Stepan, 42.7%

Mac is a beast and is ppg.
Malkin has scored 100 points.
Larkin is a rookie.
Bennett is still young.

I'd probably take RNH over the rest of them though.

 

[Billy Barou]

Saying unequivocally that you won't get full value is also fantasy. It's all fantasy.

Name a #1C that was traded for full value.

 

[SoftDumps]

So, you're saying to trade Eberle? Yakupov? The 2016 first round pick? What makes you so sure you'll get what you deem to be "fair value" for one of those assets, but not for RNH? Seems awfully presumptuous, with really no basis for such a statement.

As for the combined age <40 comment, the Penguins managed 47 wins with Crosby/Malkin having a combined age under 40, while playing in a stronger division than the Oilers currently find themselves in. Sure they also had Staal, but was Staal an untradeable asset? No. Should he have been? No. Are the Penguins able to win games without Jared Staal? Yes.

Is all this overzealous nonsense re: RNH related to the Bruins/Stars Seguin trade, or something? I understand the Oilers did hire the GM that made that deal, but just because that deal was lopsided, doesn't mean a deal has to be lopsided (also RNH value isn't close to Seguin value).

Regarding the other garbage in your post - how many ignore lists are you on?

Pretty weird leaps in logic (again) here but I will try.

Yes I am saying trade other assets. This is not hard stuff. The reason you trade them, and not RNH, isn't entirely contingent on fair value like you tried to set it up to suit your narrative. It's because they are more replaceable pieces coupled with the fact that I place a high value on center depth as it has a proven track record of winning in this league. This is so simple I cannot believe I am forced to explain.

As for trading #1 centers and hardly, if ever, getting fair value: this isn't a baseless statement, it is observable over many years and trades in the NHL.

Your Penguins comparison is misguided also for several reasons. How many top-flight, high pedigree centers did you list there? Did Pittsburgh feel the need to immediately trade Malkin when they obtained Staal (we only need 2 centers!). This doesn't begin to address other discrepancies in the comparison but hopefully you get the point.

Re: "overzealous nonsense" "ignore lists" - if I am of strong opinion and choose not to display my irritation in an underhanded, passive aggressive way such as the aforementioned, sorry. Not really a person that likes to play the politician.

Bolded: No, and not sure what on earth led you to draw this conclusion. Doesn't make sense.

Still tough to figure out why it is you took such umbrage with my position, especially considering it is more "wait on the trade RNH right meow" and less "don't ever trade precious, untouchable RNH."

 

[Billy Barou]

Soft, poor in faceoffs, generally good defensively, but too inconsistent to be considered great, and doesn't generate enough offense to negate his weaknesses. He's a decent #2C.

Plays with a bum shoulder for a year but now he is soft? Ever had a wrecked shoulder? One of the most painful injuries there are. One of the few skill guys we have that will hit.

Weak on faceoffs? He's improved every year. He was 51% before getting sick. He went ~25% over next five games. Does he suck our is there an underlying issue? His last four games against some really good faceoff opponents 55.6, 54.6, 53.8, 55.6.

Has been inconsistent? He's 22! He's been taking on #1 centers in the west since he was a teenager with a poor supporting cast and in particular a defense that can't make a breakout pass.

He still generates offense. Before getting sick he was 12pts in 9 games. He's had a revolving door of teammates this season. He'll get back to his dominant form and closer to a ppg.

 

[oilwave]

The stat-watchers love Nuge. But when you watch him play, he's just not good enough to justify those kind of minutes on this team. Maybe behind a Kopitar/Toews/Getzlaf he'd do better but on the Oilers, the flaws in his game are far too apparent.

Soft, poor in faceoffs, generally good defensively, but too inconsistent to be considered great, and doesn't generate enough offense to negate his weaknesses. He's a decent #2C.

The problem is there is no evidence of any of these weaknesses other than through "the visual test". If all the stats say our team is significantly better when he's on the ice, that we score more and give up less shots against (which they do), then obviously the "visual weaknesses" don't actually effect his impact on the game.

 

[Suxnet]

If only we had a prospect (or two) that project into #1C.

He will be playing behind a Kopitar/Toews/Getzlaf, when McDavid and/or Draisaitl develops.

It's becoming painfully obvious that the Oilers need a shakeup. The D needs work, obviously, but if these guys were scoring like madmen, it would be harder to stomach a trade, but they're not. This core has never been good at scoring. All these shiny names and potential don't mean much when they don't produce results. They've had enough chances.

 

[McDeathbyCheerios*]

I still laugh a little bit at how much importance this board places on faceoffs.

Here's a short list of 'gritty' centers that this board would shoot their mother to have and their faceoff suck this year.

Cody Eakin, 47.3%
Nate MacKinnnon: 47.1%
Sean Couturier: 46.8%
Adam Henrique: 46.6%
Dylan Larkin, 45.5%
Boone Jenner, 45.1%
Artem Anisimov, 44.5%
Sam Bennett, 44.6%
Evgeni Malkin, 43.9%
Derek Stepan, 42.7%

The only ones on that list I would want as a 3c here is Couturier. And that's a bad season for him faceoff wise.

 

[oilwave]

A mistake to trade him, period? Regardless of the return? Please.

Sure but that's true of any player on the team except McDavid (even he could be traded for the right return, but that return would be nuts). Admitting I'd trade RNH for a #1 dman (which I would) doesn't mean I want to trade him. Pretty much any trade I'd accept for RNH I'd also accept for Hall. I don't actually want to trade either of them though unless the offer is amazing.

 

[McDeathbyCheerios*]

So let's look at this. The team fully healthy. This is my best case scenario to help the players out.

Hall - Drai - Eberle
RNH - McDavid - Yakupov
Pouliot - Lander - Purcell
Hendricks - Letetsu - Klink
Korpi

Nurse - Sekera
Klefbom - Fayne
Davidson - Schultz
Gryba

Nilsson
Talbot

I moved RNH to left wing to keep Yak in the top 6 as Drai and Yak are both better suited right wingers if on wing. If not our top 9 becomes. Also McDavid and RNH can share center duty and as bad as RNH is on faceoffs, McDavid wasn't doing so hot either.

Hall - RNH - Drai
Pouliot - McDavid - Eberle
Purcell - Lander - Yak

 

[kurt]

Name a #1C that was traded for full value.

Is RNH a #1C?

Jason Spezza. Derick Brassard. Mike Ribeiro. Brandon Dubinsky. Artem Anisimov. Sam Gagner. Jordan Staal.

 

[Up the Irons]

On almost every other team in the league, he wouldn't have to face the best of the best night in and night out. You're trying to have your cake and eat it too.

well, that's true.

I guess it all comes down to if and when you trade RNH, why and what for. I think most that are saying RNH is tradeable are not saying 'We must trade him because he is junk'. We are saying "think core is junk and a new direction must be adopted'.

At the same time, we are nolonger willing to say 'we must NEVER trade RNH because you just don't players like that'. the bold is a phase I've read many times on this board from posters referring to Eberle, RNH and Hall. I think those days are over for the former two.

RNH and Ebs are not so valuable that they are untouchable. Is that so unthinkable?

 

[McVespa99]

Should a team this bad really have any untouchables?

Yes it should. Being a bad team does not mean all the players are bad. Lets use some common sense here. I would not trade MacJ, Hall, Nurse, Klefbom,Drai. Anyone else could be had for the right price. And the only reason I would consider trading RNH is I see MacJ and Drai as a good 1,2. I dont care what the Hall haters say. He is just too good to trade. Does he cough up the puck sometimes? Yes, because he always has the puck!

 

[Up the Irons]

So let's look at this. The team fully healthy. This is my best case scenario to help the players out.

Hall - Drai - Eberle
RNH - McDavid - Yakupov
Pouliot - Lander - Purcell
Hendricks - Letetsu - Klink
Korpi

Nurse - Sekera
Klefbom - Fayne
Davidson - Schultz
Gryba

Nilsson
Talbot

I moved RNH to left wing to keep Yak in the top 6 as Drai and Yak are both better suited right wingers if on wing. If not our top 9 becomes. Also McDavid and RNH can share center duty and as bad as RNH is on faceoffs, McDavid wasn't doing so hot either.

Hall - RNH - Drai
Pouliot - McDavid - Eberle
Purcell - Lander - Yak

too soft. too easy to play against. And this is the very jist of this entire argument. If I'm the manager, I'm exploring ways to make that top 9 nastier and heavier.

 

[SoftDumps]

Is RNH a #1C?

Jason Spezza. Derick Brassard. Mike Ribeiro. Brandon Dubinsky. Artem Anisimov. Sam Gagner. Jordan Staal.

So funny. One of the more damning descriptions (not the only one) of the Spezza trade (The Hockey News) is "...traded for pennies on the dollar." Would take Nuge with one leg over any of the other guys.

 

[Billy Barou]

Is RNH a #1C?

Jason Spezza. Derick Brassard. Mike Ribeiro. Brandon Dubinsky. Artem Anisimov. Sam Gagner. Jordan Staal.

You just made my point. RNH is 22 also.

 

[SoftDumps]

well, that's true.

I guess it all comes down to if and when you trade RNH, why and what for. I think most that are saying RNH is tradeable are not saying 'We must trade him because he is junk'. We are saying "think core is junk and a new direction must be adopted'.

At the same time, we are nolonger willing to say 'we must NEVER trade RNH because you just don't players like that'. the bold is a phase I've read many times on this board from posters referring to Eberle, RNH and Hall. I think those days are over for the former two.

RNH and Ebs are not so valuable that they are untouchable. Is that so unthinkable?

Not at all man. I just really think we need to exhaust our other trade chips wayyyy before we look at trading RNH. Or at least until we know for sure (in another year or two) that McD and (more so) Drai are ready to carry the luggage down the middle. Has gone pretty under the radar that Nuge still faces the best competition and its not close.

 

[McDeathbyCheerios*]

too soft. too easy to play against. And this is the very jist of this entire argument.

Exactly my point. You can have a guy with Drai and Hall though as they play hard and can cover. But you can really only have one maybe two in your top 9

 

[kurt]

Pretty weird leaps in logic (again) here but I will try.

Yes I am saying trade other assets. This is not hard stuff. The reason you trade them, and not RNH, isn't entirely contingent on fair value like you tried to set it up to suit your narrative. It's because they are more replaceable pieces coupled with the fact that I place a high value on center depth as it has a proven track record of winning in this league. This is so simple I cannot believe I am forced to explain.

As for trading #1 centers and hardly, if ever, getting fair value: this isn't a baseless statement, it is observable over many years and trades in the NHL.

Your Penguins comparison is misguided also for several reasons. How many top-flight, high pedigree centers did you list there? Did Pittsburgh feel the need to immediately trade Malkin when they obtained Staal (we only need 2 centers!). This doesn't begin to address other discrepancies in the comparison but hopefully you get the point.

Re: "overzealous nonsense" "ignore lists" - if I am of strong opinion and choose not to display my irritation in an underhanded, passive aggressive way such as the aforementioned, sorry. Not really a person that likes to play the politician.

Bolded: No, and not sure what on earth led you to draw this conclusion. Doesn't make sense.

Still tough to figure out why it is you took such umbrage with my position, especially considering it is more "wait on the trade RNH right meow" and less "don't ever trade precious, untouchable RNH."

Well, it is crystal clear that you're adamantly opposed to trading RNH under any circumstance. All I'm advocating is looking for a deal where RNH can be moved for comparable value in other areas. You're not just pumping the brakes on such an idea, but you're extremely critical of it.

With my Penguins analogy, I wasn't suggesting they dump Malkin because they had Staal. I was suggesting Staal was movable. They didn't need to do so right away, as they had other pieces, and a proper hockey team, but eventually with cap constraints, etc, that's exactly what they did.

I don't think RNH should be traded for cents on the dollar. And yes, center depth is certainly important, but I think defensive depth and at least reliable goaltending is just as important as center depth. And I don't think the Oilers currently have either of those things.

As I mentioned before, you have to give to get. I don't think someone like Yakupov is going to be close to enough to rebuild the blueline in Edmonton. He's also exactly the guy you'll get a cents on the dollar return with, as his value is in the toilet. Justin Schultz too. These guys are on the verge of being the next Gagner and Dubnyk. Eberle might have value. But is his value equal to RNH's value? No. Will he fetch as much of a return? I certainly don't expect so.