Salary Cap: Pittsburgh Penguins Salary Cap Thread - JJ is still here!!

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

In the two seasons since the cup, the system hasn't evolved and the notion that the team needs to stick to their game is reminiscent of "play our game" and "grind them *****es down."

Arrogance and stubbornness will be Sullivan's demise.

It's a shame because he's a guy I thought would be very open to adapting and evolving his system. He said the right things in videos we saw when he was hired and people posted his thoughts on coaching when he was working with the hawks.

Now 2yrs later after the cups. He's become what we hated in Bylsma. An arrogant ass hat that thinks his way is still the best way and there is a huge faction here that believes it to be true.

Success in coaching almost always breeds arrogance and lack of introspection. People really ought to know this by now.

That's why people shouldn't fight too hard for the guy. He's far from immune... owing to his personality perhaps even overly-susceptible.

 

[Riptide]

Doesn't Malkin and Chucky on the same PP cause the same problem? They both want to be on the right wall?

Crosby and Malkin seem to make it work. As did Malkin and Neal. I don't think the issue is having two of them there, but trying to add the 3rd. And I know that no one wants to break up the stars on the PP. But I'd like to think that we'd explore all of our options... and if there's no good way to replace Kessel and if neither of Guentzel or Gally (or whomever) work all that well on the left wall, then I'd like to see them try something else.

And just to clarify - because I know some will balk just at the idea of separating the stars on the PP... try Crosby, Malkin, Hornqvist and Letang and rotate in the 5th guy and see what works. But if the setup that provides us with the best results is having separate PPs, so be it.

 

[Peat]

Tbh, I'd been wondering about Malkin right at the very top for a while. Can't be more casual than Letang sometimes is. But probably not as used to dancing back and forth keeping the pucks in, although he does rotate up to the top enough anyway.

Whatever way we want to slice it, our 4 most talented PP forwards (bar Horny) are all left handed, so unless we find a way to make Letang and Schultz work that's sick, we should probably be looking to use at least 3 of them on PP1. Dunno how you make it work but it's got the biggest payoff.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Success in coaching almost always breeds arrogance and lack of introspection. People really ought to know this by now.

That's why people shouldn't fight too hard for the guy. He's far from immune... owing to his personality perhaps even overly-susceptible.

Bobby Knight was a philosopher. Of sorts. Kinda.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

They've tried the "separate but equal" powerplay scheme a few times and it's always a hot mess. There are better ways. If Chucky doesn't fit on the first unit then you just don't put him on the first unit. If he absolutely tears shit up at ES and forces his way on there... terrific. Tackle it then.

 

[Riptide]

I hate to be cynical, but all coaches eventually become Bylsma.

Agreed. There's very few coaches who can adapt enough and manage their players enough to last more than 5+ years and still be very good. Part of me is glad that Rutherford didn't give Sullivan an extension yet. However there's risks that come with that and I still have concerns about who might replace him if we're still unhappy with him later on in the season.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Agreed. There's very few coaches who can adapt enough and manage their players enough to last more than 5+ years and still be very good. Part of me is glad that Rutherford didn't give Sullivan an extension yet. However there's risks that come with that and I still have concerns about who might replace him if we're still unhappy with him later on in the season.

I think the FO might be thinking ahead on this once considering who they hired to coach WB/S. Which has been my favorite move by far this offseason.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I hate to be cynical, but all coaches eventually become Bylsma.

It's because coaches are allowed to be. How many GMs call out players and never the coaches?

All of them.

Coaches are not held to the same standard. I don't really get why they aren't. Want to talk shit about so and so not working hard enough after a game? Well why the f*** did you do what you did for that stretch as a coach?

 

[Tom Hanks]

Yeah, if he was Mark Stone and signed for 6.8 mil per I'm sure he'd have stuck around, but we're talking about a player who's top 5 at his position in terms of offense. The guy he was traded for isn't any better at defense and even in a best-case scenario isn't going to provide close to the same offense, but he goes where the coach says without issue. Hard to argue that's not the determining factor here.

I just think Sullivan has a pretty thin skin when it comes to anyone challenging his authority whether it's warranted or not, and those players usually get punted even when moving them makes the team objectively worse. That sort of attitude might be nearing the end of its shelf life here, particularly if we struggle out of the gate this year. If it turns out Kessel wasn't what was wrong with "the culture" and we're not scoring like we once were, there are only so many other places to point the finger.

I’m sure Sully does have that in his personality from what we hear. There’s good to his personality too.

Pens always have been a team that plays on emotion. When we’re on the high side we’re unstoppable. When it’s low it’s a disaster. Sully being a hard nosed straight shooter tamed the highs and lows and kept our eye on the prize.

Still no idea what happened last playoffs though (2018 injuries happened so understood there). We played with the intensity of a Riley Sheahan instead of a Patric Hornqvist. It was bizarre.

It’s not one thing (ie blaming Kessel for everything). That would be Facebook level thinking Think now was the time though to part ways with him.

I do like that any of our wingers potentially could be successful on any line and played in any circumstances with any of our centres (other wing needs to fit right but we have a bunch of various skill sets). Obviously quite a few won’t go to the 4th line but we are pretty interchangeable. Hopefully we don’t need to change too much with form and injury.

 

[iFishyHD]

Agreed. There's very few coaches who can adapt enough and manage their players enough to last more than 5+ years and still be very good. Part of me is glad that Rutherford didn't give Sullivan an extension yet. However there's risks that come with that and I still have concerns about who might replace him if we're still unhappy with him later on in the season.

I felt the same way about the last part until Vellucci happened. I don't know to much about the guy, but he's certainly got a chance if things don't work out next season, whether its Sullys fault or not.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Success in coaching almost always breeds arrogance and lack of introspection. People really ought to know this by now.

That's why people shouldn't fight too hard for the guy. He's far from immune... owing to his personality perhaps even overly-susceptible.

He's now had 2 seasons where he's actually done worse as a coach than the last few. That's not good. This team will not give him a short leash until he's wasted a third year and there's potential to waste a 4th after the two cups.

If JR believes he wants to win more while Sid and Geno are still in their early 30s, get woke old f***er. And stop signing shitty players like JJ.

 

[Riptide]

They've tried the "separate but equal" powerplay scheme a few times and it's always a hot mess. There are better ways. If Chucky doesn't fit on the first unit then you just don't put him on the first unit. If he absolutely tears **** up at ES and forces his way on there... terrific. Tackle it then.

They have... however I think it's also because A) we had RHSs at the times and B) because we didn't have 2 quality LHSs and 2 PMD like what we currently have. I'm not saying it's a guarantee to be better... but I think we're a lot better suited for it today with Gally (vs Kessel) and both of JS/KL then we have been at any point in the past.

 

[Ugene Magic]

Yes? Why would that be a problem now? The Penguins don't have Kessel anymore to keep coughing up the puck on the powerplay.

You may want to watch some of those again. Geno was just as guilty. It all stems from them trying to curl and send ill advised passes at the blueline. Bad reads. Sid is guilty at times.

Biggest issue is trying the same ploy over and over to gain the zone. Becomes very predictable.

 

[Ugene Magic]

I hate to be cynical, but all coaches eventually become Bylsma.

Because they want to do it "their way."

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Tbh, I'd been wondering about Malkin right at the very top for a while. Can't be more casual than Letang sometimes is. But probably not as used to dancing back and forth keeping the pucks in, although he does rotate up to the top enough anyway.

Whatever way we want to slice it, our 4 most talented PP forwards (bar Horny) are all left handed, so unless we find a way to make Letang and Schultz work that's sick, we should probably be looking to use at least 3 of them on PP1. Dunno how you make it work but it's got the biggest payoff.

We need Gusev.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Because they want to do it "their way."

"PLAYS THE GAME THE RIGHT WAY."

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

He's now had 2 seasons where he's actually done worse as a coach than the last few. That's not good. This team will not give him a short leash until he's wasted a third year and there's potential to waste a 4th after the two cups.

If JR believes he wants to win more while Sid and Geno are still in their early 30s, get woke old ****er. And stop signing ****ty players like JJ.

I think it doesn't help that the Penguins want to feel like they are different and can buck the trend... do the whole "Steelers thing." Or more recently, I guess... the whole "Patriot thing." But that's just not how the league works the vast majority of the time. Coaches are hired to be fired. 5 years is about your limit and really... is that SUCH a short window? In sports that's practically an eternity.

All that said, I was fine giving Sullivan the start of this year to see if he can get back to his old ways that actually seemed to have some impact. Public Enemy #1 is no longer a thing so he has had his excuses removed. But something tells me it will be YET ANOTHER "problem player" or "culture issue" that he and the GM will be crying about at some point next season when their underwhelming record ends up matching their underwhelming roster and coaching.

 

[HandshakeLine]

"PLAYS THE GAME THE RIGHT WAY."

Jokes on them, I aggressively play the games the wrong way. Incidentally, this is why I'm no longer allowed to play Monopoly.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Jokes on them, I aggressively play the games the wrong way. Incidentally, this is why I'm no longer allowed to play Monopoly.

You rob the bank a few times and everyone suddenly shuns you from monopoly.

 

[HandshakeLine]

You rob the bank a few times and everyone suddenly shuns you from monopoly.

Hit a lick on Uncle Moneybags. I'm all about that come up.

 

[Peat]

Jokes on them, I aggressively play the games the wrong way. Incidentally, this is why I'm no longer allowed to play Monopoly.

Let me guess - you took all the deeds, declared the state the only monopoly, then awarded the deeds to the other players depending on who offered you the best percentage of the profits?

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Hit a lick on Uncle Moneybags. I'm all about that come up.

I rage quit everything. I rage quit on my 4yr old nephew playing connect four. Kid f***ing cheated.

 

[pistolpete11]

Crosby and Malkin seem to make it work. As did Malkin and Neal. I don't think the issue is having two of them there, but trying to add the 3rd. And I know that no one wants to break up the stars on the PP. But I'd like to think that we'd explore all of our options... and if there's no good way to replace Kessel and if neither of Guentzel or Gally (or whomever) work all that well on the left wall, then I'd like to see them try something else.

And just to clarify - because I know some will balk just at the idea of separating the stars on the PP... try Crosby, Malkin, Hornqvist and Letang and rotate in the 5th guy and see what works. But if the setup that provides us with the best results is having separate PPs, so be it.

It's a little different than Crosby and Malkin, though. Crosby is very good down low and around the net. I don't think Malkin or Chucky are like that.

I'd actually put Letang in Kessel's spot and Schultz up top. The second unit would still have the potential to be pretty good with Guentzel, Chucky, Bjugstad (assuming he's still here, which might not be a safe assumption), hopefully Riikola is playing which means JMFJ isn't. I don't know who the 5th one would be. Probably Petts. Maybe even Gud with his big shot.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I’m sure Sully does have that in his personality from what we hear. There’s good to his personality too.

Pens always have been a team that plays on emotion. When we’re on the high side we’re unstoppable. When it’s low it’s a disaster. Sully being a hard nosed straight shooter tamed the highs and lows and kept our eye on the prize.

Still no idea what happened last playoffs though (2018 injuries happened so understood there). We played with the intensity of a Riley Sheahan instead of a Patric Hornqvist. It was bizarre.

It’s not one thing (ie blaming Kessel for everything). That would be Facebook level thinking Think now was the time though to part ways with him.

I do like that any of our wingers potentially could be successful on any line and played in any circumstances with any of our centres (other wing needs to fit right but we have a bunch of various skill sets). Obviously quite a few won’t go to the 4th line but we are pretty interchangeable. Hopefully we don’t need to change too much with form and injury.

And it is worth mentioning that Kessel wasn't to blame for one ES goal against last playoffs...2 were scored while he was on the ice and neither were his fault. He was less culpable there than any of our stars when it mattered most.

I like the versatility of our new wings too, but it came at the cost of high-end offense. Sullivan prioritizes deference and versatility. If we don't succeed it won't be for a lack of accommodating the coach's preferences, so I'd say he's on the clock.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Let me guess - you took all the deeds, declared the state the only monopoly, then awarded the deeds to the other players depending on who offered you the best percentage of the profits?

I mostly just put my brother in a headlock until he gave me Boardwalk and Park Place.

 

[Ugene Magic]

They've tried the "separate but equal" powerplay scheme a few times and it's always a hot mess. There are better ways. If Chucky doesn't fit on the first unit then you just don't put him on the first unit. If he absolutely tears **** up at ES and forces his way on there... terrific. Tackle it then.

Only reason this doesn't work is egos over their best advantage over other teams having a constant offensive pressure throughout games.