Randy Butternubs
Registered User
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I mean the $'s the same. CDS got 1.25, Saros 1.5.
Just sayin' they should try and lock Jarrs in right now and let Murr's fate play out.
We have 3 goalies who have proven to be NHL-capable goalies. Honestly not one of them has proven to be a true #1 over the stretch of a season.
That said - you seriously would not deal Murray if it brought a really good 2 RD with term to replace Schultz (making him expendable for a pick or whatever)? What about a top-6 F? (Hall, Nylander, or even a step back from those guys on a lesser deal)? I feel like we're getting attached to the guy who's shown great poise while being no more immune to goalie lulls as anyone else.
Of course 87 and 71 deserve more offensive talent around them. That is my whole point. We used to lose our $#@% when Shero failed to address the problem and kept isolating our two best players in favor of bringing in more defensemen, etc. Well, 87 and 71 were a LOT younger then. They were also a lot more dominant offensively, even though we still see flashes.
You're right about Hall, but that is also my point. JR literally has to go out and acquire a former league MVP in order to make sure the player gets into the top 6 under Sullivan. It should not have to be that way. We should be able to do what Colorado does and acquire players of Donskoi's ilk and caliber, or Kadri, Burakovsky and Nichushkin, without seeing those players' value take a nosedive a few short weeks later.
Sullivan keeps making JR's job harder and harder. One of these years, JR will not be able to overcome that. Even Hall of Famers lose their skill level at some point.
You would trade Matt Murray for a No. 2 right defenseman?
Yes.
Either straight up, or with a + (from their side) of course depending on who the guy is. Most RD's would be a number 2 on the Penguins behind Letang, but with his guaranteed 20 games missed per year, they'd slot to #1 for good stretches. Pretty important position on this team in particular and is not one we should overlook with the honest probability that Schultz is gone by either February or July.
How did Murray not prove that last year? Playing 50 games with a .920 save% is 10000% a "true #1". Hell, he was even a true #1 in 17-18, even with his crappy stats.
No, I'm not overreacting to Jarry being good for 10 games and I'm realizing that goalies are way too variable to bail on a proven one for a guy with like 40 games of NHL experience as a backup. Trading Murray for a defenseman is pointless anyway, and trading Murray for a top-6 forward is only something that should be considered next off-season (as in 2021 off-season) if Jarry proves he can be a cup caliber #1 goalie.
Not sure who you were replying to since you didn’t reply to anyone, but it goes back to the older threads on this. There’s no reason to deal Murray in season, even if he is supplanted by Jarry.
Maybe you can make a case in the off-season or at the draft, depending on how this season plays out and Murray/Jarry’s contract demands, but nothing now would make much sense.
You want to trade the starting goaltender because the No. 1 defenseman gets hurt all the time?
How about this: keep your two young, cheap goaltenders and trade the $7.25 Ben Weider student of a No. 1 defenseman before he has zero value left?
All we need is another John Marino and we could move on from both Schultz and Letang.
Yeah, it was just a general reply to anyone suggesting trading Murray. Unless Murray is demanding an absurd asking price on his extension, there's no reason to move him. The first chance to move him comes with the next expansion draft, where you'll lose one of Jarry or Murray for nothing if you don't trade one of them.
Maybe the thought of trading Murray isn't "wrong", but it's super premature. It's way too early to make that suggestion.
Agreed. But we need to know more about both of these goaltenders before we can draw any conclusions prior to the expansion draft. Could it be that we of all teams will be forced to move a goaltender before BOTH expansion years? What have we become, a goaltending factory of all of a sudden?
He had good stretches just like any goalie. I'm not going to downplay his time here in an argument as a means to trading him. The fact that he's been good is obviously a reason some of the names have popped up in trades (Nylander/Hall). Simply because Jarry hasn't played 50 games is no reason to utterly discredit him either. (in fact he's played more in a much more brutal travel schedule down in the A riding buses versus flying in private planes, but that's another argument) Murray has been propped up by stacked Penguins teams just as much as Jarry has been overlooked at the NHL level.
My thoughts of trading him stemmed before this stretch of Jarry. Frankly they began after the sweep against the Islanders. This team is truly about as far beyond the performance of their goalie as any team can be. We rely far more on shot blocking from our forwards/D and offense-generation than we do on the performance of our goalie. He was incapable of saving us when we had no offense....just as he was capable of looking great when we were lighting up Lundqvist for 5. As such, I don't feel like committing to the position / him in particular....not when we can get a legitimate asset in return. If we had some schmuck behind him it would be a different story - but Jarry is showing he can play against NHL systems and forwards (last night is why I wasn't preaching to trade Murray after the Isles series...because you need to see first hand if your future has the ability to win games at the NHL level / for stretches). That's enough. How high /how long he shows that is utterly pointless when you recognize that no matter who the goalie is- they're capable of hot and cold streaks. That's the logic behind it. You're not trading a #1 because you drafted S.Knight and gamble everything.
Bob has just as likely of a chance of taking Florida deep in the playoffs as Craig Anderson, or Binnington, or Elliot, or Murray, or Jones, or Ward, etc. The position is the most volatile of any position and gets ridiculously overrated (due in large part because some goalies make others look much better than they are). Not overrated? The C position, or D depth.
#2 dman in the league? Sure.
But if Jarry does prove himself(im talking after the season and playoffs are over, even if TJ earns the starting role for playoffs id still keep MM instead of trading to improve the lineup) then we can move him for a top forward/dman.
Since we also have to factor in his contract demands too. Not to mention, Seattle coming soon and we'd have another Fleury/Murray situation.
But lets see Jarry keep this up first. Shutting out the Blues while we were missing half our team and coming off b2b losses being outscored 10-4? So far so good. Hes had one bad game so far. Murray has been a mess.
