Salary Cap: Pittsburgh Penguins Salary Cap Thread - Pets is signed, so now back to JJ
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Randy Butternubs
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However unlikely/impossible, I'd still send JJ to WBS and keep up Riikola and Ruhwedel. Then, once one of the Pens LDs are hurt you can perhaps call him up. But my real hope is that a separate team who is a bit thin on the backend suffers an injury and has need for JJ.
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Gurglesons
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At this point 1sts are going to be more helpful in trades unless they are top ten. Protect the pick and trade it if that is what we have to do.
Empoleon8771
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I don't think retaining salary on Johnson will make him any easier to move. The term is the problem, not the cap hit. The best bet for moving him is to find a bigger trade where you can include him as a cap dump, like when the Penguins almost included Scuderi in the Kessel deal.
Ryder71
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We don't have our 2hd rounder this season anyhow so that option isn't really there. Although to get rid of JJ with minimal upheaval to the rest of the team as well as the added cap space we'd garner, I'd consider parting with a 2hd rounder (if that were an option).
Retention's the one thing I'd really baulk at. Next summer's going to be ugly, I don't want to be staring at a million tied up in Johnson. Or for the rest of the probable window. The 1st you can find ways around, giving up Rust you can find ways around... that retention you can't. I know I said this season comes before next off-season in the other thread, but this would be my exceptional circumstance against it.
Right now I don't know what I'd give up to be rid of JJ tbh. Being this close to the season brings out the optimistic gambler in me. What if tomorrow some Alzner has a bad injury and Montreal need a new bad minute eater? What if JJ's magically okay at hockey? What if Coughdrop is triumphant and keeping JJ until next summer is okay because he's just an incredibly overpaid 7D? I don't think the price to get rid of JJ can up much further from what it is, but it might suddenly come down.
BlindWillyMcHurt
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Really, really don't want to retain. But if he is unable to at least bounce back to somewhat serviceable 3rd pairing/extra D status this year that option gets more and more tempting.
I feel like if they can at least find him some limited minutes he can look decent in to build his value up a bit, they should continue pursuing trade options. And like Peat said, maybe you can hope a few teams become a little desperate in the meantime.
But that's probably optimistic.
I feel like if they can at least find him some limited minutes he can look decent in to build his value up a bit, they should continue pursuing trade options. And like Peat said, maybe you can hope a few teams become a little desperate in the meantime.
But that's probably optimistic.
I would have to guess that if some team has a LD injury they’re not going to be interested in trading for a D man with four years left on his contract, when there’ll be other teams with D to trade who have less than two years left on their contract...that’s the biggest issue with JJ...my best guess is it would have to be a hockey trade where we’re getting some salary back...
Ryder71
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I thought we had a pretty good offseason TBH. I like what we did as it pertains to our draft (although that can't be properly assessed for a while). I like adding Tanev just not at that amount or term but I like the player. I like trading for Kahun and ridding ourselves of Maatta. The Value JR extracted in trading Kessel, even though he had very limited options. And though it was done out of necessity I like the MP signing (obviously). Having JJ here and the Tanev contract are the only areas I take issue with. And certainly that can't be pushed under the rug. But overall I believe we took a a pretty big step forward.
Speaking Moistly
What a terrible image.
Definitely give up the 2nd, tbh. If that’s all it cost I’d be ecstatic and the Pens aren’t 2nd round titans anyway. The 1st depends on how high it is and how good the draft is. Retention is tougher. If he’s buried in WBS then you’re going to save 1.075 and still have 2.175 against the cap. The Pens could only retain 1.625 so if no one will take him without retention you’re still coming out ahead of him being in WBS or on the roster. If no one will take him without retention then it’s still cheaper than having him. The downside is that you’re for sure stuck with it for the rest of the contract but it opens the most cap space for the immediate future.
The big questions have to be the lockout and expansion. If GMs are given ways to get out of contracts then maybe it makes toughing it out more palatable. If you lose half a season and the cap becomes a formality for 2020-21 then you’re dealing with him with 2 seasons left either for Seattle in the expansion draft or someone else. Or buying him out. Assuming the Pens aren’t tanking at that point and it’s irrelevant.
At the end of the day, if anyone will take him, it’s a question of the price you’re willing to pay. A player like Rust? Who means a team will be taking on two 3M+ contracts and the Pens lose a good player to remove a tumour. A 1st or 1st+? That could end in tears if the window is closed within a year or two or it’s a higher pick like 16OA again. Retention? Definitely stuck with it and moving him in full would likely be easier for the final year or two... but that means 2 more seasons of JJ.
And, if the CBA has any drastic changes then you could majorly regret moving him before or after it. Good job, JR. A truly brilliant signing.
Dipsy Doodle
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I'd give up Rust or a 1st. Easy.
JJ's a bigger negative than they are positives for this team over the next 4 godforsaken years.
Search your feelings, you know it to be true.
A 1st probably won't even have an impact over that span, and we added a bunch of Rust-esque players over the last year without much difficulty.
JJ's a bigger negative than they are positives for this team over the next 4 godforsaken years.
Search your feelings, you know it to be true.
A 1st probably won't even have an impact over that span, and we added a bunch of Rust-esque players over the last year without much difficulty.
BlindWillyMcHurt
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I can't really advocate trading a 1st in good conscience. This team needs to stockpile talent to help buttress against the next few years, IMO.
That said... ask me again when he is chasing the puck carrier around the net like ring around the rosie only to spin-move into Murray well after the puck has been deposited behind him.
That said... ask me again when he is chasing the puck carrier around the net like ring around the rosie only to spin-move into Murray well after the puck has been deposited behind him.
Fair point - but to use the Montreal example, they've been rumoured to have an interest in him anyway, and I'm not sure what other teams out there have a LD that they're looking to trade.
It's possible a few teams want a LD anyway, what with the way signings are going right to the wire this year. I think LA were meant to be in on Gardiner and are in on Hutton - if both of those fail, do they go to Johnson? Maybe there's other orgs in that boat as well. Normally I'd poo poo it but this off-season is super weird.
There's the value of a 1st, or ex-1st rounder, as trade bait for potential difference makers that has me quibbling a little... but either JJ has a big turn around this season, or this is pretty much true.
edit: What's the best prospect people are willing to lose to get rid of JJ? Are any of the current WBSers off limit? Is Addison off limits?
Dipsy Doodle
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And yet, what potential acquisition would be good enough to make up for JJ dragging everybody into the pit?
I wouldn't have any prospect off-limits. Although that would mean the 1st was off the table.
Empoleon8771
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The thought of adding something of significance to move Johnson is stupid when they can just waive Johnson and stash him in the AHL. Why should the Penguins add a 1st or a top prospect to move Johnson when they can just waive him?
And before someone says "the Penguins aren't a team that waives veterans", they're also not a team who adds top prospects to salary dumps to get rid of them.
And before someone says "the Penguins aren't a team that waives veterans", they're also not a team who adds top prospects to salary dumps to get rid of them.
Speaking Moistly
What a terrible image.
No JJ is a difference maker and not a small one. What gives me real pause with the 1st is that the 2016 1st could have been guys like Barzal or Chabot, and they had someone like Maatta step into the NHL after 1 season. It would hurt to lose an effective ELC for the rest of the window to move JJ. I’d rather have him in WBS and the player if they got lucky like that. Of course the 1st could also be a bust so...
I’m very leery of trading Addison but ask be me after the preseason. If he looks great then no. He’s potentially too valuable to use on JJ if he looks good. I doubt any of the prospects have the value to move him on their own, tbh. Maybe if someone has a great start to their season they would.
Gurglesons
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Moving Rust (or someone like him) with JJ would depend on what was coming back. If it was something decent that actually helped us, then that wouldn't bother me all that much. But then I also have zero issues with moving Rust in the first place.
@Andy99 Re Gudbranson I wouldn't move him this season unless we were getting something pretty good in return. If he's not going to make/break our season, then there's little reason to move him unless we have a good reason to do so. And needing cap space next summer isn't a good reason - you deal with that then. Gudbranson with his short contract and minimal salary next season (3m) would be a very easy player to trade. I mean even with his disastrous seasons in Vancouver he was in demand once Vancouver made him available. That won't change in the near future. Nor would Marino "looking like an NHLer" change what I did with Gudbranson. JM can spend the season in WBS getting a callup if we have some injuries. But I wouldn't be making room for him regardless of what sort of camp he has - what we saw from Riikola last fall should be a very cautionary tail as to how that can work out.
Empoleon8771
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Why would you ever do that trade....
Like that's just an awful suggestion. Even if you pretend that Kesler is 100% guaranteed to never play again (which isn't the case), you're trading a 1st to get a worse contract.
Gurglesons
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ColePens
RIP Fugu Buffaloed & parabola
Don't have a clue what you are talking about. It was at 991 posts and quickly approaching 1k so we started a new one?
BlindWillyMcHurt
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I would be very hesitant to give up the top end of the group of defensive prospects. They seem pretty interesting, all of the sudden. Then again... so did Harrington, Pouliot, Despres and Morrow.
Empoleon8771
Registered User
That doesn't answer my question. You're suggesting trading a 1st to get a worse contract than Johnson's. Even if Kesler never plays again, you're losing $3.5 million in cap space to get LTIR space, which is a bad trade-off. There's also the risk of Kesler coming back, and then the Penguins will be stuck with an even bigger anchor on their payroll than Johnson.
Again, if that's the cost of moving him, you just waive him and stash him in the AHL.
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