GWT: PL Matchweek (mostly) 14

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Mount was criticised constantly last year for being weak on the ball, what in tarnation are you talking about

He was criticized more for that he contributes no end product, yet he's played 95% of the time in a position you expect end product. Much more talented offensive players who've produced that meanwhile have sat on the bench and had faulty narratives surrounding their play two years in a row. It's not a coincidence.

 

[Gecklund]

You’re not sure Kai was better than Mount last season? Lol

Yeah Kai has definitely struggled with injury/COVID this season and so you can say Mount has been better this season but Kai is a better player all around. Just hasn’t been healthy this year to really show his quality.

 

[Blender]

Yeah Kai has definitely struggled with injury/COVID this season and so you can say Mount has been better this season but Kai is a better player all around. Just hasn’t been healthy this year to really show his quality.

This is the correct answer of course.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Nothing dishonest, you just aren't credible and regularly say things that are untrue. Maybe actually respond to any of my valid points about statistics, Werner and Havertz comments about the PL, etc. that refute what you say instead of just accusing me of dishonesty and saying you'll ignore me?

Or you back your club and coach without ever questioning their decision making. I already responded to this idea that Mount contributes what he's supposed to. Did Mount not take Havertz position today? Havertz best position is a #10. Chelsea played Jorginho, Kante, and Mount today. Mount has had a big problem in his career in lacking goals and assists that you'd expect out of a #10 because he lacks attacking quality. A few Chelsea fans, like you, have now tried to reinvent Mount's role to push back on valid criticism. So I'm supposed to believe Chelsea now plays with three holding midfielders? Rubbish. Lampard is still trying to shoehorn Mount into the lineup over better players.

Lampard loves the faulty narrative surrounding Havertz because it takes pressure off of him playing Mount. Same thing as last season.

"Replies to tweets" is in no way objective or a proper sample of all Chelsea fans.

I guess you now speak for all fans.

 

[Blender]

Or you back your club and coach without ever questioning their decision making. I already responded to this idea that Mount contributes what he's supposed to. Did Mount not take Havertz position today? Havertz best position is a #10. Chelsea played Jorginho, Kante, and Mount today. Mount has had a big problem in his career in lacking goals and assists that you'd expect out of a #10. A few Chelsea fans, like you, have now tried to reinvent Mount's role to push back on valid criticism. So I'm supposed to believe Chelsea now plays with three holding midfielders? Rubbish. Lampard is still trying to shoehorn Mount into the lineup over better players.

Lampard loves the faulty narrative surrounding Havertz because it takes pressure off of him playing Mount. Same thing as last season.



I guess you now speak for all fans.

Mount played as a #8 today and has for most of the season. I mean come on...

I guess you now speak for all fans.

What the hell is this? I ask for some actual data to support your claim, and you accuse me of "speaking for all fans"? This is not how this works, the burden of proof is on the person making the claim.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Mount played as a #8 today and has for most of the season. I mean come on...

So the team already has Jorginho and Kante in the lineup, but needs a reinvented #8 whose only called a #8 by people like you because he can't add enough offensively, over a 100M #10?

As I said, Lampard's trying to shoehorn Mount into the lineup. Did so again. He should be called out for this blatant favoritism. It was the same thing last season.

 

[Blender]

So the team already has Jorginho and Kante in the lineup, but needs a reinvented #8 whose only called a #8 by people like you because he can't add enough offensively, over a 100M #10?

He has added plenty offensively, I posted the stats earlier and you ignored them.

"Reinvented #8" is nonsense, he's at his best as a box to box but has played all over due to need at times.

 

[Wee Baby Seamus]

Weird to me that we're having this dumb conversation after a game in which Mount had an assist and sent in the cross that created another.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

He has added plenty offensively, I posted the stats earlier and you ignored them.

"Reinvented #8" is nonsense, he's at his best as a box to box but has played all over due to need at times.

What you posted is not offense.

And the goalposts have completely moved in regards to Mount. Last season, he did slightly better at scoring goals, even though his combined numbers were brutal, so we were told he adds goals from midfield. This season, he's not been able to score, so now he adds assists.

What you have is a player whose played over 5000 minutes for Chelsea, and only has 22 goal contributions, 80+% of which has come in an advanced position.

Thats good enough to keep Havertz out of the lineup? Rubbish. It's favoritism. Lampard enjoys the British media narrative that Havertz is struggling. He's really not even struggling that much, but I guess he's not yet strong enough, so that means he must be really struggling pretty badly.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Weird to me that we're having this dumb conversation after a game in which Mount had an assist and sent in the cross that created another.

It was pointed out before the game. I must've gotten a reply from that guy before the game. It continued after the game because I don't check the website 24/7, and only saw a reply then. I was busy watching the Chelsea game after being told I don't watch Chelsea play.

Regardless, the point needs to be made because it's the same thing as last season. Soon enough Mount will be taking the position of Ziyech or Werner. He's already accomplished it with Pulisic and now Havertz.

 

[Blender]

What you posted is not offense.

And the goalposts have completely moved in regards to Mount. Last season, he did slightly better at scoring goals, even though his combined numbers were brutal, so we were told he adds goals from midfield. This season, he's not been able to score, so now he adds assists.

What you have is a player whose played over 5000 minutes for Chelsea, and only has 22 goal contributions, 80+% of which has come in an advanced position.

Thats good enough to keep Havertz out of the lineup? Rubbish. It's favoritism. Lampard enjoys the British media narrative that Havertz is struggling. He's really not even struggling that much, but I guess he's not yet strong enough, so that means he must be really struggling pretty badly.

Assists, key passes, crosses, etc. are not offense? This is just a meaningless word salad.

It was pointed out before the game. I must've gotten a reply from that guy before the game. It continued after the game because I don't check the website 24/7, and only saw a reply then. I was busy watching the Chelsea game after being told I don't watch Chelsea play.

Regardless, the point needs to be made because it's the same thing as last season. Soon enough Mount will be taking the position of Ziyech or Werner. He's already accomplished it with Pulisic and now Havertz.

You said Mount played as a #10 in a game he played as a #8, his position in most games this season. Sorry that I don't find your claims of watching them game credible.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Assists, key passes, crosses, etc. are not offense? This is just a meaningless word salad.

I addressed assists, although I guess thats just meaningless word salad.

Key passes and crosses are not primary offensive contributions. It's like raving over a player's shots/shots assists per game in hockey. What matters is the ball going in the net. And besides, is that even impressive? How does Mount rank in those categories compared to the whole league? He plays probably the most minutes on the team. Of course he'd rank relatively high just by virtue of having more reps on the field.

You said Mount played as a #10 in a game he played as a #8, his position in most games this season. Sorry that I don't find your claims of watching them game credible.

I'll save both of us time in the future then.

 

[Blender]

I addressed assists, although I guess thats just meaningless word salad.

Key passes and crosses are not primary offensive contributions. It's like raving over a player's shots/shots assists per game in hockey. What matters is the ball going in the net. And besides, is that even impressive? How does Mount rank in those categories compared to the whole league? He plays probably the most minutes on the team. Of course he'd rank relatively high just by virtue of having more reps on the field.

He was doing pretty well relative to the league last time I saw, unfortunately the best website for quick comparisons no longer exists so it's harder to compare now.

Everything but assists were per game stats, so he's ranking that high per game not just in raw totals.

Saying that key passes, crosses, passes, etc. aren't offense, only goals/assists are, is like saying that tackles and interceptions aren't defense, only goals against and clean sheets are. The logic doesn't make any sense, the build up to scoring is just as important as scoring in a team game.

 

[The Abusement Park]

This is the problem.

Havertz is held to a standard where he needs to live up to a 100M price tag right away, a level he quite frankly has never yet shown consistently, and because he's not able to do that yet, he's questioned and criticized every game. Meanwhile, Mount gets to run around, do nothing, take a few nice set pieces, flick his hair up and down, commit a foul after he's out of position, and Chelsea fans tell us how he's such a valuable midfielder. The level people say Havertz is struggling at is a higher level than the level some of you say Mount is playing very well at.

They aren’t even playing the same position!! Also no one is writing off Havertz because of a slow start? Some players need time to adjust before they hit full stride. I mean the exact same thing happened with Pulisic last year, yet now he’s been one of the best wingers in the league.

 

[AB13]

If Lampard's long term strategy is to continue with the 433, which seems to be the case, then Havertz possibly has no future at the club. If Chelsea want to play 433, where does he fit in? As a link man up top with Pulisic and Werner either side of him, a bit like Firmino? That could work but he's certainly never going to work in a midfield 3. Havertz is a raumdeuter, it is just not his game.

Havertz is a top player individually. I just don't see the need for him in this system unless Chelsea plan on selling Mount which I doubt.

 

[Blender]

If Lampard's long term strategy is to continue with the 433, which seems to be the case, then Havertz has no future at the football club. If Chelsea want to play 433, where does he fit in? As a link man up top with Pulisic and Werner either side of him, a bit like Firmino? That could work but he's certainly never going to work in a midfield 3. Havertz is a raumdeuter, it is just not his game.

Havertz is a top player individually. I just don't see the need for him in this system unless Chelsea plan on selling Mount which I doubt.

We've had so many of our attacking players get injured this year I'm not sure whether the current 4-3-3 is the desired long term formation, or just something we're playing because of the players that have been healthy.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

They aren’t even playing the same position!! Also no one is writing off Havertz because of a slow start? Some players need time to adjust before they hit full stride. I mean the exact same thing happened with Pulisic last year, yet now he’s been one of the best wingers in the league.

I hope you're kidding. If Mount wasn't in the lineup today, it would've been Havertz. And this idea that they don't play the same position is because Mount isn't good at attacking. Mount was also actually the furthest forward of the Chelsea midfielders, but like usual he provides no attacking threat from the run of play.

And the same exact thing happening with Pulisic last season is the whole issue. Neither new arrival was struggling, yet they sat behind free minutes for Mount being held to a standard Mount would never be held to. Mount is held to a standard where as long as he doesn't put the ball in his own net, he's earning his place. Players like Havertz and Pulisic have to be in top form from the start of their careers, otherwise we hear how they are struggling to adapt to the Premier League. Its blatant favoritism from Lampard towards Mount.

 

[The Abusement Park]

I hope you're kidding. If Mount wasn't in the lineup today, it would've been Havertz. And this idea that they don't play the same position is because Mount isn't good at attacking. Mount was also actually the furthest forward of the Chelsea midfielders, but like usual he provides no attacking threat from the run of play.

And the same exact thing happening with Pulisic last season is the whole issue. Neither new arrival was struggling, yet they sat behind free minutes for Mount being held to a standard Mount would never be held to. Mount is held to a standard where as long as he doesn't put the ball in his own net, he's earning his place. Players like Havertz and Pulisic have to be in top form from the start of their careers, otherwise we hear how they are struggling to adapt to the Premier League. Its blatant favoritism from Lampard towards Mount.

He was playing an attacking 8 role. I mean that's like saying Pogba at Juve played in the 10 spot. It's just inaccurate. It's also not blatant favoritism at all, you say Mount can't contribute offensively yet he got an assist and played a huge part in the other goal? Plus you also completely disregard any sort of impact he has offensively unless it's goals because it doesn't fit you narrative? Also he has more goal contributions this year than Haverts as it is.

Havertz has been hurt and had covid and it's affected his play on the field a little. Add in the fact he's a 21 year old moving to a brand new country, playing in a new team, so that could also be a factor as well. I mean it's not even remotely unusual for players to have a slow start in a new team. Chances are Havertz will be balling out at the end of the year because he's that good of a player.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

He was playing an attacking 8 role. I mean that's like saying Pogba at Juve played in the 10 spot. It's just inaccurate. It's also not blatant favoritism at all, you say Mount can't contribute offensively yet he got an assist and played a huge part in the other goal? Plus you also completely disregard any sort of impact he has offensively unless it's goals because it doesn't fit you narrative? Also he has more goal contributions this year than Haverts as it is.

Havertz has been hurt and had covid and it's affected his play on the field a little. Add in the fact he's a 21 year old moving to a brand new country, playing in a new team, so that could also be a factor as well. I mean it's not even remotely unusual for players to have a slow start in a new team. Chances are Havertz will be balling out at the end of the year because he's that good of a player.

So you are telling me Chelsea played with two 6's and an attacking 8? Why? It makes no sense. In my opinion, this Mount position switch is all just a guise to justify his place over better players. There have actually been times where he plays as an attacking 8. Today, he had Jorginho and Kante behind him. He was being used as a #10. He contributed an assist on a set piece. He contributes nothing from the run of play offensively because he's not a good attacker. You don't have a guy in the lineup over a 100M #10 because he takes set pieces well.

And I never said play Havertz when he was hurt or ill, but he's neither hurt or ill now. He's not struggled this season, like so many have said. He simply hasn't yet lived up to his price tag. Anyone who knew his game well at Bayer Leverkusen knew he was nowhere close to justifying that price tag immediately. He's done well enough to be playing ahead of Mount. That much is a certainty, in my opinion. This adjustment stuff is an excuse Chelsea's coach uses to get Mount in the lineup. It was the same thing last season.

 

[Live in the Now]

Havertz has played every single game since he got COVID, btw. That's every single game since the end of November, which is frankly lunacy and if anything he should have played much less.

 

[Blender]

Chelsea played with 3 #8s today. My f***ing god.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Chelsea played with 3 #8s today. My f***ing god.

Why didn't you watch the game???

 

[The Abusement Park]

So you are telling me Chelsea played with two 6's and an attacking 8? Why? It makes no sense. In my opinion, this Mount position switch is all just a guise to justify his place over better players. There have actually been times where he plays as an attacking 8. Today, he had Jorginho and Kante behind him. He was being used as a #10. He contributed an assist on a set piece. He contributes nothing from the run of play offensively because he's not a good attacker. You don't have a guy in the lineup over a 100M #10 because he takes set pieces well.

And I never said play Havertz when he was hurt or ill, but he's neither hurt or ill now. He's not struggled this season, like so many have said. He simply hasn't yet lived up to his price tag. Anyone who knew his game well at Bayer Leverkusen knew he was nowhere close to justifying that price tag immediately. He's done well enough to be playing ahead of Mount. That much is a certainty, in my opinion. This adjustment stuff is an excuse Chelsea's coach uses to get Mount in the lineup. It was the same thing last season.

Well no... but I figured I didn't have to explain they played with three 8's....

But it's hard to take you seriously when you say Mount contributes nothing offensively. It's just plain false. but again this entire conversation is stupid because they don't play the same position or fill the same role as players.

 

[Blender]

Why didn't you watch the game???

Here's even some heat maps to reiterate it. The 3 of them (4 with Kovacic on for Jorginho) made most of their touches around the centerline just on their own half, and all 4 of them made forward and back runs from box to box. Jorginho operated slightly behind Mount/Kante, but not enough to claim either were operating as a #10.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Well no... but I figured I didn't have to explain they played with three 8's....

But it's hard to take you seriously when you say Mount contributes nothing offensively. It's just plain false. but again this entire conversation is stupid because they don't play the same position or fill the same role as players.

I've never heard of a team using three 8's. Thats a new one. I've also never heard anyone describe Jorginho as a #8, and Kante's best usage isn't as a #8 either. Mount's end product numbers both years at Chelsea are terrible. This is having being played as a winger or #10 80+% of the time. Calling it an advanced 8 to not actually expect attacking output when Jorginho and Kante are behind him is disingenuous.