Salary Cap: Pittsburgh Penguins Salary Cap Thread - Pets is signed, so now back to JJ

[ColePens]

I'd give up Rust or a 1st. Easy.

JJ's a bigger negative than they are positives for this team over the next 4 godforsaken years.

Search your feelings, you know it to be true.

A 1st probably won't even have an impact over that span, and we added a bunch of Rust-esque players over the last year without much difficulty.

Then we move to a part where JR had to give up Sheary and Rust to package them with dmen that he signed in UFA for no f***ing reason.

I always thought it was Sheary OR Rust as they came up, as you can't pay everyone in UFA. But both guys are worth their money and are NHLers. But I always wanted Rust over Sheary albeit a guy like Sheary cheap is sooo nice. As we all loved.

But now we are talking about 2 homegrown guys passed on because JR just had to overpay in UFA for no f***ing reason.

 

[ColePens]

I would be very hesitant to give up the top end of the group of defensive prospects. They seem pretty interesting, all of the sudden. Then again... so did Harrington, Pouliot, Despres and Morrow.

I cannot believe guys like Harrington who looked like they had a little bit of everything and never put it together. But Pouliot and Morrow just nevvvvver thrived. Damn shame. It's amazing how much luck on top of skill you need to make it. Just amazing.

 

[Gurglesons]

That doesn't answer my question. You're suggesting trading a 1st to get a worse contract than Johnson's. Even if Kesler never plays again, you're losing $3.5 million in cap space to get LTIR space, which is a bad trade-off. There's also the risk of Kesler coming back, and then the Penguins will be stuck with an even bigger anchor on their payroll than Johnson.

Again, if that's the cost of moving him, you just waive him and stash him in the AHL.

I just don’t see them waiving him.

That being said I also don’t see them taking dead cap.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I cannot believe guys like Harrington who looked like they had a little bit of everything and never put it together. But Pouliot and Morrow just nevvvvver thrived. Damn shame. It's amazing how much luck on top of skill you need to make it. Just amazing.

Including Despres in that group isn't really fair. He couldn't do much about what happened.

But yeah... just goes to show, I guess. I was as on board as just about anyone when it came to assuming SOMETHING would come out of that group. And by that point I was kinda wary of Shero and his drafting.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I just don’t see them waiving him.

That being said I also don’t see them taking dead cap.

And I don't see them trading a 1st rounder on top of him to get rid of him.

Waiving him is the obvious best decision to deal with JJ, with the hopes you can dump him when his salary is lower in the last 2-3 years of his deal. Even if it was just trading a 1st to get rid of Johnson, getting an extra $2.25 million in cap space (with the savings from Johnson being buried) isn't worth trading a 1st. You can't use the argument of "they won't waive him and stash him in the AHL" because they also won't add a significant asset to get rid of him.

 

[Gurglesons]

And I don't see them trading a 1st rounder on top of him to get rid of him.

Waiving him is the obvious best decision to deal with JJ, with the hopes you can dump him when his salary is lower in the last 2-3 years of his deal. Even if it was just trading a 1st to get rid of Johnson, getting an extra $2.25 million in cap space (with the savings from Johnson being buried) isn't worth trading a 1st. You can't use the argument of "they won't waive him and stash him in the AHL" because they also won't add a significant asset to get rid of him.

I don’t know if I agree with that. We’ve done that a few times since JR took over.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I don’t know if I agree with that. We’ve done that a few times since JR took over.

When were those times? They moved Sheary out to move Hunwick, that's about it. Sheary was going to be a cap casualty either way and wasn't that valuable of a trade chip in the first place. Outside of that, when else did they do that?

Most of their cap moves were either swapping with similarly expensive players or as a minor part in a bigger deal.

 

[Riptide]

The thought of adding something of significance to move Johnson is stupid when they can just waive Johnson and stash him in the AHL. Why should the Penguins add a 1st or a top prospect to move Johnson when they can just waive him?

And before someone says "the Penguins aren't a team that waives veterans", they're also not a team who adds top prospects to salary dumps to get rid of them.

Because at the end of the day that's only a short term fix. We can do that for much of this season, but we probably cannot do that beyond this season. That said, it would probably be a lot easier to trade him after this season when he only has 8.25m left on the books over 3 years vs the current 12.25m. And if we're going to give up assets, then it probably makes more sense to do that later rather then sooner, because once you do they're gone.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Then we move to a part where JR had to give up Sheary and Rust to package them with dmen that he signed in UFA for no ****ing reason.

I always thought it was Sheary OR Rust as they came up, as you can't pay everyone in UFA. But both guys are worth their money and are NHLers. But I always wanted Rust over Sheary albeit a guy like Sheary cheap is sooo nice. As we all loved.

But now we are talking about 2 homegrown guys passed on because JR just had to overpay in UFA for no ****ing reason.

It's ridiculous, no doubt. But this is the situation most of us knew we'd find ourselves in the moment we signed JJ to that deal.

We can't hold onto JJ because we're afraid to have egg on our face again. Kessel's consistent elite production is gone, Crosby and Malkin are entering their mid-30s, and we no longer have the playoff race wiggle room to withstand a drag like JJ over the course of a full season.

Rust or a 1st is a relative drop in the bucket.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Because at the end of the day that's only a short term fix. We can do that for much of this season, but we probably cannot do that beyond this season. That said, it would probably be a lot easier to trade him after this season when he only has 8.25m left on the books over 3 years vs the current 12.25m. And if we're going to give up assets, then it probably makes more sense to do that later rather then sooner, because once you do they're gone.

No, that's a perfectly fine long-term solution. They'll just have like a $2 million cap penalty going forward, which they can deal with. It's definitely not idea, but having a $2 million cap penalty isn't significant enough to trade a significant asset for.

 

[Riptide]

That doesn't answer my question. You're suggesting trading a 1st to get a worse contract than Johnson's. Even if Kesler never plays again, you're losing $3.5 million in cap space to get LTIR space, which is a bad trade-off. There's also the risk of Kesler coming back, and then the Penguins will be stuck with an even bigger anchor on their payroll than Johnson.

Again, if that's the cost of moving him, you just waive him and stash him in the AHL.

Well said.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

The thought of adding something of significance to move Johnson is stupid when they can just waive Johnson and stash him in the AHL. Why should the Penguins add a 1st or a top prospect to move Johnson when they can just waive him?

And before someone says "the Penguins aren't a team that waives veterans", they're also not a team who adds top prospects to salary dumps to get rid of them.

Waiving him doesn't get rid of his cap hit though, and we need every bit of cap space we can get.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Waiving him doesn't get rid of his cap hit though, and we need every bit of cap space we can get.

$2 million in cap space isn't worth a 1st round pick, top prospect or another significant asset.

 

[Gurglesons]

When were those times? They moved Sheary out to move Hunwick, that's about it. Sheary was going to be a cap casualty either way and wasn't that valuable of a trade chip in the first place. Outside of that, when else did they do that?

Most of their cap moves were either swapping with similarly expensive players or as a minor part in a bigger deal.

4th added to Fehr.

The picks to get rid of Sheahan and Brassard.

Off the top of my head.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

$2 million in cap space isn't worth a 1st round pick, top prospect or another significant asset.

For the next 4 years? Absolutely.

Look at who we have to re-sign next year. This isn't going to be easy even if we get rid of JJ altogether.

By the time a 1st rounder makes an impact (if at all) Sid and Geno will likely be on their way out and we'll be entering lotto territory.

 

[Empoleon8771]

4th added to Fehr.

Yes, Fehr was the only other example.

The picks to get rid of Sheahan and Brassard.

Uh, the Penguins TOOK the cap dump in that trade. The cap dump in that move was Bjugstad. That was not JR adding assets to get rid of cap, that was Florida adding McCann so the Penguins took Bjugstad.

For the next 4 years? Absolutely.

Look at who we have to re-sign next year. This isn't going to be easy even if we get rid of JJ altogether.

No it isn't, and it's a pretty ridiculous suggestion to say it is. If it means that you have to trade Rust for prospects, you do that. If it means you have to gamble on not re-signing Schultz and going for a cheaper option, you do that. Getting that extra $2 million in cap space at the cost of a significant asset just isn't better than the alternative options to deal with the dead cap space.

 

[Riptide]

But now we are talking about 2 homegrown guys passed on because JR just had to overpay in UFA for no ****ing reason.

Sheary would have been gone regardless due to how he played and what he was earning. He had his shot, missed and moving him was the best for us. I see little reason to reminisce over it.

And there's a reason that Rust is in the same sort of discussions after the season he had last year - and it's not just because we signed JJ.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

No it isn't, and it's a pretty ridiculous suggestion to say it is.

Again, look at who we have to re-sign (or replace).

Cap space matters.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Again, look at who we have to re-sign.

Cap space matters.

And again, re-signing all of those guys isn't worth trading a 1st rounder. It just isn't. You are grossly overstating the impact of that $2 million in cap space, especially with the cap likely skyrocketing with a new TV deal in 2 or 3 years.

 

[Gurglesons]

Sheary would have been gone regardless due to how he played and what he was earning. He had his shot, missed and moving him was the best for us. I see little reason to reminisce over it.

And there's a reason that Rust is in the same sort of discussions after the season he had last year - and it's not just because we signed JJ.

18 goals at 3.5 MOVE HIM OUT!

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

And again, re-signing all of those guys isn't worth trading a 1st rounder. It just isn't.

Murray. Galchenyuk. Schultz.

These are players that are going to either need to be re-signed or replaced. Losing any of them without replacing them for the sake of a 1st rounder that isn't even going to be an on-ice factor for years, if ever, would be a terrible mistake.

 

[ColePens]

Sheary would have been gone regardless due to how he played and what he was earning. He had his shot, missed and moving him was the best for us. I see little reason to reminisce over it.

And there's a reason that Rust is in the same sort of discussions after the season he had last year - and it's not just because we signed JJ.

Listen man... read my post and then quote me. Don't delete the part where I clearly wrote the same thing that Sheary would have been gone.

 

[Gurglesons]

Murray. Galchenyuk. Schultz.

These are players that are going to either need to be re-signed or replaced. Losing any of them without replacing them for the sake of a 1st rounder that isn't even going to be an on-ice factor for years, if ever, would be a terrible mistake.

One of Galchenyuk or Schultz is likely gone regardless, but I agree.

 

[ColePens]

18 goals at 3.5 MOVE HIM OUT!

Yeah Rusty struggled at the beginning of the season, and I'm sure even Bryan would tell you he was worthless, but the dude turned it all around and was incredible. He's worth his money.

It's funny. Rusty proved in the playoffs and in the regular season he's worth 3.5. Tanev has not. And (minority) people want to move Rusty because he's not a new toy.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

One of Galchenyuk or Schultz is likely gone regardless, but I agree.

Probably. But then they have to be replaced.

And I didn't even mention Pettersson.