Salary Cap: Pittsburgh Penguins Salary Cap Thread - Please go full Redden on JJ's...

[Scandale du Jour]

Continue.

Last few posts

I just don't want JR to tie up $5mil on another over the hill-er.

I mean, I GUESS they could straight up trade him even if doing well in standings.

I just..man..if Pens make playoffs they'll likely need bodies...

I was using Honka as an example of a cheap replacement, but if we're trusting GP as a measure of how good a defenceman is then Jack Johnson was perfectly fine last season. I would be much more interested in trying to find a new Pettersson than ending up with an albatross contract for a defenceman who has been straight up bad the past 2 seasons.

You're just assuming that Schultz has been a top 4 calibre defenceman the past two seasons (which is false) and that he will continue to be so once extended (which is very dubious) and therefore it's inconceivable that we could replace him. We have been playing without a quality 2nd pairing RD for the past two seasons, this is not a hypothetical.

Our options are to either double down on his mediocrity in the hopes that he reverts back to his anomaly career season or get creative and find an undervalued guy like Pettersson to fill that role. One option puts us in a really tough spot from a cap perspective and one gives us flexibility.

You trade players. Bjugstad out, Gudbranson out, likely Rust out and maybe one of the RFAs gets traded instead of signed. Dear god, JJ out but I doubt it. Fill in the blanks with the remaining RFAs and WBS. No ****ing free agency overpays for JR. Maybe Hornqvist and Tanev slot up higher.

Guentzel-Crosby-X
Galchenyuk-Malkin-X
X-Blueger-Hornqvist
X-Lafferty-Tanev

Dumoulin-Letang
Pettersson-Schultz
X-Marino

Murray
Cheap back up

They’ve got almost 15M tied up in Johnson, Gudbranson, Bjugstad and Rust. Really, we just need to see how the season goes. With Schultz I think his health will play into it a lot.

Resigning Schultz would already be a free agency overpay though.

Yes. And he was still scoring nearly twice as much as Gudbranson while functioning as a steadying influence for his partner for years, unlike Guds, who has played 20 good games while being babysat by another defenseman.

That's why one has value at 4 mil and the other doesn't. That's why allocating 4 mil to a bottom pair defenseman who hasn't been good at either end rather than 6 mil to a defenseman who's been at least as good at one end and far, far better at the other would be a mistake.

Easier said than done. In any such trades, we'd probably have to bring salary back unless teams would be interested in taking them as cap dumps, in which case the returns would be greatly diminished and would hurt us.

We can just trade out of anything. That’s why JJ any here anymore.

Click to read more...

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

JJ is going to cost us Rust, and as much as I love Rust, it's worth it. That's how absolutely atrocious the guy is, and the level of urgency we should be exhibiting in trying to move him.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

JJ is going to cost us Rust, and as much as I love Rust, it's worth it. That's how absolutely atrocious the guy is, and the level of urgency we should be exhibiting in trying to move him.

You bury him in the minors before you even entertain trading Rust to get rid of him.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

You bury him in the minors before you even entertain trading Rust to get rid of him.

How much cap does that even save, though? And does anyone see this team burying him for 4 more years?

 

[Riptide]

@JackFr "We have been playing without a quality 2nd pairing RD for the past two seasons, this is not a hypothetical. "

And we would still be playing without one if Honka was one of our RDs. My point with his GPs was simply illustrating that he's not nearly the D some think. If he cant even get into games in Dallas, how the hell do you think he would be better than Schultz today?

Schultz might not be all that but hes a lot better than what we've seen out of Honka over the past few seasons.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

Easier said than done. In any such trades, we'd probably have to bring salary back unless teams would be interested in taking them as cap dumps, in which case the returns would be greatly diminished and would hurt us.

It is but other than JJ and Gudbranson if he shits the bed, it’s moving solid players. The returns would probably suck, though.

Right now it’s trying to predict a lot of unknowns.

 

[Giant Yankee Pens]

Send down JJ, DeSmith, Ruh leaves you with a 23 man roster at 443,000 under the cap.

Keep DeSmith and send down Jarry and AJ for a 22 man roster at 743,000 under.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

How much cap does that even save, though? And does anyone see this team burying him for 4 more years?

1.075 mil saved IIRC. Bury him for a year, try to trade him as he’ll have less term next summer.

If no takers, buy out or bury him for one more year then pay Seattle to take him whether in the expansion draft or by trade.

 

[Riptide]

Send down JJ, DeSmith, Ruh leaves you with a 23 man roster at 443,000 under the cap.

Keep DeSmith and send down Jarry and AJ for a 22 man roster at 743,000 under.

CDS wouldn't clear waivers. Hes too good for someone not to claim him.

 

[chethejet]

Gudbranson is a real asset now and his off season training was to add quickness and better first stride skating. He will be the biggest surprise on the Pens and RD is in better shape now. Yes do I think Rust and JJ in a package deal can be done? Yes if lafferty can be that 4th line guy with Simon/Reese and TB. But I am still hesitant to trade Rust as he can be a great fit on Malkins line.

 

[Pancakes]

It is but other than JJ and Gudbranson if he ****s the bed, it’s moving solid players. The returns would probably suck, though.

Right now it’s trying to predict a lot of unknowns.

JR is taking the right approach I think by letting this all play out. As much as I want JJ gone yesterday, it's not terrible to start the season and see how all the new pieces fit, and how guys like Rust play. Maybe Rust lights it up big time this year and JR decides to trade someone else instead. Or maybe gets more for Rust when he does move him.

Or maybe Galchenyuk is a big flop, or McCann, or whoever. We don't know how all this plays out, so giving the roster time to breathe before making any cap moves is a fine approach to me if that's how Jr is thinking.

 

[Peat]

JJ is going to cost us Rust, and as much as I love Rust, it's worth it. That's how absolutely atrocious the guy is, and the level of urgency we should be exhibiting in trying to move him.

I don't think it's going to cost Rust because he's not valuable enough and costs too much. Also, taking JJ is a win later move, and Rust is win now.

I think teams will be asking for Addison or whichever prospect has more hype at the time. Maybe that plus.

Unless we can gull a team.

 

[Giant Yankee Pens]

CDS wouldn't clear waivers. Hes too good for someone not to claim him.

Maybe... it is the risk you run in doing so... Jarry may not make it through either, but he probably will (less of a risk but still)... who is committing 2 years 3 mill to a backup though? Most teams already have their two goalies.

Not saying I'd take Jarry over CDS (I wouldnt), but there is a good chance either could clear imo.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

How much cap does that even save, though? And does anyone see this team burying him for 4 more years?

Montreal are ready to do it with Alzner. We should be too if needed. But start with this year and re-assess later.

You do not trade Rust to create space THIS YEAR! That would be bad asset management.

 

[Pancakes]

I don't think it's going to cost Rust because he's not valuable enough and costs too much. Also, taking JJ is a win later move, and Rust is win now.

I think teams will be asking for Addison or whichever prospect has more hype at the time. Maybe that plus.

Unless we can gull a team.

I really do not want to move Addison. He's the only prospect like that we have in our system. POJ is a good prospect, but he's not the PP QB type that Addison is. He's more like a Pettersson or Dumoulin type prospect.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Understand he’s more expensive but imo due to his term CDS has value due to expansion draft. Thats why guys like him and Stalock got 3 year deals.

I think that could give him some trade value or be part of why they opt to stick with him over Jarry.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

JR is taking the right approach I think by letting this all play out. As much as I want JJ gone yesterday, it's not terrible to start the season and see how all the new pieces fit, and how guys like Rust play. Maybe Rust lights it up big time this year and JR decides to trade someone else instead. Or maybe gets more for Rust when he does move him.

Or maybe Galchenyuk is a big flop, or McCann, or whoever. We don't know how all this plays out, so giving the roster time to breathe before making any cap moves is a fine approach to me if that's how Jr is thinking.

Yeah, and two of the players looking for new deals have injury histories. Who’s to say that doesn’t factor in heavily. It’s possible Schultz is great for 50 games but they can’t stomach investing in him because of his health. It could burn them or work out well. I do think moving JJ ASAP is the way to go, however. He’s looking worse than ever. JR was rewarded for patience with Scuderi but JJ is a different beast.

Maybe a GM gets concussed and trades for JJ?!

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Montreal are ready to do it with Alzner. We should be too if needed. But start with this year and re-assess later.

You do not trade Rust to create space THIS YEAR! That would be bad asset management.

Bad asset management is signing JJ to a 5 year deal, or Tanev to a 6 year deal. We're in the bad asset management deep end. Also, what the Habs are ready to do is not any concern of mine. This team doesn't have the killer instinct to bury JJ in the minors full time. I just don't see it happening at all.

We need to deal him to remove a horrendous player and clear cap, and nobody's going to take him without us paying them. Rust is great, but he's a 4th liner on this team. I'm super skeptical of Hornqvist's ability to stay healthy with the amount of punishment he takes on a shift-by-shift basis, as well as his value to us if he's not getting top PP time or time in the top-6--but he's got a full NTC.

Rust is the only guy who fits in that value + expendable sweet spot. Nobody's going to take JJ after a year of being Redden-ed--certainly not without a big add in, which is probably Rust anyway.

 

[Riptide]

I don't think it's going to cost Rust because he's not valuable enough and costs too much. Also, taking JJ is a win later move, and Rust is win now.

I think teams will be asking for Addison or whichever prospect has more hype at the time. Maybe that plus.

Unless we can gull a team.

When was the last time the price for a cap dump was a highly though of young PM RD? Addison might be the ask, but odds are that wont be the cost.

 

[Riptide]

Maybe... it is the risk you run in doing so... Jarry may not make it through either, but he probably will (less of a risk but still)... who is committing 2 years 3 mill to a backup though? Most teams already have their two goalies.

Not saying I'd take Jarry over CDS (I wouldnt), but there is a good chance either could clear imo.

Jarry has a much better chance of getting through then CDS does.

 

[Empoleon8771]

When was the last time the price for a cap dump was a highly though of young PM RD? Addison might be the ask, but odds are that wont be the cost.

You can easily argue that a 1st to move Marleau and Terevainen to move Bickell are equal to the bolded.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I genuinely do not think this team can take the next step toward legitimately contending for Cups again with a JJ-Gudbranson pairing. Sheltered or not, they will get exploited, and JJ will cost us goals against while neutering the forwards he's out with. /shrug It's as urgent a matter as any facing this team, imo.

I also don't think there's a snowflake's chance in Hell he gets buried in the minors by this organization. They'll let him plod around the ice and continue f***ing things up way before they commit to essentially ending the guy's career.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I genuinely do not think this team can take the next step toward legitimately contending for Cups again with a JJ-Gudbranson pairing. Sheltered or not, they will get exploited, and JJ will cost us goals against while neutering the forwards he's out with. /shrug It's as urgent a matter as any facing this team, imo.

I also don't think there's a snowflake's chance in Hell he gets buried in the minors by this organization. They'll let him plod around the ice and continue ****ing things up way before they commit to essentially ending the guy's career.

Their 3rd pair today was Riikola-Gudbranson, and I flat out refuse to believe that they'll play Johnson and Gudbranson together with how bad of a fit they are.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Their 3rd pair today was Riikola-Gudbranson, and I flat out refuse to believe that they'll play Johnson and Gudbranson together with how bad of a fit they are.

We'll see. I hope you're right, and I'd be more than fine with a Riikola-Gudbranson bottom pairing, but I don't have that much faith. I think JJ will find his way into the lineup, if for no other reason than as a way to try and justify his contract.

 

[Riptide]

You can easily argue that a 1st to move Marleau and Terevainen to move Bickell are equal to the bolded.

Bickell sure, but not Marleau. He had a full NTC/NMC and was demanding to be traded and bought out. The price for that was always going to be steep.

Am on my phone so cant really check, but I thought Bickell was a situation where CHI had to move money, not would 'like' to move money, which is where we're currently at.