Salary Cap: Pittsburgh Penguins Salary Cap Thread - Is one moon enough

[SEALBound]

that's true for the time that he's been here. but we also have seen him play much better in the nhl than what he's playing now. and no one has seen that from any of the wbs kid's

Indeed. I would venture the guess that a lot of us said "Lafferty is way better than Kahun" about a month ago. What about now? Chucky is an established NHL talent that is in a rut right now. It happens to every player. He has the potential to play out of it. Will he, is the question. Some guys don't click with a team. It's happened here - Brassard, Sheahan (sorta), Michalek - and it's happened to nearly every team.

Given the fact that we've been healthy for all of 2 periods, I'm willing to wait for health or until we identify a specific need or someone comes asking about Chucky and it's a good deal. If Montreal wanted him back for a 2nd+, I would strongly consider it.

Who said it? I either need to update some of my penguins followings or I'm blocked from said person.

Probably blocked

Who said what about what? I have so many people blocked on here its tiresome.

 

[Gurglesons]

All he said was that him and Malkin’s styles don’t mesh well, that his spot isn’t guaranteed when they’re healthy (this seems obvious at this point?) and that he’s a hard worker who started behind the curve due to his injury.

What is the realistic point of saying any of that?

 

[WayneSid9987]

So what do we do if Murray wants more years or money? We can’t make him sign.

How i play that is lock in Jarry now.
Assess Murr's play post season plus factor in his ask with the bottom line being only a hard "x.x" amount of max dollars spent at the goalie position.

You can certainly keep both if you sign up Jarrs to Saros money now and Murr sputters back to a goalie that deserves 5M for how ever many years. Thats around 6.5M total.
I wouldn't go far over that amount for the tandem.(maybe push the max amount to 7 total.)

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I said it in jest a couple weeks ago, but what if Jarry playing exceptionally well doesn't act as the galvanizing, motivational force for Murray like people want to think and it actually rattles him and makes him play even worse to see his direct competition playing infinitely better than he is?

 

[Jacob]

I said it in jest a couple weeks ago, but what if Jarry playing exceptionally well doesn't act as the galvanizing, motivational force for Murray like people want to think and it actually rattles him and makes him play even worse to see his direct competition playing infinitely better than he is?

I think that kind of goalie wouldn’t have made it to the NHL to begin with.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I think that kind of goalie wouldn’t have made it to the NHL to begin with.

I don't know if I agree with that. Pretty much human nature to feel that kind of pressure when your competition is outperforming you pretty badly and your job may be on the line. I think it's far more rare for a guy to push through and be better in that scenario, even with regard to professional athletes.

 

[Peat]

Said it once and I'll probably say it a hundred times, but its really too early to say much about Murray. Before this month of woe, he was probably one of the top 5 goaltenders in the NHL in the calendar year up to that date. If this was just an off month and he goes back to being that guy, then people's perceptions are going to swing big time. If he continues to play like this all year, they'll swing big time in the other direction. The difference between him having 2 good years out of the last 3 and 2 bad years out of the last 3 is huge. Some takes will age poorly.

This also applies to all "Would you trade him for a 2 RD stuff?" If he has a good year, no I wouldn't - if he has a bad year, I can't do that anyway.

Also I wouldn't go for a 2 RD as that's now Marino's spot but not the point.

Eh, I don't think so, man. Hall's one of those rare marquee players (i.e. Hossa) in that even if he's a rental, he's going to bring a big price tag. Palmieri is a good player, but even with term, he's not going to bring back anything close to Taylor Hall's value imo.

And if Palmieri doesn't bring back close to Hall's value, he's not going anywhere. I think you're thinking of this in terms of fair value - of course Palmieri isn't worth as much as rental Hall.

But in terms of the value Shero's going to demand to make the deal? Hall will go and as a result, Palmieri will probably only be available for a gross overpay. Shero can't hand over his next best winger - a popular local boy to boot - for anything less without getting more heat than is worth it.

I don't know if I agree with that. Pretty much human nature to feel that kind of pressure when your competition is outperforming you pretty badly and your job may be on the line. I think it's far more rare for a guy to push through and be better in that scenario, even with regard to professional athletes.

Murray has already been through this scenario multiple times and if this time it completely overwhelms him, it'll be about the first time.

 

[Gurglesons]

I don't know if I agree with that. Pretty much human nature to feel that kind of pressure when your competition is outperforming you pretty badly and your job may be on the line. I think it's far more rare for a guy to push through and be better in that scenario, even with regard to professional athletes.

Wow. Batting really well with the wrong takes today

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

And if Palmieri doesn't bring back close to Hall's value, he's not going anywhere. I think you're thinking of this in terms of fair value - of course Palmieri isn't worth as much as rental Hall.

But in terms of the value Shero's going to demand to make the deal? Hall will go and as a result, Palmieri will probably only be available for a gross overpay. Shero can't hand over his next best winger - a popular local boy to boot - for anything less without getting more heat than is worth it.

I think if/when Hall leaves, the Devils need to commit to a full rebuild. It'd a big mistake to hang on to a guy like Palmieri, imo.

Though I think Shero's probably on the hot seat so we'll see what the next guy does with the team. When the Devils bottom out again this season and finish in the bottom 5, I'd imagine ownership looks to reshuffle the team's approach.

Murray has already been through this scenario multiple times and if this time it completely overwhelms him, it'll be about the first time.

Murray was never in the scenario of being the de facto starter and having a guy breathing down his neck, ready to take his job. Murray was that guy breathing down MAF's neck.

 

[ChaosAgent]

There’s no reason to trade Murray unless he won’t take a 1-2 year deal as a RFA...that’s the real issue...JR I think is going to offer him a 5-6 year deal at $6 mil+ AAV let’s say...and the smart thing would be not to do that but to offer short deals to both Murray and Jarry and kick the can down to the Seattle draft...the fear though is that JR is going to pay Murray a lot because of past glories...

Spoiler alert: he and his agent won't.

 

[BrookswasHere44]

Indeed. I would venture the guess that a lot of us said "Lafferty is way better than Kahun" about a month ago. What about now? Chucky is an established NHL talent that is in a rut right now. It happens to every player. He has the potential to play out of it. Will he, is the question. Some guys don't click with a team. It's happened here - Brassard, Sheahan (sorta), Michalek - and it's happened to nearly every team.

Given the fact that we've been healthy for all of 2 periods, I'm willing to wait for health or until we identify a specific need or someone comes asking about Chucky and it's a good deal. If Montreal wanted him back for a 2nd+, I would strongly consider it.



Who said what about what? I have so many people blocked on here its tiresome.

Someone said JR said that Galchenyuk does "have a safe spot" in the lineup when healthy. Another poster asked where they was said (I'm still wondering as well) it was said to have been seen on Twitter.

Frick man I'm confused now.

 

[Peat]

I think if/when Hall leaves, the Devils need to commit to a full rebuild. It'd a big mistake to hang on to a guy like Palmieri, imo.

Though I think Shero's probably on the hot seat so we'll see what the next guy does with the team. When the Devils bottom out again this season and finish in the bottom 5, I'd imagine ownership looks to reshuffle the team's approach.


Murray was never in the scenario of being the de facto starter and having a guy breathing down his neck, ready to take his job. Murray was that guy breathing down MAF's neck.

If I had a buck for every time people said "Team X needs to commit to a full rebuild" and Team X did no such thing, I'd be able to finance this site single handed. Even when teams do commit, they still need to have a reason for fans to show up and some vets to shield the kids from taking the worst - guys like Palmieri if willing to stay.

And Murray was in this position last year. And the year before. And judging from a quick look in the CHL.

Spoiler alert: he and his agent won't.

If things broke down badly enough and his offer was too high for people to offer sheet I think he'd do that - pretty much walk straight to UFA - but unless he goes crazy, why have things break down that badly?

I don't think Murray's going to do us any favours - of if he does, they'll be minor - but I don't think he's going to do anything too nuts either.

 

[Gurglesons]

Galchenyuk for Radulov. One for one. Yes or no?

 

[Andy99]

Spoiler alert: he and his agent won't.

He can file for arbitration and he can hold out like Marner did I guess...and I guess he could try to get an offer sheet from another team, but that’s all he can do as a RFA...an offer sheet could benefit the Pens greatly depending on the $ amount...I doubt he gets an offer sheet because they’re still so few and far between but who know...I’m pretty sure he won’t hold out...if he selects arbitration, the team could ask for two years and he may not want that...so my guess is they would agree to some one year deal for $6+ mil...that’d be fine for one year ... that’s what JR SHOULD do...however, the way JR talks about Murray and excuses his play, I have no doubt he’s signing him to a 5-6 year contract before or by July..

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Galchenyuk for Radulov. One for one. Yes or no?

Is...this a real question?

 

[Andy99]

Galchenyuk for Radulov. One for one. Yes or no?

I’d do that in a heartbeat...

 

[ownal]

Galchenyuk for Radulov. One for one. Yes or no?

Yes sir.

 

[Peat]

Galchenyuk for Radulov. One for one. Yes or no?

Based on past impressions, yes, no take backs, so fast I'll take your hand off but I dunno if he's been looking like a declining player recently.

Would cause real issues this off-season in Capmageddon but oh well, that's the calibre of player you cause those problems for.

*pause* Wait, can he play left? Because I'd want him on Geno's left.

 

[Peat]

Luszczyszyn's latest column has some fun stats on us -

- We've averaged 3.5 regulars out due to injury a game
- Last night, we had 10.8 WAR out of the lineup, which is basically more than Detroit/Ottawa/LAK have in their entire line up; we should be close to a 90 point team if that was our every night line up
- We've been without players worth 8 WAR or more for 10 games now, i.e. more than a third of our games
- In our 10 healthiest games, we have out-scored teams 30-19 at 5-on-5, a plus-12 goal differential in all situations, has controlled the expected goals share to an astounding 59.5 percent rate and carries a 6-3-1 record

Sure, there's some moves you can make and some upgrades we should kick tires on, but basically the only thing this team really needs is to hire as many exorcists as it takes to drive the injury demons out of this team.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

If I had a buck for every time people said "Team X needs to commit to a full rebuild" and Team X did no such thing, I'd be able to finance this site single handed. Even when teams do commit, they still need to have a reason for fans to show up and some vets to shield the kids from taking the worst - guys like Palmieri if willing to stay.

And Murray was in this position last year. And the year before. And judging from a quick look in the CHL.

Well, needing to do something and actually doing it have always been different animals when it comes to hockey teams. The Devils went for it this off-season both in an attempt to be a better team and to show Hall they're serious about competing so he'd stick around--and it backfired hard. They're arguably worse with a bunch of new, big names, and Hall is all but gone already.

Murray was never close to this position in terms of potentially losing his starting job though. I don't care what DeSmith or Jarry did in the AHL or CHL or whatever. Jarry is clearly outplaying Murray now at the NHL level, by miles, and has a legit shot at taking over the starting duties if things continue the way they've been going for the first 2 months of the season. I'm not saying it's a sure-fire bet that Murray is rattled by Jarry's performance, but it's an interesting thought considering he doesn't seem to be improving or even plateauing, but continuing to regress as Jarry continues to get better. It's likely just a coincidence, but intriguing nonetheless.

 

[Andy99]

Based on past impressions, yes, no take backs, so fast I'll take your hand off but I dunno if he's been looking like a declining player recently.

Would cause real issues this off-season in Capmageddon but oh well, that's the calibre of player you cause those problems for.

*pause* Wait, can he play left? Because I'd want him on Geno's left.

no, he’s a RW...the other issue is that he has two more years at$6.25 mil with a modified NTC, NMC, but he looks like he could be exposed to Seattle if he sucks..he has 15 points in 29 games which is still a decent amount but not near the 72 points he’s had the last couple years..

 

[Andy99]

Luszczyszyn's latest column has some fun stats on us -

- We've averaged 3.5 regulars out due to injury a game
- Last night, we had 10.8 WAR out of the lineup, which is basically more than Detroit/Ottawa/LAK have in their entire line up; we should be close to a 90 point team if that was our every night line up
- We've been without players worth 8 WAR or more for 10 games now, i.e. more than a third of our games
- In our 10 healthiest games, we have out-scored teams 30-19 at 5-on-5, a plus-12 goal differential in all situations, has controlled the expected goals share to an astounding 59.5 percent rate and carries a 6-3-1 record

Sure, there's some moves you can make and some upgrades we should kick tires on, but basically the only thing this team really needs is to hire as many exorcists as it takes to drive the injury demons out of this team.

well someone on Twitter just lit a stack of sage and walked around PPG Paints Center with the burning sage in order to do an injury exorcism, so hopefully that works...

 

[Peat]

Also on the stats front, going by the fancy stats "Game Score" thing from Hockey Stat Cards, here's a list of dmen who were better than Marino in November.

Heiskanen
Spurgeon & Suter
Shattenkirk
Hamilton

List of dmen who were worse

Everybody else

 

[Speaking Moistly]

Murray was never close to this position in terms of potentially losing his starting job though. I don't care what DeSmith or Jarry did in the AHL or CHL or whatever. Jarry is clearly outplaying Murray now at the NHL level, by miles, and has a legit shot at taking over the starting duties if things continue the way they've been going for the first 2 months of the season. I'm not saying it's a sure-fire bet that Murray is rattled by Jarry's performance, but it's an interesting thought considering he doesn't seem to be improving or even plateauing, but continuing to regress as Jarry continues to get better. It's likely just a coincidence, but intriguing nonetheless

Literally happened in the NHL last season. It’s also why people should mind sample sizes. There was a contingent that thought Jarry sucked at the nhl level until this season, too. DeSmith was the new starter, Jarry sucked and Murray was a backup. This season Murray had a shit November and Jarry has had a great 10 games. DeSmith is in the AHL and started like ass only to get hot because he’s like that,

This is just a weird thing to question. Took the net from fleury, lost it in game 3 against Tampa and came back in for the rest of the run. Was fine. Was platooning with fleury all season, missed the first half of the playoffs from a hamstring injury and came in against the Sens in round 3. Was fine. Played hurt, lost the starting job to DeSmith, retook the net and was rode hard. Was fine.

You can question Murray’s health and consistency when he’s the guy. Questioning how he handles competition is asinine.

 

[Trade]

Galchenyuk for Radulov. One for one. Yes or no?

Is this a serious question? (this was my initial response as well before i read Soggy's.)

I take this and run 100% of the time. Radulov would be absolute dynamite in the top-6. He's the prototype of a Sullivan-beloved player.

Don't tease me like this....