Salary Cap: Pittsburgh Penguins Salary Cap Thread - JJ and Letang drama

[Peat]

Is getting top six minutes or playing on our top power play like he was when he was doing that?

If you trade him for Hornqvist and he can play net front, he probably is playing PP1 tbf.

That said, stick me in the sceptics corner here. Niederreiter hasn't been particularly productive given his opportunities for a while barring one brief flurry when initially traded to Carolina.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I guess you hope he fits with Malkin and move Zucker down to L3, but I don't like it.

Or he could fit with Sid on line one. I'm pretty sure he can play either wing, and he'd finally give that line a bit of size so that Sid isn't the giant on the line having to do all the heavy lifting. Plus he's responsible defensively so that line wouldn't be leaking offensive chances against.

 

[Gurglesons]

If you trade him for Hornqvist and he can play net front, he probably is playing PP1 tbf.

That said, stick me in the sceptics corner here. Niederreiter hasn't been particularly productive given his opportunities for a while barring one brief flurry when initially traded to Carolina.

So our PP is all LH shots lol.

 

[Gurglesons]

Or he could fit with Sid on line one. I'm pretty sure he can play either wing, and he'd finally give that line a bit of size so that Sid isn't the giant on the line having to do all the heavy lifting. Plus he's responsible defensively so that line wouldn't be leaking offensive chances against.

You realize he was a healthy scratch for the Canes this year right?

I don't know. I feel like people are attached to him because he showed potential with MIN awhile ago, but he is someone that strikes me as having consistency issues. And I think replacing Hornqvist one of the passionate drivers on this team with more stoic players is a bad recipe.

I want some swagger.

 

[Peat]

So our PP is all LH shots lol.

Wasn't it that way when Neal and prime Kunitz was here?

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

You realize he was a healthy scratch for the Canes this year right?

And? He had a down year. If he was consistent or never had a down year, he'd be a lot more difficult to acquire than for an aging, often-hurt Hornqvist.

That's the thing with players who are available who don't cost much. They come with warts. But you look at their potential upsides in those situations to see what they could bring.

 

[Gurglesons]

And? He had a down year. If he was consistent or never had a down year, he'd be a lot more difficult to acquire than for an aging, often-hurt Hornqvist.

That's the thing with players who are available who don't cost much. They come with warts. But you look at their potential upsides in those situations to see what they could bring.

I guess I just see how some around here described Hagelin for Pearson.

 

[Ugene Magic]

I went back to the Canes board this morning asking what they'd be looking for in a Nino Niederreiter trade. One person said futures, another said Hornqvist (with a number of likes and posts agreeing), and another said Bjugstad (with maybe one person agreeing).

Bless their heart/hearts...

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I guess I just see how some around here described Hagelin for Pearson.

I don't think Pearson and Niederreiter are good comparables. For starters, I think Niederreiter is a better skater than Pearson, so he won't look as much like a fish out of water when the team is trying to play a more up tempo game.

Second, Pearson's absolute best seasons prior to coming to the Pens saw a solitary 20 goal season and two seasons in the 40-44 point range. Niederreiter's already shown much higher offensive upside than that.

Both might be gambles, but I think the upside Niederreiter offers is much better than Pearson.

 

[Peat]

I don't think Pearson and Niederreiter are good comparables. For starters, I think Niederreiter is a better skater than Pearson, so he won't look as much like a fish out of water when the team is trying to play a more up tempo game.

Second, Pearson's absolute best seasons prior to coming to the Pens saw a solitary 20 goal season and two seasons in the 40-44 point range. Niederreiter's already shown much higher offensive upside than that.

Both might be gambles, but I think the upside Niederreiter offers is much better than Pearson.

The difference between the two is mainly the PP. Niederreiter would have to be on PP1 to get that. At ES they're pretty similar, with Niderreiter offering slightly bigger highs but more regular lows.

I guess I just see how some around here described Hagelin for Pearson.

So Niederreiter would come here, look briefly fantastic, become a damp squib, then get traded away where to somewhere he looked fantastic? Would fit his Carolina pattern tbf ;P

I think the only two reasons to do Niederreiter for Hornqvist are

a) You are absolutely crapping yourself at the possibility of holding one season too far Hornqvist
b) You're tired of playing figure the right side so you move the sometimes square piece of Hornqvist for the most easily fitted piece of Niederreiter

Elsewise they seem to be - very roughly - the same sort of player, only Hornqvist is more effective and a known quantity

 

[Gurglesons]

The difference between the two is mainly the PP. Niederreiter would have to be on PP1 to get that. At ES they're pretty similar, with Niderreiter offering slightly bigger highs but more regular lows.



So Niederreiter would come here, look briefly fantastic, become a damp squib, then get traded away where to somewhere he looked fantastic? Would fit his Carolina pattern tbf ;P

I think the only two reasons to do Niederreiter for Hornqvist are

a) You are absolutely crapping yourself at the possibility of holding one season too far Hornqvist
b) You're tired of playing figure the right side so you move the sometimes square piece of Hornqvist for the most easily fitted piece of Niederreiter

Elsewise they seem to be - very roughly - the same sort of player, only Hornqvist is more effective and a known quantity

Good point. I guess I just don't think Hornqvist in decline like so many do here and it scares me to move a player that provides such a unique skillset for a 27 year old underachiever who is about to hit the age where power forwards intensely drop off.

I wonder if we could do something like Hornqvist and Riikola for Jordie Benn and Virtanen.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

The difference between the two is mainly the PP. Niederreiter would have to be on PP1 to get that. At ES they're pretty similar, with Niderreiter offering slightly bigger highs but more regular lows.

I think that's underselling Niederreiter. Pearson's best years at ES were 35, 34, and 32 points, respectively. That's almost 10 ES points below Niederreiter's best.

Maybe it's splitting hairs, but IMO, Niederreiter has more pure skill than Pearson and is a better goal scorer. The latter, IMO, is one of the things I think could really help this club.

 

[Peat]

I think that's underselling Niederreiter. Pearson's best years at ES were 35, 34, and 32 points, respectively. That's almost 10 ES points below Niederreiter's best.

Maybe it's splitting hairs, but IMO, Niederreiter has more pure skill than Pearson and is a better goal scorer. The latter, IMO, is one of the things I think could really help this club.

Mm, maybe I am slightly underselling him there, although Pearson's full season pace would have had him at 38 points, so a bit closer.

I'd agree that Niederreiter has more pure skill. But better goalscorer? Not at ES at least. You compare the last 5 seasons of both, Pearson has the two best there, with 20 and this season's 19 pace. Which, just watching Niederreiter's highlights this season to work out where he stands on the PP, makes sense, because Niederreiter scored plenty of pretty goals but not a lot of dirty ones. I compared him to Hornqvist but now I'm wondering if he isn't more properly giant Jared McCann. Might be limited viewing.

In any case... yeah, I think there's a fair comparable between Niederreiter and Pearson as players who might have seen their best days already. And tbh, I think Niederreiter has given more reason for people to wonder that than Pearson.

Incidentally, best I can work out, he stands in Sid's spot on the Canes PP. So that'd be kinda awkward here. Probably can use him as pure net front rather than just floating in though.

 

[66-30-33]

Imagine a top 4 of

Dumo-Letang
OEL-Marino

Or insert Klefbom in Dumos place (less D more O). If only...

Was reading Arizonas forum and they have an OEL on the move thread. I know we have no chance of getting him but that D would be lights out.

 

[SEALBound]

I went back to the Canes board this morning asking what they'd be looking for in a Nino Niederreiter trade. One person said futures, another said Hornqvist (with a number of likes and posts agreeing), and another said Bjugstad (with maybe one person agreeing).

I suggested a Horny for Nino or Gardiner swap and most were quite receptive. That said, Canes fans on HF are a little nicer than most other team's fans so...they have have hated them but are too nice to say otherwise.

Horny for Nino I would be interested for two reasons: Contracts are a wash but Nino is younger. We know Horny and we know what his skill set brings to the team. I just have trouble placing him confidently in the line up. I worry about our ability to find an effective LW for the 3rd line if he is the RW. McCann is not that LW. A hard nose forechecker on the RW and a playmaker wing on the LW means you need a shoot first center...and we don't have that and they are rare to come by. Now if stick Nino at 3RW, then you are opening up the possibility of that line becoming an offensive threat. If you do Murray for Tierney and Horny for Nino, you can build a third line of McCann-Tierney-Nino which I think has the potential to work well. Reality is, Nino would probably go to Sid first, then they'd swap Nino and Rust and Nino goes with Malkin but if that doesn't work, then that third line. I don't think Horny is a good fit with Sid or Geno given who the LWs are.

I probably wouldn't do Bjugstad without Horny going out in a separate deal.

Bad news for the idea of getting McCann signed to a cheap contract IMO. Fabbri had 31 points in 51 games with the Wings this year, which is pretty much a 50 point pace.

I think that's the McCann deal. I would guess $3mil x 3yrs. It's not unreasonable give what $3mil gets you in today's NHL. I tried to tell myself that Fabbri had a better upside but I really don't think that's true. I think McCann's bad-ish end to the season is what gets him down to $3mil from $4mil.

 

[Pens1566]

So our PP is all LH shots lol.

Lets be honest, for what Horny does on the PP, handedness don't matter.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Lets be honest, for what Horny does on the PP, handedness don't matter.

Plus the idea of Hornqvist on the top PP unit doesn't mean much if Sullivan views him as interchangeable on that unit with Guentzel and Zucker.

To me, that's the strongest argument for moving Hornqvist. He's an incredible PP player that Sullivan just isn't committed to being on the #1 PP unit for some reason.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Rodrigues played over Lafferty in the regular season.

Yes. And then after we saw what he was about, he sat in the playoffs.

Not the sort of depth that commands a premium, I'd say.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I don't think we need a net-front presence, that's the biggest reason I've been questioning whether or not Hornqvist is worth his contract to a team in need of so many significant changes and not a lot of cap to make them.

Look around the league at all the different power plays. Most of them don't have a dedicated net-front guy. Most of them operate at an efficiency far higher than ours does, particularly in the playoffs.

Our power play is stagnant. Guys plant roots and are perfectly happy passing the puck back and forth or trying to fire shots through half a dozen legs/sticks to try and make the highlight reel play. Nobody moves, nobody works to get the PKers out of position and open up lanes.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I don't think we need a net-front presence, that's the biggest reason I've been questioning whether or not Hornqvist is worth his contract to a team in need of so many significant changes and not a lot of cap to make them.

Look around the league at all the different power plays. Most of them don't have a dedicated net-front guy. Most of them operate at an efficiency far higher than ours does, particularly in the playoffs.

Our power play is stagnant. Guys plant roots and are perfectly happy passing the puck back and forth or trying to fire shots through half a dozen legs/sticks to try and make the highlight reel play. Nobody moves, nobody works to get the PKers out of position and open up lanes.

[Broken record]

Utilize the God damn bumper position and have that guy move back and forth between "screen" for point shots or "bumper position" for down low plays.

Any one of Guentzel, Rust or Zucker can fill that role as long as they're even semi-competent at recognizing when to screen and when to drop into the slot.

You don't need a permanent guy to stand on the goalie's toes.

[/Broken record]

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

[Broken record]

Utilize the God damn bumper position and have that guy move back and forth between "screen" for point shots or "bumper position" for down low plays.

Any one of Guentzel, Rust or Zucker can fill that role as long as they're even semi-competent at recognizing when to screen and when to drop into the slot.

You don't need a permanent guy to stand on the goalie's toes.

[/Broken record]

Bieksa, who has been great as an analyst on SN btw, talked about this last night. He went on about how much easier the PKers' job is when a team is content to plant roots and pass back and forth looking for the pretty play. Essentially said the PKers could use the PK as a time to take a breather when the PP guys didn't skate or work hard to chase pucks or get the PKers moving out of their assigned spots. It's easy to defend a PP like the Penguins have, even if they have a ton of talent on the ice, because it's extremely simplified for the PKers who stay in their spots and never have to think on the fly about anything like PP guys moving around and assignments changing.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Technology is fun.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Technology is fun.

Wait is that JJ? What a nightmare.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Wait is that JJ? What a nightmare.

I was pissing my gf off and then I saw that part of the app and was like...I know what I must do, now.

Mate, it has audio, lol.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I can't help myself...