Salary Cap: Pittsburgh Penguins Salary Cap Thread: Where we talk about former posters

[Empoleon8771]

I wouldn't get caught up in the semantics of calling Blueger's line L3 or L4.

In my mind, you keep using BART exactly how they are using them and then build a line around McCann and use them in more offensive situations.

The issue is that there are so many minutes to go around, so you need to be conscious of that. You can't bring in someone like Jeff Carter and stick him on a 3B line and think he won't raise any problems.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

I wouldn't get caught up in the semantics of calling Blueger's line L3 or L4.

In my mind, you keep using BART exactly how they are using them and then build a line around McCann and use them in more offensive situations.

Completely agree.

The other direction I’d be interested in, provided it’s ok to break up BART, is them building an elite line around Blueger as well.

Kind of like how we hunted for a guy to pair with Kessel back in 2018. Acquiring a solid winger with the idea you’re gonna put him with Blueger on the 3rd line. Kind of a pipe dream though.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

The issue is that there are so many minutes to go around, so you need to be conscious of that. You can't bring in someone like Jeff Carter and stick him on a 3B line and think he won't raise any problems.

@pistolpete11 said to do it around McCann, which is reasonable.

 

[Empoleon8771]

@pistolpete11 said to do it around McCann, which is reasonable.

Yeah I agree with that, I just mentioned Carter because he was mentioned on the last page.

 

[Darren McCord]

again butt hurt and missing the point.

btw malkin has exactly 1 season left on his contract. He is available to be extended this coming offseason.

i think that question is pretty pertinent.

its absolutely NOTHING like dregers nonsense

I meant of play not his contract. Ben is done and looked done this past year. I dont think the questions isn't pertinent for Malkin. Dont get me wrong. I think questions what to do with Malkin is fine. However I think putting him with Ben skews the answer to questions.

Ben is done and the Steelers should let him go. His contract is insane and he proved he was done in the playoffs. He doesn't have much trade value. He was horrible in the browns games.

Malkin is not done and has a lot of value. Putting them together is a lame way to shift the answer to the question. Ask it about Malkin alone for an honest response.

So again I think its garbage skewed questions.

 

[Peat]

Completely agree.

The other direction I’d be interested in, provided it’s ok to break up BART, is them building an elite line around Blueger as well.

Kind of like how we hunted for a guy to pair with Kessel back in 2018. Acquiring a solid winger with the idea you’re gonna put him with Blueger on the 3rd line. Kind of a pipe dream though.

I don't think you can do that this season - unless it's a rental - as it'll just end up with losing the winger or Blueger.

 

[Liberty Biberty]

I don't think you can do that this season - unless it's a rental - as it'll just end up with losing the winger or Blueger.

Sam Bennett? Fills in for Zucker now, could try SB/Zucker-Malkin-Rust and SB/Zucker-Teddy-Tanev when/if? Zucker comes back. Or if you keep BART, SB-McCann is a nice 3B line thats a decent mix of speed, skill, and sandpaper.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Sam Bennett would be a perfect target if you were comfortable with McCann being your 4C. Bennett-McCann-ERod would be a 3B line that wouldn't have any issues with getting used like a 3B line. I also don't think that Bennett would be a guaranteed pick in the expansion draft, so there wouldn't be a problem of trading assets for him only to lose him in the expansion draft.

The issue is that the Flames would likely want a stupid price for him. I'd do like Legare and Sceviour for him, but I really doubt Calgary does that.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

By every metric for the last three years McCann has been a 3C. If you want to use metrics to defend certain players and then doubt them on others that’s your deal.

McCann has been used in all sorts of roles and positions over last few years, and his least effective periods have been as a 3C, most recently when he floundered down the stretch last year and into the playoffs because he had no playmaking wing.

If McCann had been successful as a 3C, he wouldn't have been moved to wing for the likes of Jankowski.

 

[Tom Hanks]

Sam Bennett would be a perfect target if you were comfortable with McCann being your 4C. Bennett-McCann-ERod would be a 3B line that wouldn't have any issues with getting used like a 3B line. I also don't think that Bennett would be a guaranteed pick in the expansion draft, so there wouldn't be a problem of trading assets for him only to lose him in the expansion draft.

The issue is that the Flames would likely want a stupid price for him. I'd do like Legare and Sceviour for him, but I really doubt Calgary does that.

I guess we wait for the Zucker diagnosis but I imagine he’s out for the season so that will change what the lineup looks like. IE McCann & Bennett on a 4th line is unlikely

 

[Peat]

Sam Bennett? Fills in for Zucker now, could try SB/Zucker-Malkin-Rust and SB/Zucker-Teddy-Tanev when/if? Zucker comes back. Or if you keep BART, SB-McCann is a nice 3B line thats a decent mix of speed, skill, and sandpaper.

It's not the lack of targets thing, it's the paying assets to hose ourselves in the expansion draft thing.

Fwiw, I don't think Bennett is the sort of solid guy you build a killer third line around - which also means maybe we can acquire him at a price that means losing him in the expansion draft would be okay - he's got the talent but not the consistency and that makes him an interesting bottom six with upside pick up and not more.

But if we get a guy who is that guy - then we get to 8 guys we don't want to lose in expansion, and I'd rather not do that.

 

[TimmyD]

Sam Bennett would be a perfect target if you were comfortable with McCann being your 4C. Bennett-McCann-ERod would be a 3B line that wouldn't have any issues with getting used like a 3B line. I also don't think that Bennett would be a guaranteed pick in the expansion draft, so there wouldn't be a problem of trading assets for him only to lose him in the expansion draft.

The issue is that the Flames would likely want a stupid price for him. I'd do like Legare and Sceviour for him, but I really doubt Calgary does that.

Doesn’t Bennett want out of Calgary because he is getting scratched/played on the 4th line when he does play? So the exact thing you mentioned a guy like Carter would be unhappy about if we brought him here. So Bennett would all of a sudden be ok with a reduced role but other guys wouldn’t be? I’m confused here

 

[Gurglesons]

McCann has been used in all sorts of roles and positions over last few years, and his least effective periods have been as a 3C, most recently when he floundered down the stretch last year and into the playoffs because he had no playmaking wing.

If McCann had been successful as a 3C, he wouldn't have been moved to wing for the likes of Jankowski.

Okay. Then don’t use analytics to defend a player. Because the analytics say McCann is a 3C. The point production says it. The eye test says it. Our coach is the one that doesn’t say it.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Okay. Then don’t use analytics to defend a player. Because the analytics say McCann is a 3C. The point production says it. The eye test says it. Our coach is the one that doesn’t say it.

Analytics have isolated on McCann's impact exclusively as a 3C, taking into account that he no longer has playmaking wings to make it work?

I've yet to see those.

I have seen what McCann looked like the last time we used him as a 3C under those circumstances, and it wasn't pretty.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Doesn’t Bennett want out of Calgary because he is getting scratched/played on the 4th line when he does play? So the exact thing you mentioned a guy like Carter would be unhappy about if we brought him here. So Bennett would all of a sudden be ok with a reduced role but other guys wouldn’t be? I’m confused here

Playing on a 3B line while getting 12 minutes a night is different than playing on the 4th line or being healthy scratched, though.

There's a massive difference between Carter going from 17 minutes a night as a top-6 forward to 12 minutes a night on a 3B line and Bennett going from 13 minutes a night as a 3rd liner to 12 minutes a night on a 3B line.

 

[Peat]

Doesn’t Bennett want out of Calgary because he is getting scratched/played on the 4th line when he does play? So the exact thing you mentioned a guy like Carter would be unhappy about if we brought him here. So Bennett would all of a sudden be ok with a reduced role but other guys wouldn’t be? I’m confused here

This is a valid point and should be considered, but leverage needs to be considered here. Carter has nothing to lose by having a bit of a sulk, or just retiring. Bennett's got a career ahead of him and once out of Calgary, he's got to take every opportunity given.

Playing on a 3B line while getting 12 minutes a night is different than playing on the 4th line or being healthy scratched, though.

There's a massive difference between Carter going from 17 minutes a night as a top-6 forward to 12 minutes a night on a 3B line and Bennett going from 13 minutes a night as a 3rd liner to 12 minutes a night on a 3B line.

12 minutes a night for our bottom line? How much are Sid and Geno getting here?

 

[Gurglesons]

Analytics have isolated on McCann's impact exclusively as a 3C, taking into account that he no longer has playmaking wings to make it work?

I've yet to see those.

I have seen what McCann looked like the last time we used him as a 3C under those circumstances, and it wasn't pretty.

 

[Empoleon8771]

12 minutes a night for our bottom line? How much are Sid and Geno getting here?

Marleau averaged 10:42 a night last year in the playoffs with the Penguins, so I don't see why 12 minutes for Bennett would be unreasonable.

If you just want to look at 5v5 numbers, both the Blueger and McCann lines were almost exactly at 10 minutes a night at 5v5 in the playoffs last year. I think the breakdown was about 15 minutes for the top-6 and 10 minutes for the bottom-6, and the other 10 minutes of a game were special teams or non-5v5 play. That was in the playoffs, where the Penguins were riding their top-6 heavily due to needing goals.

 

[JRS91]

Bennett will probably play center if we acquire him.

McCann is terrible at faceoffs and I quite honestly don't want him playing there.

 

[Peat]

Marleau averaged 10:42 a night last year in the playoffs with the Penguins, so I don't see why 12 minutes for Bennett would be unreasonable.

That includes special teams though, and I'm not sure Bennett is getting much of that. It's 9:22 without.

 

[Empoleon8771]

That includes special teams though, and I'm not sure Bennett is getting much of that. It's 9:22 without.

But that was also with the Penguins riding their top-6 because they needed goals. Over a full regular season, they won't be playing their top-6 as much as they did in the playoffs.

I think this ice time setup is completely reasonable and lines up pretty well with where the Penguins fell last year:

-16 minutes at ES with 4 PP minutes for the Crosby line (Guentzel, Crosby and Rust)
-15 minutes at ES with varying PP minutes for the Malkin line (Malkin at 4 minutes, Zucker and Kapanen probably at about 2 minutes).
-11 minutes at ES with 2 minutes of PKing time for the BART line
-11 minutes at ES with whatever additional PP/PK time is left available for the McCann line

This would result in ice time estimates of something like:

-20 minutes for Crosby, Guentzel and Rust (Rust probably gets some PK time too while losing out on a little bit of PP time)
-19 minutes for Malkin
-17 minutes for Zucker and Kapanen (Kapanen is in a similar spot to Rust as well, he may get some PK time in exchange for some PP time)
-13 minutes for ZAR, Blueger and Tanev
-About 12.5 minutes for Bennett, assuming he'd be on the 2nd PP unit
-About 12 minutes for McCann and ERod, assuming they'd both be killing penalties

 

[Peat]

But that was also with the Penguins riding their top-6 because they needed goals. Over a full regular season, they won't be playing their top-6 as much as they did in the playoffs.

I think this ice time setup is completely reasonable and lines up pretty well with where the Penguins fell last year:

-16 minutes at ES with 4 PP minutes for the Crosby line (Guentzel, Crosby and Rust)
-15 minutes at ES with varying PP minutes for the Malkin line (Malkin at 4 minutes, Zucker and Kapanen probably at about 2 minutes).
-11 minutes at ES with 2 minutes of PKing time for the BART line
-11 minutes at ES with whatever additional PP/PK time is left available for the McCann line

This would result in ice time estimates of something like:

-20 minutes for Crosby, Guentzel and Rust (Rust probably gets some PK time too while losing out on a little bit of PP time)
-19 minutes for Malkin
-17 minutes for Zucker and Kapanen (Kapanen is in a similar spot to Rust as well, he may get some PK time in exchange for some PP time)
-13 minutes for ZAR, Blueger and Tanev
-About 12.5 minutes for Bennett, assuming he'd be on the 2nd PP unit
-About 12 minutes for McCann and ERod, assuming they'd both be killing penalties

I'm looking at ice times so far this season and right now at 5v5 its 15:44 for Sid, 14:00 for Geno, 11:26 for Bloogs, and 8:30 for Jankowski. I think you're seeing more 5v5 time there than there is.

I guess they wouldn't get him unless they wanted to use him for some special teams, but I don't think there's any certainty of him being on any of the units. McCann's got a better claim for 2PP for one.

Looking at the stats, I don't really see room for a 3B line in terms of time unless we're robbing guys who right now, deserve their time.

 

[Ugene Magic]

I wouldn't get caught up in the semantics of calling Blueger's line L3 or L4.

In my mind, you keep using BART exactly how they are using them and then build a line around McCann and use them in more offensive situations.

Right now, there's no building around McCann, he's now Geno's new LW. For now at least. There's no other choice, unless they want to try O'Connor?

This team really needs to do a hex search professionally. HS...

 

[Empoleon8771]

I'm looking at ice times so far this season and right now at 5v5 its 15:44 for Sid, 14:00 for Geno, 11:26 for Bloogs, and 8:30 for Jankowski. I think you're seeing more 5v5 time there than there is.

I guess they wouldn't get him unless they wanted to use him for some special teams, but I don't think there's any certainty of him being on any of the units. McCann's got a better claim for 2PP for one.

Looking at the stats, I don't really see room for a 3B line in terms of time unless we're robbing guys who right now, deserve their time.

I was laying out ES ice time, not 5v5 ice time. That ES ice time includes 4v4 and 3v3 as well.

Last year, the Penguins averaged 52 minutes of ES play per game, and the numbers I listed added up to 53 minutes at ES. So maybe shave half a minute off of both bottom-6 lines and you're at that number.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Shouldn't be surprised, Hextall knows Freidman from his time in Philly. 25 year old right shooting D with a little bit of NHL experience:

Mark Friedman Hockey Stats and Profile at hockeydb.com

Kinda an odd decision to claim him when you already have Letang, Marino, Ceci and Ruhwedel on RD.