Salary Cap: Pittsburgh Penguins Salary Cap: Time is Relevant and Empty Arenas are Wormholes

[Zirakzigil]

Want to get in a bad mood?

I know you all forgot but....Sheary is on the Penguins.

Enjoy your weekend

Just once I’d like to see the team play without a bunch of soft midget wingers.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

My favorite part of the argument is people want Jake with Sid and Sheary not in the line up so there is really no winning here.

I think everyone would be happy with Jake - Malkin - Rust, but it isn’t like Jake - Crosby - Zucker is chopped liver or something. Especially since Sid is likely feeling way better upon returning and was just as good as Malkin to start the season.

Throwing Zucker on his wrong wing just to give Crosby another weapon while you leave Malkin with the likes of Marleau and Rust only rubs salt in the wound.

Rust had a great 3/4 season but he's never shown he can be a primary scoring line winger in the playoffs. Marleau is 40. Malkin needs more to work with if we want to maximize his talent and make his line a consistent threat.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Throwing Zucker on his wrong wing just to give Crosby another weapon while you leave Malkin with the likes of Marleau and Rust only rubs salt in the wound.

Rust had a great 3/4 season but he's never shown he can be a primary scoring line winger in the playoffs. Marleau is 40. Malkin needs more to work with if we want to maximize his talent and make his line a consistent threat.

Yeah I mean I'm good with whatever configuration involving Zucker and Guentzel between BOTH scoring lines but loading up Sid's line to the point of playing off wings just strikes me as like... borderline vindictive.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Yeah I mean I'm good with whatever configuration involving Zucker and Guentzel between BOTH scoring lines but loading up Sid's line to the point of playing off wings just strikes me as like... borderline vindictive.

Kind of a moot point though since I figure Sheary's a lock to start on Crosby's RW.

I can't believe they traded Kahun for Sheary to put him in the bottom 6. That wouldn't make any sense...not that the deal was in any way sensible.

 

[Gurglesons]

Throwing Zucker on his wrong wing just to give Crosby another weapon while you leave Malkin with the likes of Marleau and Rust only rubs salt in the wound.

Rust had a great 3/4 season but he's never shown he can be a primary scoring line winger in the playoffs. Marleau is 40. Malkin needs more to work with if we want to maximize his talent and make his line a consistent threat.

Rust led our team in ES goals outside of Guentzel from 15-18 in the playoffs? He was the primary scorer in both our cup runs on wing?

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Rust led our team in ES goals outside of Guentzel from 15-18 in the playoffs?

I refuse to go down the "ES goal" rabbit hole again - we beat that into the ground with Sheary. That's not the measure of a good top 6 wing, let alone a primary scoring wing. Rust was a Cy Young winner with 5 ES assists in 58 games over that 3 year period, which adds up to being 4th among our wingers aka not a primary scoring wing option.

Maybe Rust will continue his '19-'20 regular season scoring exploits into the playoffs, but it's irresponsible to count on that when a) Crosby would already have Guentzel and b) Zucker is a natural LWer by his own admission.

 

[Gurglesons]

I refuse to go down the "ES goal" rabbit hole again. We beat that into the ground with Sheary. That's not the measure of a good top 6 wing, let alone a primary scoring wing.

Rust was a Cy Young winner with 5 ES assists in 58 games over that 3 year period, which adds up to being 4th among our wingers aka not a primary scoring wing option.

ES goals is production as a top six winger. He led the team in ES production in the back to back playoffs. Saying he “has not proven to be a primary top six winger” when he led the team in ES goals in the back to back wins is one of the dumber things you’ve said

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

ES goals is production as a top six winger. He led the team in ES production in the back to back playoffs. Saying he “has not proven to be a primary top six winger” when he led the team in ES goals in the back to back wins is one of the dumber things you’ve said

No, that would be ES points, which you conveniently ignore whenever possible because hey, why should a scoring winger be able to create anything offensively for someone else? Do you know how absurd it sounds to continually pretend that shortcoming doesn't matter?

ES goals are part of the equation but far from the whole thing. If you can score ES goals but stink in other offensive areas of the game, then your competence in that role should be called into question.

Sheary sucks as a top 6 winger and Rust has not produced like a primary scoring line winger to date.

 

[Gurglesons]

No, that would be ES points, which you conveniently ignore whenever possible because hey, why should a scoring winger be able to create anything offensively for someone else? Do you know how absurd it sounds to continually pretend that shortcoming doesn't matter?

Sheary sucks as a top 6 winger and Rust has not produced like a primary scoring line winger to date.

Okay. In terms of ESP only Kessel was better as a winger during our cup wins.

Sheary was not a primary scoring line winger in the playoffs for us ever. Rust was arguably our best winger at ES through both runs. Kessel and Jake were obviously better individually in 15-16 and 16-17.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Okay. In terms of EVP only Kessel was better as a winger during our cup wins.

Sheary was not a primary scoring line winger in the playoffs for us ever. Rust was arguably our best winger at ES through both runs. Kessel and Jake were obviously better individually in 15-16 and 16-17.

He didn't exactly have a lot of competition outside of Kessel, since Guentzel was only there for the last run.

Rust is a fine complementary guy but he's not a player I'd feel confident in being the #1 option for Crosby or Malkin yet, particularly since we have Zucker now. I don't get putting Zucker on his wrong wing. Why put a player on his wrong wing when there's a natural opening on LW and you yourself stoutly defended the Kahun for Sheary trade based on the idea that the latter was a better fit in the top 6:

We needed a player that fit in our top six and a bottom sixer that was an NHLer.

Honestly, I was really upset when the Kahun trade broke. I dug a little into how spotty his production was after that, focused on the fact he didn’t fit in our top six and then the fact Sid and L4 was floundering. I think that is the main three reasons you saw Kahun traded.

So we trade a better overall player in Kahun based on the idea that Sheary will rekindle chemistry with Crosby in the top 6, but now we have Zucker so we're gonna put him on his wrong side and put Sheary in the bottom 6?

That's...haphazard. I hope Sullivan and JR are a lot more methodical than that.

 

[Gurglesons]

He didn't exactly have a lot of competition outside of Kessel, since Guentzel was only there for the last run.

Rust is a fine complementary guy but he's not a player I'd feel confident in being the #1 option for Crosby or Malkin yet, particularly since we have Zucker now. I don't get putting Zucker on his wrong wing. Why put a player on his wrong wing when there's a natural opening on LW and you yourself stoutly defended the Kahun for Sheary trade based on the idea that the latter was a better fit in the top 6:





So we trade a better overall player in Kahun based on the idea that Sheary will rekindle chemistry with Crosby in the top 6, but now we have Zucker so we're gonna put him on his wrong side and put Sheary in the bottom 6?

That's...haphazard. I hope Sullivan and JR are a lot more methodical than that.

Zucker has played RW in the past regularly.

The point I made about the Sheary trade was with Jake being injured. With the unexpected delay that trade looks absolutely awful.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Zucker has played RW in the past regularly.

Hornqvist has played LW regularly too. But that's not where he's comfortable or at his best.

The point I made about the Sheary trade was with Jake being injured. With the unexpected delay that trade looks absolutely awful.

I mean, the delay didn't change Sheary's viability as a top 6 winger, so I don't understand your sudden desire to shoehorn Zucker into that spot, force a 40 year old Marleau into the top 6, and (by your theory) negate/minimize Sheary's effectiveness by taking him out of a scoring line role.

 

[Gurglesons]

Hornqvist has played LW regularly too. But that's not where he's comfortable or at his best.



I mean, the delay didn't change Sheary's viability as a top 6 winger, so I don't understand your sudden desire to shoehorn Zucker into that spot, force a 40 year old Marleau into the top 6, and (by your theory) negate/minimize Sheary's effectiveness by taking him out of a scoring line role.

Marleau - Malkin - Rust allows us to build a legitimate top line with Jake - Sid - Zucker and have a very good 3rd line in Sheary - McCann - Hornqvist and we all know Sheary and Hornqvist have chemistry. We could also do what we did with McCann and Jake which everyone around here was in love with and play Jake on the RW instead of Zucker if it is that contentious.

My main point with Sheary was we had no Guentzel and the other pieces with Sid were not working so having a player that Sid was comfortable with in the top six made sense. With no Jake it made sense to have Sheary in the top six. With a Jake it may be more favorable to overload a top line especially against a team like Montreal in a short series.

 

[Gurglesons]

Also, I find it funny your argument for Rust leading our team in ESP in the cup runs is “he didn’t have a lot of competition.” LOL

Just admit you were totally off base about Rust.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Marleau - Malkin - Rust allows us to build a legitimate top line with Jake - Sid - Zucker and have a very good 3rd line in Sheary - McCann - Hornqvist and we all know Sheary and Hornqvist have chemistry. We could also do what we did with McCann and Jake which everyone around here was in love with and play Jake on the RW instead of Zucker if it is that contentious.

My main point with Sheary was we had no Guentzel and the other pieces with Sid were not working so having a player that Sid was comfortable with in the top six made sense. With no Jake it made sense to have Sheary in the top six. With a Jake it may be more favorable to overload a top line especially against a team like Montreal in a short series.

You can execute any number of top line combos when you start with Guentzel-Crosby, you don't need put Zucker on his off-wing to do that. But when you force both of our legit scoring LWs to Crosby, it necessitates Marleau moving up and making Malkin's line a lot less formidable.

That is not a net gain.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Also, I find it funny your argument for Rust leading our team in ESP in the cup runs is “he didn’t have a lot of competition.” LOL

Just admit you were totally off base about Rust.

He didn't. Rust was behind Kessel among our wingers, and that's only because Guentzel wasn't around in '16.

His competition was Hornqvist and Hagelin, and neither of those guys are exactly renowned for their ES production.

 

[Gurglesons]

You can execute any number of top line combos when you start with Guentzel-Crosby, you don't need put Zucker on his off-wing to do that. But when you force both of our legit scoring LWs to Crosby, it necessitates Marleau moving up and making Malkin's line a lot less formidable.

That is not a net gain.

Cool. I really could care less if they do it or not.

 

[The Greatest 101]

Zucker-Crosby-Sheary
Guentzel-Malkin-Rust

makes the most sense.

 

[66-30-33]

Zucker-Crosby-Sheary
Guentzel-Malkin-Rust

makes the most sense.

It's what I would go with.

 

[SEALBound]

Oh, and, btw, I think I prefer playing the first round to having a bye.

Shake off the rust. Rest won't be a factor in this format. Everyone is rested. Who gets rolling faster is what will matter. Getting a few games in before playing the Caps Flyers could be a big advantage.

This was my first thought as well. There's going to be rust...I'd rather shake out some rust against the Habs than the Flyers.

To be honest, if we are 100% healthy, I think it's gonna be sink or swim for us. It's either we come back blazin and dominate, or we completely shit the bed. I have a hard time seeing a middle where we say "well, they played well but they were bested".

Zucker-Crosby-Sheary
Guentzel-Malkin-Rust

makes the most sense.

Jake-Sid-Sheary
Zucker-Malkin-Rust

makes the most sense. I bet 500 vcash that is what they go with.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I find it really weird that people are saying "Guentzel with Malkin makes the most sense" when Guentzel and Crosby is one of the best duos in all of hockey.

 

[Khelandros]

Sid & Jake's last game - November 9th.
Malkin & Jake's last game - December 30th.

Jake also has the better numbers with Malkin this year than his 17 games with Sid this year. Geno btw, had 32pts in 20 games with Jake, Sid was at 17 in 17.

Sid was also playing with 1 arm cause he was holding in his guts. Don't forget about that.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I find it really weird that people are saying "Guentzel with Malkin makes the most sense" when Guentzel and Crosby is one of the best duos in all of hockey.

I'd say the idea behind it is more that Guentzel-Malkin-Rust was obliterating teams and Zucker-Crosby was scoring well. Zucker hasn't really played with Malkin, so they'd be going into the playoffs cold.

That, and making Malkin's line so good that the opposition has to give it their best defensive units leaves Crosby and company to feast on what's left.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I'd say the idea behind it is more that Guentzel-Malkin-Rust was obliterating teams and Zucker-Crosby was scoring well. Zucker hasn't really played with Malkin, so they'd be going into the playoffs cold.

That, and making Malkin's line so good that the opposition has to give it their best defensive units leaves Crosby and company to feast on what's left.

Guentzel-Crosby has obliterated teams more than Guentzel-Malkin has, plus Guentzel-Crosby has actually done it in the playoffs.

 

[Gurglesons]

I'd say the idea behind it is more that Guentzel-Malkin-Rust was obliterating teams and Zucker-Crosby was scoring well. Zucker hasn't really played with Malkin, so they'd be going into the playoffs cold.

That, and making Malkin's line so good that the opposition has to give it their best defensive units leaves Crosby and company to feast on what's left.

The issue there was it was largely Zucker and Sheary driving the play with Sid not putting up any production.