Salary Cap: Pittsburgh Penguins Salary Cap Thread - I'd rather be your cocoon

[chethejet]

If the Devils had hit the jackpot in the players who were better than they had to take, who knows. But Nico and Hughes are potentially very good but not game changer players. Yet Shero made a really stupid trade for a massively declining Subban with that cap hit as well. His 3 center model can't work in the NHL. No one can duplicate Crosby, Malkin and Staal like the Pens were fortunate to land. He cost the Pens dearly in Pouliot instead of Forsberg and his insistence on PMD like Morrow as well. But credit him for later selections in Jake, Rust, Murray and Jarry.

 

[molon labe]

Since we're getting nostalgic about the 2013 draft, I always enjoy looking back at the story of how Scott Bell (now a scout for the Maple Leafs in an elevated role) and his borderline obsession with Guentzel (who was on Bell's radar since he was like 14 apparently) led us to landing Jake:

How the Pens landed Guentzel



"Departing Scout Central to Drafting of Guentzel" by Starkey, Joe - Pittsburgh Post-Gazette (Pittsburgh, PA), June 29, 2017 | Online Research Library: Questia

I want the prequel to this - the story on drafting Pouliot, please.

 

[Malkinstheman]

I want the prequel to this - the story on drafting Pouliot, please.

Shero: Alright who do you guys want

Scouts: No clue, we didnt scout anyone in the top-10

Shero: Hmm, we dont have enough D prospects, who put up the most points

Scouts: Some kid named Poliout

Shero: Sounds good

 

[Ryder71]

Not to pile on, but it seems like Shero really sucked in evaluating the team. Within 18 months of being Gm, JR acquired Hornqvist, Kessel and Perron(and then Hagelin). For years all Shero would do is hoard Defencemen, and not good ones either.

Yeah, passing on Forsberg was downright silly. Many saw that as a mistake even then.

 

[Tom Hanks]

If the Devils had hit the jackpot in the players who were better than they had to take, who knows. But Nico and Hughes are potentially very good but not game changer players. Yet Shero made a really stupid trade for a massively declining Subban with that cap hit as well. His 3 center model can't work in the NHL. No one can duplicate Crosby, Malkin and Staal like the Pens were fortunate to land. He cost the Pens dearly in Pouliot instead of Forsberg and his insistence on PMD like Morrow as well. But credit him for later selections in Jake, Rust, Murray and Jarry.

Subban was massively declining? He was a 51 point (per 82 games) player the 2 previous seasons and his advanced stats over that period were comparable over what he’s done in his whole career.

I really don’t get that statement.

 

[Darren McCord]

Isn’t it the scouts who usually pick after the first round anyways. So I don’t give him as much credit for these late gems

 

[Speaking Moistly]

Shero: Alright who do you guys want

Scouts: No clue, we didnt scout anyone in the top-10

Shero: Hmm, we dont have enough D prospects, who put up the most points

Scouts: Some kid named Poliout

Shero: Sounds good

More like “ohhhh, he plays with Joe Morrow. We know him! We’ve seen lots of him! And he’s a PMD!!!” Should’ve googled draft rankings at the damn table.

 

[Deport Ogie]

Yeah, passing on Forsberg was downright silly. Many saw that as a mistake even then.

I've told this story before but that was the draft in (then) CEC and it was surreal being there. The crowd buzz has been building up to number 8 because everyone knew it was Carolina and EVERYONE knew the Staal to CAR rumors.

Bettman steps up: "We have a trade...." Place goes NUTS.

Staal for Sutter (okay), Dumoulin (ironically not much reaction) and 8 overall (NUTS).

Shero waltzes up...crowd is insane, loud, frantic....."The Penguins select...from the Portland Winterhawks defenseman Derrick Pouliot!" and....the entire building just dies. Like a vacuum.

 

[molon labe]

Isn’t it the scouts who usually pick after the first round anyways. So I don’t give him as much credit for these late gems

A few of them should have their debts paid off by the org if they haven't been treated already. Many great NHL talents on this roster who came from the depths of the draft.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

I took a look at the teams at the bottom of the standings for some wingers and defenders who are on expiring contracts to try acquire. Here's my list:

Ottawa:
Connor Brown
Ron Hainsey, again
JG Pageau, but I think he'd cost too much in a trade

New Jersey:
Andy Greene, but I doubt he waives his NTC
Sami Vatanen, but I don't think the Pens need another RHD (only if Schultz is out long term)

Detroit:
Andreas Athanasiou, but like JGP he'd cost too much

Los Angeles:
Tyler Toffoli, maybe
Ben Hutton, I guess

Anaheim:
Michael Del Zotto, but I wouldn't be thrilled or upset

Chicago:
Erik Gustafsson, but he's probably not available

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

Isn’t it the scouts who usually pick after the first round anyways. So I don’t give him as much credit for these late gems

well yeah, but he chooses the scouts

 

[Speaking Moistly]

Isn’t it the scouts who usually pick after the first round anyways. So I don’t give him as much credit for these late gems

Some credit but nowhere near full credit. He put/kept those scouts in place and had the final say. But, yeah, a scout loving Guentzel isn’t Shero being brilliant other than listening to the guy. I’m sure there are stories of scouts loving a player who went on to do nothing.

 

[Shady Machine]

Subban was massively declining? He was a 51 point (per 82 games) player the 2 previous seasons and his advanced stats over that period were comparable over what he’s done in his whole career.

I really don’t get that statement.

Agreed although the trade does look stupid since they just traded Hall which is a recognition that they team isn't ready to make a run. Why go out and get Subban if you thought there was a decent chance you weren't extending Hall?

 

[Peat]

Agreed although the trade does look stupid since they just traded Hall which is a recognition that they team isn't ready to make a run. Why go out and get Subban if you thought there was a decent chance you weren't extending Hall?

My guess is that Shero's logic was that it's better to go out and get Subban (on the cheap) and maybe Hall won't sign, then not get Subban and have Hall definitely not sign because he thinks you lack ambition. Had to make a move of some sort.

And tbf, at the time, a bunch of people thought that Subban, Hughes and Gusev were going to make NJD really dangerous.

Also - I distinctly recall seeing something in the stats that made me believe in a decline for Subban, but now I look again I can't see it.

 

[Tom Hanks]

Agreed although the trade does look stupid since they just traded Hall which is a recognition that they team isn't ready to make a run. Why go out and get Subban if you thought there was a decent chance you weren't extending Hall?

Maybe they did think they could extend Hall and that was part of it by building a more competitive roster. It just hasn’t worked out that way on the ice.

If a few of their players play better this season then maybe things are different (obviously coaching has played a part too).

 

[Shady Machine]

Maybe they did think they could extend Hall and that was part of it by building a more competitive roster. It just hasn’t worked out that way on the ice.

If a few of their players play better this season then maybe things are different (obviously coaching has played a part too).

My guess is that Shero's logic was that it's better to go out and get Subban (on the cheap) and maybe Hall won't sign, then not get Subban and have Hall definitely not sign because he thinks you lack ambition. Had to make a move of some sort.

And tbf, at the time, a bunch of people thought that Subban, Hughes and Gusev were going to make NJD really dangerous.

Also - I distinctly recall seeing something in the stats that made me believe in a decline for Subban, but now I look again I can't see it.

Both fair points and I forgot a 1st wasn't included in the deal. It just seems like Hall and the Devils were never close in negotiations and Shero never even made official offer according to both parties. Plus, Ray said Hall never requested a trade and it was a team driven decision. He could just be protecting Hall, but does seem like a quick shift from "going for it" to "yeah we suck, offload asset time"

 

[PensandCaps]

Rust is our only everyday Right handed shot on Wing.

Looking at that, I'd say that our biggest need is a right handed top 6/9 winger

 

[DesertPenguin]

So realistically, who the **** can the Pens move Galchenyuk to?

Who would be realistic targets that are also impending UFA's that could be had for Galchenyuk that might also need a change of scenery?

I still really like Nuke as an option on the left side, he's slowly getting his confidence back in Colorado but he's looked great in the games I've seen him in and his hips aren't an issue at all it seems, that injury really hindered him for a while in Dallas, but the guy just seems healthy and like he's enjoying himself again.

I wonder if Colorado would take Riikola + Galchenyuk for Nichushkin if the Pens ate like 20% of Chucky's contract.

Now I will admit, I have a fascination with Nuke and have for years, I just think this kid is destined for more and the wheels are back for him and his confidence with the puck is coming back. He would be ****ing amazing on Geno's LW with Rust on the right side.

I'd love love love Nuke, but I'm guessing thats how COL feels about him too, and isn't selling.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I don't see what Nichushkin does for the Penguins at all. They basically have the same player to him in ZAR. A defense only, gritty bottom-6er isn't exactly lacking on this Penguins team.

The only thing I think they "need" is another top-9 winger, whether it be a RW for Crosby, LW for Malkin or a LW for Bjugstad (who will be the 3C when healthy). You have 5 of your top-9 wingers figured out with McCann, Guentzel, Kahun, Rust and Hornqvist, you need 1 more since Simon looks like a dud. I'd like to replace Schultz with a defenseman like DeMelo, but that's not a "need", that's just a want.

 

[DesertPenguin]

Rust is our only everyday Right handed shot on Wing.

Looking at that, I'd say that our biggest need is a right handed top 6/9 winger

RHS LW preferably. Either that or you get comfortable with Kahun in the top 6 at LW with one of Sid or Geno and out that RHS on Crosby's hip.

We have Rust, Hornqvist and Lafferty too. Rust is stapled to Geno now, Sid won't play with Horny and Lafferty isn't ready for top 6 duties. Keep him as an under the radar difference maker in the bottom 6.

 

[Pancakes]

Yeah, passing on Forsberg was downright silly. Many saw that as a mistake even then.

That's a little revisionist I think. From what I can remember Forsberg's stock was dropping when the draft hit (though tbh I can't remember why, but I do remember that it was).

That's not say that Joe Morrow ever looked like a good pick, though.

 

[Riptide]

Well, I think we can get C.Tanev locked in at a decent cap hit to be on a contender and with his brother in Pittsburgh, he's also a solid defensive defenseman that would be a fantastic partner for Petterson on the 3rd pair.

Dumoulin, Letang
Johnson, Marino
Petterson, Tanev

Something I think people are overlooking is the ED. We're already going to have to deal with Dumoulin, Letang and MP needing to be protected (Marino should be exempt if my math is right - but it's early, so yeah). Bringing in someone like Tanev, odds are as a UFA and someone who we'd be wanting to give us some sort of discount, he's getting a NMC. I mean maybe not... but as a 30.5 yr old UFA RD... I think if his salary demands are reasonable, he can also get a NMC out of someone to give him that certainty that players will want (if they can get it) with another ED on the horizon.

Might not be the end of the world with some of the kids we have in WBS, but after seeing bust after bust of kids who we thought had some promise I'm not one to bank on them before seeing them up here.

 

[SherogoesHAM]

Isn’t it the scouts who usually pick after the first round anyways. So I don’t give him as much credit for these late gems

I was told first hand from one of the previous coaches that when they drafted Derek they were told from the scouts "He's just like Letang" and when the coaches got him on the ice that he was nothing like Letang. I am sure they weren't comparing him to an experienced Letang but none the less not the same type of player. The coaches did not like that pick from the beginning.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

Something I think people are overlooking is the ED. We're already going to have to deal with Dumoulin, Letang and MP needing to be protected (Marino should be exempt if my math is right - but it's early, so yeah). Bringing in someone like Tanev, odds are as a UFA and someone who we'd be wanting to give us some sort of discount, he's getting a NMC. I mean maybe not... but as a 30.5 yr old UFA RD... I think if his salary demands are reasonable, he can also get a NMC out of someone to give him that certainty that players will want (if they can get it) with another ED on the horizon.

Might not be the end of the world with some of the kids we have in WBS, but after seeing bust after bust of kids who we thought had some promise I'm not one to bank on them before seeing them up here.

CapFriendly agrees with your math regarding Marino being exempt.

 

[chethejet]

Subban was not close to what he was with the Habs and his time with the Preds early on. He wasn't the PP guy anymore and his play was not as good on the eye test.