Salary Cap: Pittsburgh Penguins Salary Cap Thread - JR is the worst

[Tom Hanks]

Hagelin the last 3 years, outside of that flash in the pan with Bonino and Kessel was an offensive black hole. Comparing two players by what they did at their age is pointless, especially when you're talking about an undrafted guy. This is the problem with you people who love analytics - it's black and white. Guys develop at different times. Kunitz was 26-27 before he started being productive. I'm not saying Tanev is going to be a 60 point player here, but I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that he is a 15 goal-30-35 point guy which is a pretty productive hockey player.

Hagelin is a fast hockey player. That's about it.

Offensive black hole after HBK? Malkin’s line scored at worse rate and was scored on more without Hagelin. To the point where Malkin’s GF% went under 50% without Hags. He helped and it worked.

If he was an offensive black hole wouldn’t have it been the other way round?
Line Stats - Natural Stat Trick

 

[Gurglesons]

Hagelin the last 3 years, outside of that flash in the pan with Bonino and Kessel was an offensive black hole. Comparing two players by what they did at their age is pointless, especially when you're talking about an undrafted guy. This is the problem with you people who love analytics - it's black and white. Guys develop at different times. Kunitz was 26-27 before he started being productive. I'm not saying Tanev is going to be a 60 point player here, but I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that he is a 15 goal-30-35 point guy which is a pretty productive hockey player.

Hagelin is a fast hockey player. That's about it.

I hated the Hagelin trade at the time. I thought very similarly to what I feel now given Hags contract versus Perron’s.

Hagelin is ten times the player Tanev is.

Tanev isn’t Kunitz.

Tanev isn’t Hagelin.

Tanev is a brother of an NHLer that had one good season and looks busy on the ice so fans like him.

What you just said is what is driving me insane about this signing. If people said (and granted some have) Tanev - TB - Simon sounds like a great line especially given the fact the total cost of the line factors out to be a 4th line in today’s NHL. Okay. I’m down.

When people start saying Tanev has untapped potential, is a 3rd liner, is Hagelin / Kunitz potentially.

Nope.

Nope.

Nope.

Nope.

He’s a player that got 14 minutes a night at the weakest position for the Jets last year. While I think the Jets are overrated they do produce offensively. Tanev benefited.

He still only got marginally good 3rd line numbers and his analytics sucked.

 

[JTG]

My dismay has a little more nuance to it than just looking upon the deal at face value. And even though that in and of itself is bad IMO, it's the fact JR felt compelled to offer up that term at all. That shouldn't have even been a consideration. To me it's more than just term or dollars and cents, it's the fact he looks like an imbecile and got taken for a ride. It's not a good look, and this is the second such occurrence in a year.

Yeah, I get that. I shook my head when the deal was announced too. That being said, if JR thinks that guy is the guy who is going to be a difference maker for us and is a guy we needed to get to where we want to the next 4 years, I'd agree with him. Tanev is a good hockey player and one of those glue guys that help teams win Cups. I'd rather give this team the best shot to win the next 4 years and we will deal with years 5 and 6 when we get there. Barring some really good prospect development or completely blowing up the core aside from Sid and starting over, years 5 and 6 we are f***ed anyway.

Offensive black hole after HBK? Malkin’s line scored at worse rate and was scored on more without Hagelin. To the point where Malkin’s GF% went under 50% without Hags. He helped and it worked.

If he was an offensive black hole wouldn’t have it been the other way round?
Line Stats - Natural Stat Trick

And Hagelin played with Kessel and Malkin. I'm not saying Hagelin is a black hole, but if he generated so much offense for Geno, dude has had 19 goals in the last 3 years. I don't need analytics to show me that.

 

[froods]

I hated the Hagelin trade at the time. I thought very similarly to what I feel now given Hags contract versus Perron’s.

Hagelin is ten times the player Tanev is.

Tanev isn’t Kunitz.

Tanev isn’t Hagelin.

Tanev is a brother of an NHLer that had one good season and looks busy on the ice so fans like him.

What you just said is what is driving me insane about this signing. If people said (and granted some have) Tanev - TB - Simon sounds like a great line especially given the fact the total cost of the line factors out to be a 4th line in today’s NHL. Okay. I’m down.

When people start saying Tanev has untapped potential, is a 3rd liner, is Hagelin / Kunitz potentially.

Nope.

Nope.

Nope.

Nope.

Hagelin is 10 times the player of Tanev? Really? That’s some major hyperbole.

 

[Gurglesons]

Hagelin is 10 times the player of Tanev? Really? That’s some major hyperbole.

No it isn’t? Hagelin was a crucial top nine forward on two cup winners and a multiple ECF finishing Rags team. He was also a stud PKer.

What is hyperbole is acting like Tanev is some untapped talent because he scored 9 goals through December last season and then dropped off a cliff production wise and looked busy on the ice.

 

[JTG]

I hated the Hagelin trade at the time. I thought very similarly to what I feel now given Hags contract versus Perron’s.

Hagelin is ten times the player Tanev is.

Tanev isn’t Kunitz.

Tanev isn’t Hagelin.

Tanev is a brother of an NHLer that had one good season and looks busy on the ice so fans like him.

What you just said is what is driving me insane about this signing. If people said (and granted some have) Tanev - TB - Simon sounds like a great line especially given the fact the total cost of the line factors out to be a 4th line in today’s NHL. Okay. I’m down.

When people start saying Tanev has untapped potential, is a 3rd liner, is Hagelin / Kunitz potentially.

Nope.

Nope.

Nope.

Nope.

He’s a player that got 14 minutes a night at the weakest position for the Jets last year. While I think the Jets are overrated they do produce offensively. Tanev benefited.

He still only got marginally good 3rd line numbers and his analytics sucked.

His analytics are irrelevant to the game of hockey. Watch him and see the value.

 

[ImporterExporter]

I hope Tanev plays on Sid's wing and scores 50 points at ES.

 

[froods]

No it isn’t? Hagelin was a crucial top nine forward on two cup winners and a multiple ECF finishing Rags team.

Hagelin then or now? Because he is not the player he was 3-4 years ago.

 

[Gurglesons]

I hope Tanev plays on Sid's wing and scores 50 points at ES.

So do I.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Hagelin's entire value to us was in his speed, forechecking, defensive play, and his ability to get pucks to the skilled guys on his line. If he chipped in offensively, that was icing on the cake. He was just a fast guy who did grunt work, but that is really valuable on a team with as much offensive talent as we have in the top-6. It allows Geno (and whoever else) to focus more on offensive creativity and it allows them to take some more chances offensively.

We've missed his presence greatly since we moved him for Pearson (lol). If Tanev can be a younger Hagelin, but with added physicality, that'd be absolutely phenomenal. I still don't like his contract at all, but if he can fill that aforementioned role, it's whatever. I think Geno and Gelchenyuk could have monstrous seasons if Tanev works out like that, and plays on their line.

 

[JTG]

So do I.

Even if he did you'd still be annoying and find something to complain about. SHowz da Anyalyticzz to see why when it's raining on tuesday he's a terrible hockey player.

 

[JTG]

Hagelin's entire value to us was in his speed, forechecking, defensive play, and his ability to get pucks to the skilled guys on his line. If he chipped in offensively, that was icing on the cake. He was just a fast guy who did grunt work, but that is really valuable on a team with as much offensive talent as we have in the top-6. It allows Geno (and whoever else) to focus more on offensive creativity and it allows them to take some more chances offensively.

We've missed his presence greatly since we moved him for Pearson (lol). If Tanev can be a younger Hagelin, but with added physicality, that'd be absolutely phenomenal. I still don't like his contract at all, but if he can fill that aforementioned role, it's whatever. I think Geno and Gelchenyuk could have monstrous seasons if Tanev works out like that, and plays on their line.

There was one shift I watched Tanev last season make Nashville defensemen cough up a puck 3 times in a shift. Relentlessly hounds the puck. The issue he had was that the guys he played with had zero offensive ability to carry a puck. They dumped and he just created turnovers.

 

[Tom Hanks]

Yeah, I get that. I shook my head when the deal was announced too. That being said, if JR thinks that guy is the guy who is going to be a difference maker for us and is a guy we needed to get to where we want to the next 4 years, I'd agree with him. Tanev is a good hockey player and one of those glue guys that help teams win Cups. I'd rather give this team the best shot to win the next 4 years and we will deal with years 5 and 6 when we get there. Barring some really good prospect development or completely blowing up the core aside from Sid and starting over, years 5 and 6 we are ****ed anyway.



And Hagelin played with Kessel and Malkin. I'm not saying Hagelin is a black hole, but if he generated so much offense for Geno, dude has had 19 goals in the last 3 years. I don't need analytics to show me that.

The last 3 seasons he was here he played at a 30 points per 82. When he was on the ice with Malkin the team scored at a better rate than when Malkin was without him. Malkin’s line was significantly better defensively too.

If it works, it works. You win as a team not individually and as a team the stats showed we were better off with them together (from 2016/17 until his last game here).

 

[Turin]

No it isn’t? Hagelin was a crucial top nine forward on two cup winners and a multiple ECF finishing Rags team. He was also a stud PKer.

What is hyperbole is acting like Tanev is some untapped talent because he scored 9 goals through December last season and then dropped off a cliff production wise and looked busy on the ice.

Yea, Hagelin really carried Pittsburgh and New York lol. Especially in 17.

Hagelin now is marginally better than Tanev, maybe. In his prime? Sure, yea Hagelin was pretty damn awesome. Lots of corsi gods lose value by the fact that they have no offensive touch to capitalize on their shot attempts, see LA and Carolina of yesteryear. But saying Hagelin is 10x the player Tanev is because he has a slightly higher corsi with significantly better zone starts is.. again, proof that you are REEing about Rutherford, which you’ve admittedly adopted as your thing.

 

[JTG]

Yea, Hagelin really carried Pittsburgh and New York lol. Especially in 17.

Hagelin now is marginally better than Tanev, maybe. In his prime? Sure, yea Hagelin was pretty damn awesome. Lots of corsi gods lose value by the fact that they have no offensive touch to capitalize on their shot attempts, see LA and Carolina of yesteryear. But saying Hagelin is 10x the player Tanev is because he has a slightly higher corsi with significantly better zone starts is.. again, proof that you are REEing about Rutherford, which you’ve admittedly adopted as your thing.

CORSI gods are hockeys equivalent to flat earthers.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

There was one shift I watched Tanev last season make Nashville defensemen cough up a puck 3 times in a shift. Relentlessly hounds the puck. The issue he had was that the guys he played with had zero offensive ability to carry a puck. They dumped and he just created turnovers.

I genuinely believe this team desperately wanted a new Hagelin, and still regrets moving him. That's the only way I can justify the zany contract they handed to Tanev.

Hope it works out. Could be absolutely huge for us.

Jake-Sid-Kahun
Tanev-Geno-Galchenyuk
McCann-Bjugs-Rust

That's a Hell of a top-9--though, I imagine one of Rust or Bjugs will be used as the vehicle to get JJ off this team.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

CORSI gods are hockeys equivalent to flat earthers.

LOL flat earthers. Buncha idiots.

The earth is hollow.

 

[Tom Hanks]

I genuinely believe this team desperately wanted a new Hagelin, and still regrets moving him. That's the only way I can justify the zany contract they handed to Tanev.

Hope it works out. Could be absolutely huge for us.

Jake-Sid-Kahun
Tanev-Geno-Galchenyuk
McCann-Bjugs-Rust

That's a Hell of a top-9--though, I imagine one of Rust or Bjugs will be used as the vehicle to get JJ off this team.

They should have tried to sign him back then. 11 mil is better than 21 mil (and an extra 2 years).

 

[Tacitus Kilgore]

I genuinely believe this team desperately wanted a new Hagelin, and still regrets moving him. That's the only way I can justify the zany contract they handed to Tanev.

Hope it works out. Could be absolutely huge for us.

Jake-Sid-Kahun
Tanev-Geno-Galchenyuk
McCann-Bjugs-Rust

That's a Hell of a top-9--though, I imagine one of Rust or Bjugs will be used as the vehicle to get JJ off this team.

A line-up like that leaves Horny on the 4th line right? That's a deep lineup indeed

 

[JTG]

I genuinely believe this team desperately wanted a new Hagelin, and still regrets moving him. That's the only way I can justify the zany contract they handed to Tanev.

Hope it works out. Could be absolutely huge for us.

Jake-Sid-Kahun
Tanev-Geno-Galchenyuk
McCann-Bjugs-Rust

That's a Hell of a top-9--though, I imagine one of Rust or Bjugs will be used as the vehicle to get JJ off this team.

I wouldn't play Tanev in the top 6 almost ever. I think he could be thrown up there a shift here and there to generate some energy, but he should be on the 3rd line with Rust, IMO. It just makes so much sense to keep those two together and let that line check the f*** out of teams. I wish we had a more skilled 3C there though.

 

[Gurglesons]

Even if he did you'd still be annoying and find something to complain about. SHowz da Anyalyticzz to see why when it's raining on tuesday he's a terrible hockey player.

Yeah, I’ve definitely played that card before that’s why I am constantly defending players like ZAR, Simon, and Gudbranson and have a love affair with Bonino.

 

[froods]

I genuinely believe this team desperately wanted a new Hagelin, and still regrets moving him. That's the only way I can justify the zany contract they handed to Tanev.

Hope it works out. Could be absolutely huge for us.

Jake-Sid-Kahun
Tanev-Geno-Galchenyuk
McCann-Bjugs-Rust

That's a Hell of a top-9--though, I imagine one of Rust or Bjugs will be used as the vehicle to get JJ off this team.

Hornqvist is way too valuable to be on the 4th line. I also don’t think Tanev is a top 6 forward. I think he is a perfect L3 LW option. Put Horny on the other side and that line will be a bitch to play against.

 

[Gurglesons]

Yea, Hagelin really carried Pittsburgh and New York lol. Especially in 17.

Hagelin now is marginally better than Tanev, maybe. In his prime? Sure, yea Hagelin was pretty damn awesome. Lots of corsi gods lose value by the fact that they have no offensive touch to capitalize on their shot attempts, see LA and Carolina of yesteryear. But saying Hagelin is 10x the player Tanev is because he has a slightly higher corsi with significantly better zone starts is.. again, proof that you are REEing about Rutherford, which you’ve admittedly adopted as your thing.

It isn’t concerning at all that a 30 year old with an ACL injury paced for a similar rate of points with much better analytics playing for three teams compared to the player we just signed for 6 years.

 

[JTG]

I'd like to see Galchenyuk tried on RW. He scores a bunch of his goals on the right side on the PP.

 

[66-30-33]

Maybe it's just me but noticed Hagelin always does well for a new team then fizzles out.