Salary Cap: Pittsburgh Salary Cap Thread: Kane?!? The only Kane I want is the candy

[ronduguayshair]

Cool. I'll take the word of the 3 NHL locker rooms he's essentially been kicked out of already.

Exactly. Why are the keyboard experts wanting to wash this guy clean? It doesn't make sense.

 

[SomeDude]

The Penguins won't acquire Evander Kane. Since Matt Cooke, the Penguins have not employed a single player who could be classified as a "bad boy", and even he wasn't a severe malcontent in the locker room. Neither was James Neal.

Even their enforcers - Eric Godard, Ryan Reaves - were considered good guys in the locker room. Phil Kessel wasn't a bad guy, just a source of frustration with coaches. Kane, however, has a long, long history of being troubled off the ice and wearing out his welcome in the locker room. It's a shame, because he's a fantastic talent.

But he's not worth the trouble and the Penguins won't be interested. The fact that they were scouting that particular game was likely a coincidence. Teams scout AHL games all the time.

Steve Downie played for the Pens after Cooke was gone. I don't think the Pens are morally better than any other team. I just know as a fan I want nothing to do with Evander Kane being affiliated with the organization.

 

[Empoleon8771]

The Penguins won't acquire Evander Kane. Since Matt Cooke, the Penguins have not employed a single player who could be classified as a "bad boy", and even he wasn't a severe malcontent in the locker room. Neither was James Neal.

Even their enforcers - Eric Godard, Ryan Reaves - were considered good guys in the locker room. Phil Kessel wasn't a bad guy, just a source of frustration with coaches. Kane, however, has a long, long history of being troubled off the ice and wearing out his welcome in the locker room. It's a shame, because he's a fantastic talent.

But he's not worth the trouble and the Penguins won't be interested. The fact that they were scouting that particular game was likely a coincidence. Teams scout AHL games all the time.

Hextall claimed Friedman and Friedman apparently had issues with the Flyers. JR also signed Downie back in 2015.

I'd go for Kane for a few reasons:

1) Potential on ice impact
2) Likely low cost in terms of assets (lets be honest, we don't have much)
3) Gives us something to talk about
4) Low risk. If he were to do something else really stupid, i'm sure there's a contract clause or league ruling that could be useful. Or, send him down and when he doesn't report ... boom.

I think the risk is higher than this. I think the risk would be something like "Kane does something bad but it's not breach of contract bad, so the Penguins would be stuck with $3.5 million in dead cap space". I think that is truly the worst case scenario with acquiring Kane.

 

[ronduguayshair]

It takes a special kind of terrible to earn the reputation Kane has earned.

I'm from Vancouver and I'm not kidding when I say that every single person I know who has interacted with him there has a negative story to tell.

The guy is a human tire fire and I sincerely hope the Pens don't acquire him.

EDIT: To be clear, this isn't just moral grandstanding - Kane is the type of guy who single-handedly drags down locker rooms. He's done it before (players on the record about him doing it in both Winnipeg and San Jose) and he'll do it again. It doesn't matter that our leadership gang is in the room, Kane will drag them all down.

Do you know about keyboard experting? It where fans make judgements on teams and their structure based on fantasy like they are playing GM mode on a video game. They assemble a collection of hockey cards and not a team that has the components that it takes to win.

Its amateur hour.

 

[Pens1566]

Hextall claimed Friedman and Friedman apparently had issues with the Flyers. JR also signed Downie back in 2015.



I think the risk is higher than this. I think the risk would be something like "Kane does something bad but it's not breach of contract bad, so the Penguins would be stuck with $3.5 million in dead cap space". I think that is truly the worst case scenario with acquiring Kane.

And even then, I'd still consider that low risk. I know, it's not my money ... but, still seems small in context.


Oh, on the other point, we still have CDS on the roster. As much as that's already been talked about around here. I'm sure there are more similar situations that we're just not aware of.

 

[BobCole]

Hextall claimed Friedman and Friedman apparently had issues with the Flyers. JR also signed Downie back in 2015.



I think the risk is higher than this. I think the risk would be something like "Kane does something bad but it's not breach of contract bad, so the Penguins would be stuck with $3.5 million in dead cap space". I think that is truly the worst case scenario with acquiring Kane.

I think some people here are too narrowly focused on, "what if he does some catastrophic thing and we're stuck holding the bag?"

I think the riskier (and more likely) scenario for any team that acquires Kane is this:

Each and every day Kane is just a bad guy doing frustrating bad guy things. It bothers everybody. It worsens morale subtly across the locker room. He contributes reasonably well on the ice. Nobody likes him. Nobody wants to play with/for him. Everybody in the room feels like a burden has been lifted when he eventually leaves the team.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I think some people here are too narrowly focused on, "what if he does some catastrophic thing and we're stuck holding the bag?"

I think the riskier (and more likely) scenario for any team that acquires Kane is this:

Each and every day Kane is just a bad guy doing frustrating bad guy things. It bothers everybody. It worsens morale subtly across the locker room. He contributes reasonably well on the ice. Nobody likes him. Nobody wants to play with/for him. Everybody in the room feels like a burden has been lifted when he eventually leaves the team (whether by suspension, trade, or free agency departure).

I think this is valid, but personally I don't think that is as bad as getting stuck with that dead cap space. Just IMO.

 

[SEALBound]

Do you know about keyboard experting? It where fans make judgements on teams and their structure based on fantasy like they are playing GM mode on a video game. They assemble a collection of hockey cards and not a team that has the components that it takes to win.

Its amateur hour.

Doesn't really matter which side of the argument one is on with this...this applies to both sides. There's isn't a "well I'm on the "right" side therefore my judgement is correct and others who disagree are wrong" side.

 

[SomeDude]

Hextall claimed Friedman and Friedman apparently had issues with the Flyers. JR also signed Downie back in 2015.



I think the risk is higher than this. I think the risk would be something like "Kane does something bad but it's not breach of contract bad, so the Penguins would be stuck with $3.5 million in dead cap space". I think that is truly the worst case scenario with acquiring Kane.

Where did you hear about the Friedman thing? I wondered if something was going on there because every time he's in the lineup vs Philly it seems like they want to murder him.

I think the biggest risk is that his influence on the locker room deteriorates the culture (real or imagined) that this era of the franchise has created and hopefully passes to the next one. I remember reading an article after Kane was traded from Buffalo worrying if his influence on their young players like Eichel would have a lasting affect. Obviously, Evander Kane is not responsible for the gong show that is the Buffalo Sabres but I'm sure he did not help steer things in the right direction.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

Steve Downie played for the Pens after Cooke was gone. I don't think the Pens are morally better than any other team. I just know as a fan I want nothing to do with Evander Kane being affiliated with the organization.

At the time, we knew about Downie's on-ice behavior, his head-hunting, and his fight with Akim Aliu in juniors. But I don't think we knew of Aliu's perspective of the fight that he later revealed in 2020, when he called Downie a racist psychopath. We knew about his suckerpunch of Jason Blake, his head hits, etc., but he also hadn't been involved in anything to that extent for a couple years.

So he'd be the closest, and my omission was an accident, but I still don't think Downie's behavior compares to the off-ice, locker-room issues Kane represents.

 

[BobCole]

I think this is valid, but personally I don't think that is as bad as getting stuck with that dead cap space. Just IMO.

Fair enough - both are issues.

I resent the old boys club that run hockey teams and I'm pretty tolerant of "different personalities" in the locker room. But some guys are just jerks, plain and simple. And Kane's reputation speaks for itself. He's a bad guy (on and off the ice). People do not want to play with him. Listen to Buff talk about effectively kicking him off the Jets.

We've all encountered people like Kane. He's that troubled kid who showed up in fourth grade and nobody liked. He left the next year and you almost didn't notice until it dawned on you, "oh, you know why school was nicer today? Because Evander's not here."

 

[wgknestrick]

I'd go for Kane for a few reasons:

1) Potential on ice impact
2) Likely low cost in terms of assets (lets be honest, we don't have much)
3) Gives us something to talk about
4) Low risk. If he were to do something else really stupid, i'm sure there's a contract clause or league ruling that could be useful. Or, send him down and when he doesn't report ... boom.

But what if he's not that good at hockey anymore? A 30yo winger that doesn't have a high SH% (and he has a ton of seasons below 10% SH) sounds a lot like every player we already employ outside of Jake. This team isn't losing games due to not having as many hits as the other, it's goals. I'm sorry, but Kane just doesn't help your team win many games vs a DOC who is already here, has no risk, and is probably a better contributor. The only value he has is possibly neutralizing Tom Wilson from injuring one of our good players by fighting him and having them both be in the box. His hitting value has him out of position and giving up just as many goals against as he contributes towards. That's not much TBH. There is a ton of risk here for no reward, and I haven't even started on the character stuff.

This is a textbook average player (and this was a high outlier of a season for him. 2 seasons ago he was well below the average red line):

SHOOTING = AVERAGE

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Fair enough - both are issues.

I resent the old boys club that run hockey teams and I'm pretty tolerant of "different personalities" in the locker room. But some guys are just jerks, plain and simple. And Kane's reputation speaks for itself. He's a bad guy (on and off the ice). People do not want to play with him. Listen to Buff talk about effectively kicking him off the Jets.

We've all encountered people like Kane. He's that troubled kid who showed up in fourth grade and nobody liked. He left the next year and you almost didn't notice until it dawned on you, "oh, you know why school was nicer today? Because Evander's not here."

Exactly my thoughts. The good ol boys club in the NHL is reprehensible and I sometimes wonder if guys are blacklisted for no reason.

But man Kane has enough smoke in both his personal and professional life to know he's fire.

How much more does he have to prove to people that he is who he is?

 

[BobCole]

Exactly my thoughts. The good ol boys club in the NHL is reprehensible and I sometimes wonder if guys are blacklisted for no reason.

But man Kane has enough smoke in both his personal and professional life to know he's fire.

How much more does he have to prove to people that he is who he is?

Agreed.

NHLers aren't the type to openly speak negatively about a guy still playing in the league and yet MULTIPLE players have gone on the record about Kane. This isn't a smear campaign (the likes of which Pittsburgh media love to engage in when the Pens trade a guy like Despres) - this is a well earned reputation for being a bad guy. I don't care that he can put up 50 points. Even troglodyte NHL GMs are steering clear of him...at least so far. But yeah, if JJ can get a 5 year deal at 3M+/yr., I assume *somebody* will be the idiot to go after Kane. They will regret it, just like every other team that has employed him.

 

[Coastal Kev]

Exactly my thoughts. The good ol boys club in the NHL is reprehensible and I sometimes wonder if guys are blacklisted for no reason.

But man Kane has enough smoke in both his personal and professional life to know he's fire.

How much more does he have to prove to people that he is who he is?

It's called human nature. People conform to the mob, and most don't even realize that they are part of the mob. But standing out, walking your own path makes others very uncomfortable. Kane could or could not fall into this category, but nothing I have heard about him would preclude me from taking a flyer, especially at a reduced rate.

 

[BobCole]

Last thought on this...

I IMPLORE ALL OF YOU TO LOOK INTO BRIAN BURKE'S COMMENTS ABOUT "JERKS."

Now that I remember that, I would say the odds of the Pens acquiring Kane are precisely zero. I'm actually shocked our org's name was linked to him at all. There's no way Kane EVER sniffs the roster of a Brian Burke team.

 

[BobCole]

It's called human nature. People conform to the mob, and most don't even realize that they are part of the mob. But standing out, walking your own path makes others very uncomfortable. Kane could or could not fall into this category, but nothing I have heard about him would preclude me from taking a flyer, especially at a reduced rate.

Have you been living under a rock or have you intentionally avoided "hearing" about him. There are literally countless instances of hockey people ON THE RECORD about Kane.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

It's called human nature. People conform to the mob, and most don't even realize that they are part of the mob. But standing out, walking your own path makes others very uncomfortable. Kane could or could not fall into this category, but nothing I have heard about him would preclude me from taking a flyer, especially at a reduced rate.

So making a fake Covid card is super cool and edgy because it goes against conformity?

 

[BobCole]

So making a fake Covid card is super cool and edgy because it goes against conformity?

The idea of drawing a parallel between Evander Kane and Dead Poet's Society is absurd to the point that it's literally laughable. Like, I literally laughed.

 

[PensandCaps]

Best thing for the Pens right now is the NHL having a stoppage due to covid for a few weeks. Get Malkin, Jake, Rust healthy.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Possible COVID stoppage and Olympic boycott.

Looking like another super stable, no-drama season in the NHL.

 

[PensandCaps]

Pipe dream is trading for Giroux to run the Powerplay.

 

[pistolpete11]

I'd also like to add that I think there is an important distinction between guys that cause problems with their teammates and players that cause problems with coaches/media/NHL Player Safety. Shit, even guys that have legal problems. Say what you will about guys like Kessel or Cooke or whoever else has been on the Penguins, but I don't recall anybody ever causing the type of problems with their teammates like Kane has done in multiple organizations now. Sure tempers flare from time to time like when Malkin beat up Adams or Hornqvist didn't get Crosby the puck when he wanted it, but to have your teammates actively hate you? That's a tough thing for me to ignore.

 

[Pancakes]

Anyone else think we're headed for another shutdown with the season? Covid is out of control right now and ravaging so many NHL teams. I know the NHL doesn't want to shutdown but how long are they gonna keep this up?

And moreover what do they do when it gets to the playoffs if a team gets like a quarter of their roster with positive tests? Yeah the vaccines are such that nobody is gonna die probably so that's good, but if a playoff team is losing 1/4th of its roster or more how do you play those series? Do you just delay the series indefinitely until teams are mostly healthy? Or just force them to call up who they can?

 

[Turin]

If the NHL shuts down again they should stay that way. I’d rather no hockey than fake seasons like the last two.