Salary Cap: Pittsburgh Penguins Salary Cap Thread: Where Gods are born & Old Ones Go To Valhalla..

[Pens x]

Hornqvist had massively declined from what he was during the cup runs, was a huge problem with the lack of depth scoring in the last 3 years and didn't fit the structure of the team or the 3rd line at all.

Moving him was 100% the right decision. Matheson is a project, but I'd rather have a younger project defenseman who may bust but could bring a huge need to the team over an older winger who didn't fit and was only going to get worse.

People act like Matheson a young up and coming player. He’s turning 27 next month, soooo.

 

[The Old Master]

. Coaching did have a significant impact imo and not just because JJ was overplayed....

yeah, it wasn't because he was over played it's because he was played over better and more deserving players and that has a major impact on the whole team. …if there is a good reason [like discipline] is one thing but just because you don't like the guy. it's not going to work.

 

[Peat]

I would argue that a 4.9 mil defenseman is a lot easier to move than a 5.2 mil winger especially considering their age.

Maybe not with that term though. That term is ugly.

On the plus side, he's big and quick, which NHL GMs go a bit nuts for. If he can have a decent year here, maybe we can move him fairly painlessly.

 

[Tom Hanks]

I mean, we have to give Matheson more than two games before we judge the trade.

 

[PensandCaps]

I would argue that a 4.9 mil defenseman is a lot easier to move than a 5.2 mil winger especially considering their age.

Tottally disagree because you're leaving the term length out.

The Penguins can wait out 2 years of Hornqvist, while still being a contributing player.

and then even in the final year you could move Hornqvist at 50% if you want


much harder to wait out 6 years of a healthy scratch / #6 Dman at 5mil. Probably way harder to move, UNLESS JR gets fired and then hired by another team.

 

[The Old Master]

People act like Matheson a young up and coming player. He’s turning 27 next month, soooo.

we've turned around players before. you never stop learning.

 

[Big McLargehuge]

3. If you get a dog expecting it to be a cat, that's on you. If you get a cat expecting it to be a dog, that's on you. If your measurement of Matheson is centered around his defensive play, you're going to be upset, and that's more on you than him. If you haven't figured out what kind of player he is yet, it's on you. No offense.

None taken, I'm not the GM

Matheson wouldn't be on any team I'd be put together, though. The old goalie in me has very little tolerance of purely OFDs, before we even enter the contract discussion. That also means I never would have even glanced at Justin Schultz in 2016, fwiw, especially not at the deadline.

Let's just say I was not known for my restraint about Ryan Whitney back in the day.

 

[Gurglesons]

Tottally disagree because you're leaving the term length out.

The Penguins can wait out 2 years of Hornqvist, while still being a contributing player.

and then even in the final year you could move Hornqvist at 50% if you want


much harder to wait out 6 years of a healthy scratch / #6 Dman at 5mil. Probably way harder to move, UNLESS JR gets fired and then hired by another team.

We will see. People always say contracts are immovable. Zaitsev got moved, Matheson got moved, Gudbranson x 2. etc etc.

The cost for all of them was a lesser contract or similarly bad contract.

I’d also point to the fact that in his short time here Matheson’s advanced stats were very good.

 

[PensandCaps]

We will see. People always say contracts are immovable. Zaitsev got moved, Matheson got moved, Gudbranson x 2. etc etc.

Zaitsev has that Size and Physicality that GMs love. Guds was at the end of his deal, and again he has "intangibles"

I'm sure that's why Florida wanted Hornqvist too. GMs love that physical stuff. If Hornqvist didn't have a NTC, I'm sure he Would've been wanted by a ton of GMs

 

[Kristopher Letang]

We will see. People always say contracts are immovable. Zaitsev got moved, Matheson got moved, Gudbranson x 2. etc etc.

But we had trouble moving JJ’s 3.25M contract. It sucks having to pay assets to move contracts that you know stinks from the beginning

 

[Gurglesons]

Zaitsev has that Size and Physicality that GMs love. Guds was at the end of his deal, and again he has "intangibles"

I'm sure that's why Florida wanted Hornqvist too. GMs love that physical stuff. If Hornqvist didn't have a NTC, I'm sure he Would've been wanted by a ton of GMs

Matheson has size and skates like the wind.

 

[Gurglesons]

But we had trouble moving JJ’s 3.25M contract. It sucks having to pay assets to move contracts that you know stinks from the beginning.

Jack Johnson has no attractive aspects to his game and is old.

 

[Kristopher Letang]

Jack Johnson has no attractive aspects to his game and is old.

I bet you it’s gonna take a 1st to move Matheson.

 

[dogthateats]

 

[Peat]

We will see. People always say contracts are immovable. Zaitsev got moved, Matheson got moved, Gudbranson x 2. etc etc.

The cost for all of them was a lesser contract or similarly bad contract.

I’d also point to the fact that in his short time here Matheson’s advanced stats were very good.

You know that's not all that reassuring right

 

[Shady Machine]

Best we can hope for with Matheson is that he has a nice season and gets picked up in expansion.

 

[Gurglesons]

You know that's not all that reassuring right

No, but I'd also argue that saying his contract is unmovable is simply wrong.

 

[Peat]

Idle question on the back of Shady's post - if you could choose one scenario at the end of the season for Matheson from the following, which would it be?

Nice season, lost in expansion
Great season, becomes Marino's partner, is kept

Or to put it another way - if Matheson takes off here, do people trust him to continue this, or would they be worried about it complicating dumping him at the next possible convenience?

 

[Gurglesons]

@Soggy Biscuit

 

[Gurglesons]

Idle question on the back of Shady's post - if you could choose one scenario at the end of the season for Matheson from the following, which would it be?

Nice season, lost in expansion
Great season, becomes Marino's partner, is kept

Or to put it another way - if Matheson takes off here, do people trust him to continue this, or would they be worried about it complicating dumping him at the next possible convenience?

As I've said multiple times. Lost in expansion.

But he's rocking an xGF% of nearly 60% while being awful in one of those games. I'm real curious to see how his stats look in a bottom pairing role. Obviously as @SouthGeorge would so graciously point out, xGF% doesn't cover extremely dumb decisions though..

 

[StutzlesTapeJob]

I have a hard time saying we got notably better or worse vs last year. One thing that’s interesting is that we do seem to have more depth options. That is made even more interesting by the lack of pre-season and condensed reg season.

Gut read is:
3rd line looks notably better, and every time we actually do well when it counts, we have a productive 3rd line.

really like Zucker but it’s not translating into success for Geno.

If between Kaps and Zucker we can end up with a dangerous top 6, and the 3rd line remains quality....maybe this year will be better than I expected.

but it really is a challenge to get it all squared away in a shortened season. Good luck Sully.

 

[Big McLargehuge]

Matheson has size and skates like the wind.

*rummages through dumpster full of complaints I had about Ryan Whitney*

Ah, yes.

"Size doesn't mean anything if you don't use it."

He is a good skater, though, and if there is a path to decency for Matheson it's because of that. I just balk at needing to teach a 27 year-old defenseman with 6 years remaining how to play defense.

 

[T1K]

So we knew going into the season that Matheson would be a project. Now, we’re finished with the evaluation after a limited training camp and 3 games? That doesn’t make a lot of sense to me.

 

[Gurglesons]

*rummages through dumpster full of complaints I had about Ryan Whitney*

Ah, yes.

"Size doesn't mean anything if you don't use it."

He is a good skater, though, and if there is a path to decency for Matheson it's because of that. I just balk at needing to teach a 27 year-old defenseman with 6 years remaining how to play defense.

I think that is the mistake. We shouldn't be trying to teach Matheson how to play defense. We need to just embrace what he does well and slot him in a role where the defensive miscues are not killing us.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Idle question on the back of Shady's post - if you could choose one scenario at the end of the season for Matheson from the following, which would it be?

Nice season, lost in expansion
Great season, becomes Marino's partner, is kept

Or to put it another way - if Matheson takes off here, do people trust him to continue this, or would they be worried about it complicating dumping him at the next possible convenience?

Depends on Pettersson and what their plans are with the defense going forward.

I was trying to write out some if statements to make my opinion, but it's just very complicated and depends on a lot of factors. Let's say that Pettersson is amazing this year (like he has been so far) and Matheson is also amazing, what you do with Matheson depends on what your plans are with Letang IMO.

Here's the simplest way I can say it:

1. If Matheson and Pettersson are great and you're not committed to Letang, keep Matheson and trade Letang
2. If Matheson and Pettersson are great and you're going to re-sign Letang, trade whichever of Matheson or Pettersson brings back a higher return
3. If Matheson isn't good enough where you think he can be a stable 2nd pair D for the duration of his contract, either trade Matheson or lose him in expansion