Players we could offer “prove it” contracts to

[Hatter of the Beach]

Are there any players on your radar that you think the Wings should target as stop gap/reclamation projects?

If we are lucky enough to end up with Lafrienerre or Stutz, I think a reliable second line center would be a very pressing need from a development standpoint, as we likely can’t put both our pick this year and Zadina on Larkin’s Wing, and at this point I think it’s clear that Filppula should not be the second line center from a development standpoint. Two players that I think could be had on affordable deals could be....

A) Alex Galchenyuk for 2 years, 7.75 - 8.5 million dollar deal

Or

B) Granlund for 3 years at 4.5-5 million per

both players can play center and offer an immediate upgrade to the 2nd line, while likely being able to be had for cheap(ish) and without huge term. This would allow us to roll out something like


Lafrienerre-Granlund-Mantha
Bertuzzi-Larkin-Zadina
Fabbri-Filppula-Rasmussen
Helm-Glendenning-Timashov
Smith

which in my mind looks a TON better than some iteration of this

Bertuzzi-Larkin-Mantha
Lafrienerre-Filppula-Zadina

and allows us for much more balanced scoring with two interchangeable top lines (relative to us), a much better looking third line, and sheltered minutes for Zadina and this year’s draft pick. They’re also nowhere near good enough to boost us up more than a few points, so we can keep tanking, only this time we can surround our future stars with at the very least middle 6 NHL talent instead of the corpse of Val Filppula.

Thoughts/alternate suggestions?

Click to read more...

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

I've been clamoring for a Granlund singing for the last yr., but after numerous threads on HF/Trade/NSH/RWings etc. the general consensus is, he isn't a C anymore, hasn't been for ~3 seasons? apparently. Otherwise, yes, as long is it's in the 2-3yr/$4-4.75 range, maybe as high as $4.9M if they plan on using/experimenting with him at C. His 1st assists were elite 1st line #'s, til he got to NSH.

Galchenyuk scares me, too slow for our team, lots of red flags.

 

[Winger98]

I'd take a flier on Galchenyuk for a couple of years. Really, how much could it actually hurt us? If he plays well, fantastic. He's either young enough to help build behind that group of Larkin/Mantha/Bert or be dealt for a nice pick/prospect. If he sucks, well, the team is more likely to pick high.

I don't know if this guy fits what you're looking for, but I'd also suggest Erik Haula. Every time I see fans of the teams he is on talk about him, it seems there is talk that the guy is never happy with his IT/role, believing he can handle something bigger. So, well, why not? Plug him into that second line behind Larkin, give him 17-20 minutes a night, and see if he can back it up. Obviously, he might be looking for a place he can win at this point, or a long term contract, but if the Wings can essentially promise those big minutes, and maybe over pay a bit on a short term deal, I bet that gets them at the table.

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

These Galchenyuk & Haula (both 3C's) are just plugs at best & more mediocrity. I'd almost entertain a solid sweetener + $1M retention from TBL to take on TJ @$4M/4yrs. Maybe they run out of options & don't wanna lose Serg/Cirelli. I doubt TJ/Gourde/Killorn/Palat waive, though out of that group Killorn would be the easiest to move (Mod. NTC after 19-20).

If they promote Foote, maybe we pry Cernak as the sweetener + only $500k retention?

 

[PullHard]

These Galchenyuk & Haula (both 3C's) are just plugs at best & more mediocrity. I'd almost entertain a solid sweetener + $1M retention from TBL to take on TJ @$4M/4yrs. Maybe they run out of options & don't wanna lose Serg/Cirelli. I doubt TJ/Gourde/Killorn/Palat waive, though out of that group Killorn would be the easiest to move (Mod. NTC after 19-20).

If they promote Foote, maybe we pry Cernak as the sweetener + only $500k retention?

This seems quite optimistic IMO, no offence because I hope it happens

If Yzerman can swing something like Johnson at full pop for a very modest return (Washington's 2nd round pick maybe?) I hope he doesn't hesitate

We could still sign Haula/ Galchenyuk/ Soderberg/ Brassard/ Granlund/ whoever, too

Ideally I'd do something like trade for Johnson and sign Soderberg for 1 year at a price he can't say no to, that way you can roll with something like

Larkin
Johnson
Soderberg
Glendening

down the middle and still have Helm, Filppula, Fabbri, Rasmussen, Ehn, etc. to slide into C roles if the lines need blending

Soderberg, Helm, Glendening, Filppula are all UFAs after next season too, so no real long term damage to the cap. Johnson can slide down to 3C or shift to RW when guys like Rasmussen, Veleno, etc. surpass him.

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

This seems quite optimistic IMO, no offence because I hope it happens

If Yzerman can swing something like Johnson at full pop for a very modest return (Washington's 2nd round pick maybe?) I hope he doesn't hesitate

We could still sign Haula/ Galchenyuk/ Soderberg/ Brassard/ Granlund/ whoever, too

Ideally I'd do something like trade for Johnson and sign Soderberg for 1 year at a price he can't say no to, that way you can roll with something like

Larkin
Johnson
Soderberg
Glendening

down the middle and still have Helm, Filppula, Fabbri, Rasmussen, Ehn, etc. to slide into C roles if the lines need blending

Soderberg, Helm, Glendening, Filppula are all UFAs after next season too, so no real long term damage to the cap. Johnson can slide down to 3C or shift to RW when guys like Rasmussen, Veleno, etc. surpass him.

I respectfully disagree with adding more mediocrity. 1 yr. of Brassard/Soderberg is ok. Granlund 1-2 yrs ideal, if he can actually play 2C. No thanks to the rest. Also, we'd better get back more than a ~57/58th overall to take on a 4yr. "cap dump" w/o any retention. Go to the Trade Board & look at the "What will Tampa Do" or something like that thread on pg1....

 

[lidstromiscool]

Not a "prove it" contract guy, but Mittelstadt in Buffalo might be a decent buy low kind of guy.

 

[Henkka]

I don't know if this guy fits what you're looking for, but I'd also suggest Erik Haula. Every time I see fans of the teams he is on talk about him, it seems there is talk that the guy is never happy with his IT/role, believing he can handle something bigger. So, well, why not? Plug him into that second line behind Larkin, give him 17-20 minutes a night, and see if he can back it up. Obviously, he might be looking for a place he can win at this point, or a long term contract, but if the Wings can essentially promise those big minutes, and maybe over pay a bit on a short term deal, I bet that gets them at the table.

Haula is the only legit Center on the UFA market and his dad is the greediest Finnish player agent (representing him) there exists on the planet. I could see him going after money. But he could also go for opportunity, with a shorter deal, and hunting for more money after ~3 years, when the new TV-deal is on the play cap will rise.

I think Haula is a great player, advanced stats darling, great possession player, good at faceoffs, superb skater and that makes him great 2-way. Never late on situations. He kind of reminds me of more offensive "Kris Draper" without the physicality aspect.

I think corona changed the cap things very problematic for all contenders, I don't know is there any room in any strong team for Haula. He could definitely fall to us, if he sees us as a team soon on a rise.

 

[RedWingzz]

This seems quite optimistic IMO, no offence because I hope it happens

If Yzerman can swing something like Johnson at full pop for a very modest return (Washington's 2nd round pick maybe?) I hope he doesn't hesitate

We could still sign Haula/ Galchenyuk/ Soderberg/ Brassard/ Granlund/ whoever, too

Ideally I'd do something like trade for Johnson and sign Soderberg for 1 year at a price he can't say no to, that way you can roll with something like

Larkin
Johnson
Soderberg
Glendening

down the middle and still have Helm, Filppula, Fabbri, Rasmussen, Ehn, etc. to slide into C roles if the lines need blending

Soderberg, Helm, Glendening, Filppula are all UFAs after next season too, so no real long term damage to the cap. Johnson can slide down to 3C or shift to RW when guys like Rasmussen, Veleno, etc. surpass him.

Tyler Johnson has negative value at the moment. Maybe I misinterpreted your post, but are you suggesting we trade a 2nd round pick for Tyler Johnson? Johnson's production has declined 3 years in a row, and is set to make 5 million per year until 2024. He is not a player that makes sense to bring in at the moment. He's been on the decline since he turned 27 years old, doesn't make sense to add him to a rebuilding team that won't be ready to compete for at least 2 more years.

Tyler Johnson has negative value, I don't think I'd straight up trade a 7th rounder for him due to the term of the contract. Now if Tampa was willing to eat say, 25% of his salary, then having Johnson for 4 more years at a &3.75 million cap hit is not as outrageous, and at that point I'd say his value is that of 7th rounder. It would be a mistake for Yzerman to trade for him for the simple fact that he was good 5 years ago.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Tampa isn't eating salary on Johnson, they would move Killorn or Palat if that happens. Think about why they are moving him and the other team when you propose some of this.

Also, I doubt Johnson is a negative asset to other teams. If Yzerman likes the price he should do it, I don't think we need to pony up a top 70 pick, but I am not sure on what the market will be and frankly if Johnson would waive to join this dumpster fire even with big minutes. It would help Zadina's development significantly in my opinion.

 

[RedWingzz]

Tampa isn't eating salary on Johnson, they would move Killorn or Palat if that happens. Think about why they are moving him and the other team when you propose some of this.

Also, I doubt Johnson is a negative asset to other teams. If Yzerman likes the price he should do it, I don't think we need to pony up a top 70 pick, but I am not sure on what the market will be and frankly if Johnson would waive to join this dumpster fire even with big minutes. It would help Zadina's development significantly in my opinion.

Then I'm not interested in Johnson lol, it's pretty simple. The guy is nowhere near a 5 million dollar player. It makes no sense for us to acquire a declining 30 year old with 4 years left on a bad contract in the middle (end?) of a rebuild. I realize Tampa is not in a position to eat salary, I'm well aware of the cap situation. I don't think there is a trade to be made around Tyler Johnson. You can get a reclamation UFA for half of the cost.

Also, not entirely sure on how Johnson helps Zadina? They have no connection whatsoever, what makes you think Tyler Johnson, an American 30 year old can help a guy like Zadina?

 

[raymond23]

Then I'm not interested in Johnson lol, it's pretty simple. The guy is nowhere near a 5 million dollar player. It makes no sense for us to acquire a declining 30 year old with 4 years left on a bad contract in the middle (end?) of a rebuild. I realize Tampa is not in a position to eat salary, I'm well aware of the cap situation. I don't think there is a trade to be made around Tyler Johnson. You can get a reclamation UFA for half of the cost.

Also, not entirely sure on how Johnson helps Zadina? They have no connection whatsoever, what makes you think Tyler Johnson, an American 30 year old can help a guy like Zadina?

Part of your reasoning is part of his appeal imo. He’s a good player that you could presumably get for cheap because of his contract status and Tampa’s cap situation. It adds a fast, competitive right-handed center to a team lacking talent down the middle. Gives guys like Zadina an opportunity to succeed without Larkin, because that’s the only place you can succeed right now on this team.

Of course I wouldn’t spend many assets to get Johnson. He’s basically have to fall into our lap because Tampa gets pinched.

But there are other options out there as well. I want Granlund to be honest, just because I’m still holding out hope he returns to that elite form he found for a minute in Minnesota.

 

[Go Wings]

Prove it contracts are 1 year not 2.

Quite frankly we need to make room for Svech, Rasmussen, Hirose and whoever we draft if it's a forward to make the team.

Granlund I would offer a 1 year deal too as long as we move out enough guys like Perlini, Erne etc to make room.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Prove it contracts are 1 year not 2.

Quite frankly we need to make room for Svech, Rasmussen, Hirose and whoever we draft if it's a forward to make the team.

Granlund I would offer a 1 year deal too as long as we move out enough guys like Perlini, Erne etc to make room.

No, we don't need to make room for Hirose. Hirose is hot garbage. If he wants a roster spot, he has to earn it again. Svech I would love to have take one, but if he can't stay healthy, I can't count on him. Rasmussen is a good enough player he will make his own spot. We don't have to "make room" for any guys. Our team was hot trash last year. We need more good players not less. If Laf/Byfield are good to play in the NHL this coming season... they'll be good enough to push a guy out of his roster spot.

 

[Hatter of the Beach]

Prove it contracts are 1 year not 2.

Quite frankly we need to make room for Svech, Rasmussen, Hirose and whoever we draft if it's a forward to make the team.

Granlund I would offer a 1 year deal too as long as we move out enough guys like Perlini, Erne etc to make room.

At this point Svech and Hirose have shown very little reason to “make a spot” on the roster for just for the sake of doing so. Don’t let sunk cost fallacy blind you, neither are likely to have more than 100 point NHL careers.

And I say that as someone who roots for Svech to succeed. It’s just unlikely to happen at this point, and if it does, he’s probably topping out as a third liner

 

[PullHard]

There is a lot of posturing in this thread regarding Johnson to diminish his value IMO

yes his production has been declining, as has his ice time, over the last couple of seasons

Also notice that players like Point, Cirelli, Gourde, etc. have all emerged from their AHL team and taken on middle 6 roles

This last season Johnson only scored 31 points, but he also only averaged 14:33 a game

In Detroit he would easily be playing 17-18 minutes a night as a 2C, when he had that kind of deployment in Tampa he was scoring at a 2C clip that ranged from slightly above 0.5 ppg to almost a full ppg season (he had a high shooting %)

He is older and likely won't have as good of linemates, but maybe Zadina breaks out (?)

I don't think it would be crazy to expect something like ~45-55 points if he was the permanent 2C for our team

I agree that we should try to take advantage of Tampa being backed into a cap corner, and I'm aware of what gets said on the trade board, but we also have to take into account real life and precedents that have been set. I'm thinking of the J.T. Miller trade mostly, and tried to gauge the difference in value/ age/ etc. by suggesting a very late 2nd round pick. If Yzerman can get Tyler Johnson for even less, that would be tremendous IMO.

 

[Go Wings]

No, we don't need to make room for Hirose. Hirose is hot garbage. If he wants a roster spot, he has to earn it again. Svech I would love to have take one, but if he can't stay healthy, I can't count on him. Rasmussen is a good enough player he will make his own spot. We don't have to "make room" for any guys. Our team was hot trash last year. We need more good players not less. If Laf/Byfield are good to play in the NHL this coming season... they'll be good enough to push a guy out of his roster spot.

We do need to make room. Roster turnover is essential to improving. Hirose is hot garbage, so is 3/4 of the f***ing rostet. At least at Hirose's age he has the ability to improve. I would much rather give some of these young players a chance to see what they can do then go with the vets or marginal players like Perlini and Erne.

 

[Winger98]

We do need to make room. Roster turnover is essential to improving. Hirose is hot garbage, so is 3/4 of the f***ing rostet. At least at Hirose's age he has the ability to improve. I would much rather give some of these young players a chance to see what they can do then go with the vets or marginal players like Perlini and Erne.

That turnover needs to come with players coming in and taking spots from the likes of Perlini and Erne, though. If Hirose can't come to camp and out play them, then I'm not sure why he deserves to have that spot opened up.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

We do need to make room. Roster turnover is essential to improving. Hirose is hot garbage, so is 3/4 of the f***ing rostet. At least at Hirose's age he has the ability to improve. I would much rather give some of these young players a chance to see what they can do then go with the vets or marginal players like Perlini and Erne.

No, he doesn't. Just because you're 23 doesn't mean you have untapped potential. Taro Hirose sucks as an NHL player. We should open up roster spots for GOOD players. Not for the same trash that's been filling in the roster.

Hell, Perlini, Erne, and their ilk at least had a chance at being something new. They were the roster turnover you were speaking about. Guys like Hirose, Perlini, Erne, Svechnikov, Givani Smith, etc... they force you to make a spot for them by their play. You don't make moves to free up spots for them until they show you that you have to. You want those types of players in your org because they all tend to be very hard workers and you'll face less of a drop off if your bottom of the roster players get injured because you can call up similar replacements from the A. Roster turnover needs to be organic and you drum out guys who are not good hockey players and you pump up guys who show you that they might be able to become one. Hirose had a great 10 game stretch at the end of 18-19 and was wholly irrelevant in 19-20. He got his shot and was underwhelming. He doesn't "deserve' another shot. He can make it so he does if he comes into whenever training camp is and shows the same 18-19 skill.

Basically though, Taro Hirose is a guy who has to make his role and grab his cheese. He isn't, nor should he, guaranteed a roster spot or should get a roster spot cleared for him through attrition or trades.

The only guy who isn't a dime a dozen in who we're talking about is Michael Rasmussen. Svechnikov would be higher up too if he hadn't had such bad luck with injuries when he was developing.

 

[Voodoo Glow Skulls]

Girgensons
C. Smith
Hinostroza

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

There is a lot of posturing in this thread regarding Johnson to diminish his value IMO

yes his production has been declining, as has his ice time, over the last couple of seasons

Also notice that players like Point, Cirelli, Gourde, etc. have all emerged from their AHL team and taken on middle 6 roles

This last season Johnson only scored 31 points, but he also only averaged 14:33 a game

In Detroit he would easily be playing 17-18 minutes a night as a 2C, when he had that kind of deployment in Tampa he was scoring at a 2C clip that ranged from slightly above 0.5 ppg to almost a full ppg season (he had a high shooting %)

He is older and likely won't have as good of linemates, but maybe Zadina breaks out (?)

I don't think it would be crazy to expect something like ~45-55 points if he was the permanent 2C for our team

I agree that we should try to take advantage of Tampa being backed into a cap corner, and I'm aware of what gets said on the trade board, but we also have to take into account real life and precedents that have been set. I'm thinking of the J.T. Miller trade mostly, and tried to gauge the difference in value/ age/ etc. by suggesting a very late 2nd round pick. If Yzerman can get Tyler Johnson for even less, that would be tremendous IMO.

Except that GM's know TB is in cap hell, with limited options, so they'll hardball them (and rightly so), like any good GM should do. Maybe SY gets some preferential treatment from JBB, as I could see the Wings/Bolts as good trading partners as each team is at the opposite end of the others life cycle.

 

[Snuggs]

UFA:

Red Wings sign LHD Erik Gustafsson to a 4 year deal worth 16 million dollars.
Red Wings sign C Alex Galchenyuk to a 3 year deal worth 9 million dollars.
Red Wings sign G Aaron Dell to a 2 year deal worth 1.7 million dollars.

Red Wings resign Anthony Mantha to a 5 year deal worth 35 million dollars.
Red Wings resign Tyler Bertuzzi to a 5 year deal worth 25 million dollars.
Red Wings resign Robbi Fabbri to his RFA offer.
Red Wings resign Dymtro Timashov to his RFA offer.


Idk, Something like this is what I expect, nothing earth shattering. Need more talent though and it all can't be from within, so fliers on Galchenyuk/Gustafsson might be worth it at reasonable cost. Dell is a pure back-up play, no real guy from within to even hold that role... cheap filler but the two other guys are upside plays, with options to trade at future trade deadlines for value. See if Timashov and Fabbri can continue to build off there success last year with us before offering long-term/multi-year deals or possibly trading them.

 

[Go Wings]

No, he doesn't. Just because you're 23 doesn't mean you have untapped potential. Taro Hirose sucks as an NHL player. We should open up roster spots for GOOD players. Not for the same trash that's been filling in the roster.

Hell, Perlini, Erne, and their ilk at least had a chance at being something new. They were the roster turnover you were speaking about. Guys like Hirose, Perlini, Erne, Svechnikov, Givani Smith, etc... they force you to make a spot for them by their play. You don't make moves to free up spots for them until they show you that you have to. You want those types of players in your org because they all tend to be very hard workers and you'll face less of a drop off if your bottom of the roster players get injured because you can call up similar replacements from the A. Roster turnover needs to be organic and you drum out guys who are not good hockey players and you pump up guys who show you that they might be able to become one. Hirose had a great 10 game stretch at the end of 18-19 and was wholly irrelevant in 19-20. He got his shot and was underwhelming. He doesn't "deserve' another shot. He can make it so he does if he comes into whenever training camp is and shows the same 18-19 skill.

Basically though, Taro Hirose is a guy who has to make his role and grab his cheese. He isn't, nor should he, guaranteed a roster spot or should get a roster spot cleared for him through attrition or trades.

The only guy who isn't a dime a dozen in who we're talking about is Michael Rasmussen. Svechnikov would be higher up too if he hadn't had such bad luck with injuries when he was developing.

Let me see if I have this right just to be clear you think can judge Taro Hirose as a crappy NHL player after he has play all of 36 games in the league?

Here is the list of players Hirose outscored in his whopping 26 NHL games this year:

Erne
Ehn
De la Rose
Perlini
Smith
Abdelkader
Biega

And bunch of other players that didn't play much.
He was within 2 points of tying:

Cholowski
Nemeth
Nielsen
Glendenning

But yah Hirose is not an NHL on this amazing roster

 

[Mijatovic]

Let me see if I have this right just to be clear you think can judge Taro Hirose as a crappy NHL player after he has play all of 36 games in the league?

Here is the list of players Hirose outscored in his whopping 26 NHL games this year:

Erne
Ehn
De la Rose
Perlini
Smith
Abdelkader
Biega

And bunch of other players that didn't play much.
He was within 2 points of tying:

Cholowski
Nemeth
Nielsen
Glendenning

But yah Hirose is not an NHL on this amazing roster

None of those bar Glendening are NHL worthy either. You arent making the point you want. We need GOOD players, not BAD ones.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Let me see if I have this right just to be clear you think can judge Taro Hirose as a crappy NHL player after he has play all of 36 games in the league?

Here is the list of players Hirose outscored in his whopping 26 NHL games this year:

Erne
Ehn
De la Rose
Perlini
Smith
Abdelkader
Biega

And bunch of other players that didn't play much.
He was within 2 points of tying:

Cholowski
Nemeth
Nielsen
Glendenning

But yah Hirose is not an NHL on this amazing roster

I don't want the least smelly turd. If I'm trading assets away so I can make room for a guy, I want him to have any chance of being an actual positive force.

None of the guys you listed should be on an NHL roster either. But that doesn't make it imperative to clear one of them off so Hirose can have a spot. Taro Hirose is literally a dime a dozen player. He's very undersized, he doesn't do a whole lot defensively or to help with possession. He's got a good pass and passable hockey IQ. That's his entire skill set. His relative advanced stats in that short audition are god awful. He's a pretty big negative in possession and provides precisely no physical presence.

Hirose's 5 assists were on the PP where he spent about the following time with players.
45% with Bertuzzi, Larkin, Mantha all together
14.5% more with just Bertuzzi and Larkin
8.7% more with Bertuzzi and Larkin with AA on the line too.

So that's about 70% of his PP time on PP1.

Taro Hirose - Fantasy Hockey Game Logs, Advanced Stats and more - Frozen Tools


All of the guys you listed are either trash and will be summarily dismissed from the roster, have a boat anchor contract that makes dismissing them prohibitively difficult, play an entirely different position, or brings an aspect to the game that Hirose doesn't. They were all used in checking line roles. Hirose was used on the second line and on PP1.