Salary Cap: Pittsburgh Penguins Salary Cap Thread - Pets is signed, so now back to JJ

[Shady Machine]

So his QO will be at 10m? He is RFA at the end of those three years, right?

if CapFriendly is correct, it's $9MM in year 3, but that's still a damn good deal for Tampa. That team needs to deliver on all that good faith the players have given them or at some point it has to bite them in the ass, right?

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Aside from Letang, Dumoulin and I am hoping MP... I don't know if I'd get too attached to ANYONE on this defense. I like Schultz. I don't 6-7M (on a "deal") like Schultz and would drop him like a bad habit so long as there are options that are even close by the end of next season. This roster needs to start getting a little more efficient and rely more on ELCs and bargain contracts as opposed to just paying whoever whatever for however long with ample NTCs sprinkled in along the way.

There seem to suddenly be some fascinating younger players coming on. The cap is in neutral. This season should tell a lot.

 

[DesertPenguin]

Replacing Schultz with Marino is just as risky. Unless Marino blows up and puts up Schultz-esque numbers on the big club this year.

Marino still being on the squad means they're giving him a look. My guess is he's the first callup when and if someone gets hurt and we see what we have with him for next season, when the real cap hell begins.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

What if the Pens win the cup again this year?
Hornqvist - Bjugstad - Rust is the third line

Pettersson - Gudbranson
Johnson - Schultz

This is the bottom pairs on D? Would you still say they didn't try hard enough? Who is to say that moving Pettersson - Gudbranson onto Geno's line won't solve the issues they had last year when it was Johnson - XXX? And maybe the possession monster that is Hornqvist -Bjugstad - XXX makes up for the defensive liability of Johnson - XXX? Things can work out with the pieces the Pens have, it's all about using the pieces the right way.

If we win the Cup with that defense I'll eat JJ's jockstrap.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

You're vastly over estimating Rust's impact.

People say this a lot. I've been thinking this is when he gets traded and we either find out he isn't as good as we thought or he does very well elsewhere and people play that "oh well, look at who he is playing with" without realizing the irony in who he was with here.

I, at this point, just want to see him moved with JJ and see what Rust is capable of. I really want him to be on the Wings (Rust) just to be with other speed demons and really see what he can do on a team like that and also to inflict the pain of JJ to Yzy.

Something like...

Pens 2nd + Rust + Johnson for Daley + Svechnikov.

 

[Riptide]

So his QO will be at 10m? He is RFA at the end of those three years, right?

9m. But yes and yes.

5.25m, 6m, 9m. 7.75m paid out in bonuses the first 2 seasons.

 

[Peat]

if CapFriendly is correct, it's $9MM in year 3, but that's still a damn good deal for Tampa. That team needs to deliver on all that good faith the players have given them or at some point it has to bite them in the ass, right?

Most things come back to bite teams in the arse sooner or later, particularly if they don't win, so I figure they're no worse than anyone else out there.

And if you compare it to Timo Meier's contract with the Sharks, which is at a similar number and has a similarly inflated final year, I think it grades out very well indeed.

Aside from Letang, Dumoulin and I am hoping MP... I don't know if I'd get too attached to ANYONE on this defense.

This is god's ain truth.


Re Schultz - the thing I'm most reluctant to lose about him is the ridiculous spike we usually get for Geno and Schultz on the ice together. I don't think it's coincidence that Geno's worst season coincided with losing Schultz. Geno needs that sort of support. I'm not saying it has to be Schultz, but if Schultz continues to provide it then given dman prices, I'd be reluctant to part with that.

But that remains to be seen.

 

[Peat]

What comments from JR was the article referring to? I don’t have access...

I saw someone else give a precis on this but a full rundown -

Hornqvist: Wants to prove management wrong, knows the hunger is there, says change was needed, says that chemistry is playing with the same linemates for a while and trust

Schultz: Says they're close off the ice, thought they were hungry last year, just not every game, last year feels like they didn't even make the playoffs

McCann: Thinks it makes you think about the way you play and that they all took it to heart

Bjugstad: People got along, leadership was unbelievable, it just didn't click

Murray: Team is always trying to come together as a group and they've done a good job of that in the past

Rust: Takes it personally, makes him work harder and pay more attention to the details, thinks people took ownership of their games over the summer, doesn't know about chemistry but hunger definitely slipped

Dumo: Already covered.

Guentzel: Stings, has everyone motivated, been a good camp

Johnson: Reminder that hunger is the only way to get anywhere in this league, says chemistry is about trusting the next game to do their share, that it's a powerful thing when everyone buys in

Sid: Doesn't know about chemistry and hunger, thinks we should be happy with a 100 points but not with the playoffs, chemistry's a general term but part of it's building an identity and with all the new guys coming in, it didn't build quick enough


So.

Nobody directly criticised Rutherford. Not really a surprise given they're paid to be uncontroversial and not argue with their boss in public.

You could perhaps take Sid and Horny commenting on how stability plays a part in chemistry, and Sid and Rust talking about not knowing if chemistry was the issue as an oblique criticism of Rutherford (and Sully a bit too) if one so wishes.

There's a lot of tacit admissions that things weren't quite right in the locker room - Sid talking about the identity not coming quick enough, Muray saying they've done a good job of coming together in the past but not specifically saying this past season, Horny and JJ talking about trust, Schultz talking about inconsistent hunger. There's also a few outright unambiguous "Rutherford was right comments", mainly Rust talking about a lack of hunger and Dumo letting lose. I think that's one of the strongest and most open criticisms of the team from a player I've seen as a Pens fan and I'm curious to see where it goes. We need more leaders and Dumo's a respected gut; if thsi is him stepping up, right on.

I think if you put all the comments together, you get a picture of a room where a few too many people were too busy griping about things rather than seeking to fix things, and that this maybe got to the whole room.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

Johnson: Reminder that hunger is the only way to get anywhere in this league, says chemistry is about trusting the next game to do their share, that it's a powerful thing when everyone buys in

I’m sorry but there’s a certain irony to this and it’s basically him saying he shouldn’t be playing. Anyway, the players had problems but I think the coaching staff and front office got off lightly.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I’m sorry but there’s a certain irony to this and it’s basically him saying he shouldn’t be playing. Anyway, the players had problems but I think the coaching staff and front office got off lightly.

Completely agree. I've been saying it all Summer but the players aren't the only ones making millions that failed last year. One group took all the hits in the press and the other didn't.

 

[Ryder71]

Completely agree. I've been saying it all Summer but the players aren't the only ones making millions that failed last year. One group took all the hits in the press and the other didn't.

And to that point on that front losing Tocchet and replacing him with Recchi was (IMO anyhow) a significant downgrade.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

And to that point on that front losing Tocchet and replacing him with Recchi was (IMO anyhow) a significant downgrade.

I sometimes roll my eyes a little bit at attributing too much to assistants and the like, especially since it's often not even 100% clear what their exact function even is.

But I'm pretty much completely with you on this one. Recchi seems like he's just kind of going through the motions so he can hang out in a hockey environment. You see press blurbs and even entire articles over the years on guys like Tocchet, Gonchar and even Martin. But I hear hardly a word about Recchi or what it is he is responsible for on the day to day. Powerplay and forwards, I think?

In any case I doubt there was much they could do about losing Tocchet. He wanted another shot behind the bench as the HC. I agree that he was an underrated element here, though. And that's coming from a guy who wasn't so sure, at first.

 

[Ryder71]

I sometimes roll my eyes a little bit at attributing too much to assistants and the like, especially since it's often not even 100% clear what their exact function even is.

But I'm pretty much completely with you on this one. Recchi seems like he's just kind of going through the motions so he can hang out in a hockey environment. You see press blurbs and even entire articles over the years on guys like Tocchet, Gonchar and even Martin. But I hear hardly a word about Recchi or what it is he is responsible for on the day to day. Powerplay and forwards, I think?

In any case I doubt there was much they could do about losing Tocchet. He wanted another shot behind the bench as the HC. I agree that he was an underrated element here, though. And that's coming from a guy who wasn't so sure, at first.

I really really do NOT want to get into the weeds on this. But I'll just say that Recchi is more likely to resonate with young players/prospects than the veterans. I'd feel better if he went down to W-B. He can take JJ with him.

 

[WayneSid9987]

As soon as they hired Velluci i would've made him assistant and offered Recchi the HC'ing job in Wilkes.

 

[66-30-33]

If Yotes suck this season I bet Tocchet is gone, I would take him back in a heartbeat. Wonder if he would come back?

 

[madinsomniac]

If Yotes suck this season I bet Tocchet is gone, I would take him back in a heartbeat. Wonder if he would come back?

sure if he could bring his boy Kessel with him lol

 

[Corvidae]

As soon as they hired Velluci i would've made him assistant and offered Recchi the HC'ing job in Wilkes.

Woah, what did Wilkes-Barre every do to you?

 

[SHOOTANDSCORE]

More Pittsburgh related guys on waivers. Clendening, Gibbons, Dea, Bartkowski

Bart's stock has really dropped.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

More Pittsburgh related guys on waivers. Clendening, Gibbons, Dea, Bartkowski

Bart's stock has really dropped.

I've always had a soft spot for Dea. Decent player.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I saw someone else give a precis on this but a full rundown -

Hornqvist: Wants to prove management wrong, knows the hunger is there, says change was needed, says that chemistry is playing with the same linemates for a while and trust

Schultz: Says they're close off the ice, thought they were hungry last year, just not every game, last year feels like they didn't even make the playoffs

McCann: Thinks it makes you think about the way you play and that they all took it to heart

Bjugstad: People got along, leadership was unbelievable, it just didn't click

Murray: Team is always trying to come together as a group and they've done a good job of that in the past

Rust: Takes it personally, makes him work harder and pay more attention to the details, thinks people took ownership of their games over the summer, doesn't know about chemistry but hunger definitely slipped

Dumo: Already covered.

Guentzel: Stings, has everyone motivated, been a good camp

Johnson: Reminder that hunger is the only way to get anywhere in this league, says chemistry is about trusting the next game to do their share, that it's a powerful thing when everyone buys in

Sid: Doesn't know about chemistry and hunger, thinks we should be happy with a 100 points but not with the playoffs, chemistry's a general term but part of it's building an identity and with all the new guys coming in, it didn't build quick enough


So.

Nobody directly criticised Rutherford. Not really a surprise given they're paid to be uncontroversial and not argue with their boss in public.

You could perhaps take Sid and Horny commenting on how stability plays a part in chemistry, and Sid and Rust talking about not knowing if chemistry was the issue as an oblique criticism of Rutherford (and Sully a bit too) if one so wishes.

There's a lot of tacit admissions that things weren't quite right in the locker room - Sid talking about the identity not coming quick enough, Muray saying they've done a good job of coming together in the past but not specifically saying this past season, Horny and JJ talking about trust, Schultz talking about inconsistent hunger. There's also a few outright unambiguous "Rutherford was right comments", mainly Rust talking about a lack of hunger and Dumo letting lose. I think that's one of the strongest and most open criticisms of the team from a player I've seen as a Pens fan and I'm curious to see where it goes. We need more leaders and Dumo's a respected gut; if thsi is him stepping up, right on.

I think if you put all the comments together, you get a picture of a room where a few too many people were too busy griping about things rather than seeking to fix things, and that this maybe got to the whole room.

You put a lot of weight on Rutherford for chemistry, when you look at the roster, before the changes JR made, there were chemistry issues galore with a core that was largely together for a few years and it was the coaching staff that failed that. Constant shuffling of lines, abandoning the attempt at Bowman-ism with the pairs and rotating the 3rd linemate, putting the wrong mix together and praying it worked and keeping the right mix apart because well, who the f*** knows.

JR should have made more changes in that off season, but at that point he was just hoping that season was a one off, but here we had 2 seasons where there were constant issues with the line-up and not because the GM tinkered the shit out of it, but because he kept a back 2 back winning team together for the most part and allowed some others that were making there way in, to stay in.

JR seems to be deathly afraid of criticizing his entire coaching staff - which he should be questioning the shit out of to be honest because the head coach and his assistants largely failed two years in a row with fixing and adapting to the current state of the NHL which they helped make a trend.

Maybe the issue is Tocchet was the strong voice, which by his interviews, it seems like it was and Sully was just more passive aggressive with his stuff and needed someone to help filter his voice through to the guys, Recchi seems largely useless af, Martin might be being tuned out and Sarge might not be working with that philosophy which would make sense to me, Sarge is a puck mover that thinks the game that way, Martin is a trap-star type of dude, minimize chances and collapse.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Completely agree. I've been saying it all Summer but the players aren't the only ones making millions that failed last year. One group took all the hits in the press and the other didn't.

It's because like a lot of fans here, Sullivan and his cohorts have earned some blind faith for 2 cups in a row, but the last 2yrs are some how excused and solely blamed on JR when the blame game is spread to both parties at equal amounts.

I am not putting the blame entirely on Sullivan, but when you're the leader of the coaches, you have to feel the brunt of the issues. Recchi is just not a good fit, they talk about fit for players and who fits etc, but they can't even see who the fit is for their coaching staff? Pick ONE defense coach already, ONE.

Instead, he got a 4yr extension and some how people think that means you get a vote of confidence. So if the team fails again and JJ is gone during most of the season, who are we blaming still? JR?

 

[SHOOTANDSCORE]

Doubt it. Maybe in season, but not now.

If he does, it'll be the Caps doing it out of spite.

I saw someone else give a precis on this but a full rundown -

Hornqvist: Wants to prove management wrong, knows the hunger is there, says change was needed, says that chemistry is playing with the same linemates for a while and trust

Schultz: Says they're close off the ice, thought they were hungry last year, just not every game, last year feels like they didn't even make the playoffs

McCann: Thinks it makes you think about the way you play and that they all took it to heart

Bjugstad: People got along, leadership was unbelievable, it just didn't click

Murray: Team is always trying to come together as a group and they've done a good job of that in the past

Rust: Takes it personally, makes him work harder and pay more attention to the details, thinks people took ownership of their games over the summer, doesn't know about chemistry but hunger definitely slipped

Dumo: Already covered.

Guentzel: Stings, has everyone motivated, been a good camp

Johnson: Reminder that hunger is the only way to get anywhere in this league, says chemistry is about trusting the next game to do their share, that it's a powerful thing when everyone buys in

Sid: Doesn't know about chemistry and hunger, thinks we should be happy with a 100 points but not with the playoffs, chemistry's a general term but part of it's building an identity and with all the new guys coming in, it didn't build quick enough


So.

Nobody directly criticised Rutherford. Not really a surprise given they're paid to be uncontroversial and not argue with their boss in public.

You could perhaps take Sid and Horny commenting on how stability plays a part in chemistry, and Sid and Rust talking about not knowing if chemistry was the issue as an oblique criticism of Rutherford (and Sully a bit too) if one so wishes.

There's a lot of tacit admissions that things weren't quite right in the locker room - Sid talking about the identity not coming quick enough, Muray saying they've done a good job of coming together in the past but not specifically saying this past season, Horny and JJ talking about trust, Schultz talking about inconsistent hunger. There's also a few outright unambiguous "Rutherford was right comments", mainly Rust talking about a lack of hunger and Dumo letting lose. I think that's one of the strongest and most open criticisms of the team from a player I've seen as a Pens fan and I'm curious to see where it goes. We need more leaders and Dumo's a respected gut; if thsi is him stepping up, right on.

I think if you put all the comments together, you get a picture of a room where a few too many people were too busy griping about things rather than seeking to fix things, and that this maybe got to the whole room.

Very interesting. Just from watching last year, I suspected that there was an issue with trusting each other and with buy in. We can only hope that this stuff being talked about freely means that they've legitimately accepted their faults are are correcting them.

Also, Sully talked about focusing on the details this season and now so has Rusty. Fingers crossed.

 

[Gurglesons]

If he does, it'll be the Caps doing it out of spite.
Very interesting. Just from watching last year, I suspected that there was an issue with trusting each other and with buy in. We can only hope that this stuff being talked about freely means that they've legitimately accepted their faults are are correcting them.

Also, Sully talked about focusing on the details this season and now so has Rusty. Fingers crossed.

Speaking of the Caps, I was listening to the Hockey News Podcast on the commute and they talked them up so much and then said we were Edmonton East.

I mean, I can understand preferring the Caps up front given the 3C of Eller and Wilson and Vrana + Ovie and Oshie, but why are people assuming that D is going to be good?

Replacing Niskanen with Gudas and running a top four of Jensen Orlov, Kempny Carlson is scary.

 

[SHOOTANDSCORE]

Speaking of the Caps, I was listening to the Hockey News Podcast on the commute and they talked them up so much and then said we were Edmonton East.

I mean, I can understand preferring the Caps up front given the 3C of Eller and Wilson and Vrana + Ovie and Oshie, but why are people assuming that D is going to be good?

Replacing Niskanen with Gudas and running a top four of Jensen Orlov, Kempny Carlson is scary.

No respect. I love it. That's the type of bulletin board material that our D took personally in 2016. This is like smelling salts for Tanger.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Schultz has hit 40 points once in his career and he has never done it while not on a top powerplay unit. You're just overrating what Schultz has been in his career. Schultz is a guy who puts up 20-25 ES points in a year, isn't good defensively and isn't a great puck mover. The only year Schultz put up the kind of performance you seem to think is his normal is when Letang was out. Idk about you, but keeping a guy based on 1 season 3 years ago doesn't seem like a move a contender would make in 2019.

He was on pace for it last year (in spite of all the obstacles) and wasn't far off the year before. I can't fault the guy for someone falling on his leg sideways.

When you talk about Schultz's "one season", keep in mind that he's been exponentially more productive than Gudbranson in his worst seasons, and your sample size of Gudbranson playing well is 20 games.

Unless Schultz takes a paycut, he's not worth the price he's going to re-sign. He's in the same boat as Hornqvist, if you're not using him on the top PP unit, you're better off using that money elsewhere. Schultz isn't good enough outside of the powerplay to rationalize paying him what he's going to get on his next deal.

This doesn't fly while a defenseman making 4 mil per to score 10 points a season is on the team.