Salary Cap: Pittsburgh Penguins Salary Cap: Summer League Extravaganza

[Peat]

Regarding Carolina and Free Agency, I think it makes all the sense in the world for them to sign Robin Lehner.

Not a bad thought if they can shift one of Reimer and Mrazek, which maybe they can maybe they can't. Incidentally, I wonder what they're going to do about the ED, as they need a goalie signed beyond next season to be exposed and right now I don't think they have that.

And this is also an important point to note. Sheary may even be too much, especially if they can't dump Bjugstad.

If they're that pressed for cap space, I'd rather just go into next year with what they have and let Poulin and Simon battle it out for the top line spot. Make a trade during the season when you have more pro-rated cap space if neither can hold a spot.

Assuming they want to. Let's not forget - a lot of us are frustrated with players and want to just get rid and get some new guys in, but Rutherford isn't, or at least not on the same level. I don't think Rutherford's going to be at all perturbed about simply moving a goalie, getting a cheap bottom pairing guy and calling it the day. Even if he does want to move Bjugstad, he might well be thinking that Bjugstad now and Bjugstad two months into a season after proving some fitness and with pro-rated cap space around is enough of a different proposition value wise to be patient.

I think I'm with you. If it's difficult to get the remodel desired on a couple of spots this off-season, wait a couple of months into the season and see what solutions we get or who shakes loose. But then I'm a big fan of what Rutherford has done in season when opportunities rise.

Fair point, I don’t disagree. All it takes is 1 owner with free cash flow (for big upfront signing bonus) and cap space to get Hall paid. 9 mil x 7 yrs or something like that is my guesstimate for Hall, which might be a little lower than market value for a player of his quality, I’m less in tune with the cap/AAV stuff than I used to be.

Speaking of signing bonuses, unfortunately Bjugstad has a backloaded contract which will make him particularly difficult to move, IMO. I think it would be easier to dump JJ this offseason. I do think Bjugstad also has potential to bounce back.

You might be right on JJ vs Bjugstad, but I think there's a difference there in that Bjugstad is - if fit - a useful NHL player with a somewhat rare offering (RH centre). While JJ is a lot less useful and a lot more common. Not to mention JJ's term - he might be attractive to an Ottawa, and maybe the shortfall in hockey revenue creates a few more Ottawas, but that's about it.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Should he not be re-signed by the NYR and the Pens have cap space, I'd love for GMJR to make an offer to Jesper Fast.

I was thinking about that too. It's just tough because for me he's my Hagelin replacement. I like his game but it's all about....do you spend money on him over Simon? Is he that much of an upgrade over Simon?

 

[Randy Butternubs]

I was thinking about that too. It's just tough because for me he's my Hagelin replacement. I like his game but it's all about....do you spend money on him over Simon? Is he that much of an upgrade over Simon?

I mean, he's certainly an improvement over Simon. But will Crosby like playing with him? And what's his future contract? We know GMJR likes to overpay.

I kinda see him as the new Dupuis should he come to the Pens.

 

[dogthateats]

Idk where the off day thread went, but there is a cool video of Dumo cooking on NHL’s Instagram.

 

[Gurglesons]

I was thinking about that too. It's just tough because for me he's my Hagelin replacement. I like his game but it's all about....do you spend money on him over Simon? Is he that much of an upgrade over Simon?

He’s probably looking at the Tanev deal lol.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

lol Killorn and Rust on the same team

You're laughing because that'd be good or bad?

 

[Zirakzigil]

I think we should sign Alexei Kovalev.

2001 - 2011 - 2021.

As for the Simon/Sheary argument, my personal preference is getting rid of them both. Enough of the small midgets who cant skate, are soft on the puck, etc.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Can someone explain to me why it would make sense to spend millions in free agency on yet another LH shot winger?

We need that like we need a hole in the head. We're set on that front.

I also think people need to be a little more open to Ruhwedel as a bottom pairing option. He's the least flashy player imaginable, but he's solid. We don't need a world-beater there to start the season.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Conversely, if you bet on Poulin and he doesn't stick, you've got a hole.

This is why I wouldn't mind nabbing a guy like Saad or Palat (I think he plays both sides) from a team looking to shed a little cap this summer. Poulin works? They can play third line LW very well. He doesn't? Poulin can play third line LW, or get sent back to minors, and those guys would step in fine.

I don't agree there.

If Poulin fails, they've still got Simon. He's not anybody's 1st choice, but the 1st line performs well when he's there and Crosby likes him. He'd be fine as a stopgap to start the season.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

Can someone explain to me why it would make sense to spend millions in free agency on yet another LH shot winger?

We need that like we need a hole in the head. We're set on that front.

It makes sense if you want it as a luxury. Other than that I don't think there's a reason. Barring any weird health or injury issues. But you know this team.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

It makes sense if you want it as a luxury. Other than that I don't think there's a reason. Barring any weird health or injury issues. But you know this team.

Really, if we're going to be spending money and/or assets on a scoring winger, he better be RH.

 

[Gurglesons]

I don't agree there.

If Poulin fails, they've still got Simon. He's not anybody's 1st choice, but the 1st line performs well when he's there and Crosby likes him. He'd be fine as a stopgap to start the season.

Hm. I don’t know if I agree with that.

 

[T1K]

Really, if we're going to be spending money and/or assets on a scoring winger, he better be RH.

Very slim pickings to acquire a RH winger through free agency, probably would have to go the trade route. Having said that, I don’t think we NEED a forward. I’d rather not block that spot for Poulin.

 

[KIRK]

Very slim pickings to acquire a RH winger through free agency, probably would have to go the trade route. Having said that, I don’t think we NEED a forward. I’d rather not block that spot for Poulin.

On the other hand, you don't want to gift it to him, which is why I think in theory IF you're adding, it's a guy who's a true slot anywhere top 9 forward who legitimately can play either wing (I say either wing because IF Poulin is ready, then the guy has to slot as L3 LW given Horny being on the RW).

 

[KIRK]

Dadonov with Malkin would be too fun to watch for me.

Even if the Pens had the space, it wouldn't happen. I'm not sure having Dadonov on this wing would encourage Malkin's best habits, and I don't see him as a Crosby type of winger.

EDIT: On the other hand, with Zucker on the LW, maybe it works. But on the other hand from that, it gives Rust back to Sid, which I know everyone just LOVES.

 

[Peat]

I don't agree there.

If Poulin fails, they've still got Simon. He's not anybody's 1st choice, but the 1st line performs well when he's there and Crosby likes him. He'd be fine as a stopgap to start the season.

You're right that Simon can stopgap so hole is too strong, but there is definite room for improvement. I like Simon more than just about anyone here but both him and Crosby have to be in great form to get the results you want for a Crosby line, and Simon didn't give me the consistency I wanted this season.

If Simon is in possession of that spot a couple of months into next season, the likelihood is this thread is dominated by speculation over what winger we can trade for. If we can make that move over the off-season, that'd be pretty sweet. Almost definitely can't though.

Even if the Pens had the space, it wouldn't happen. I'm not sure having Dadonov on this wing would encourage Malkin's best habits, and I don't see him as a Crosby type of winger.

EDIT: On the other hand, with Zucker on the LW, maybe it works. But on the other hand from that, it gives Rust back to Sid, which I know everyone just LOVES.

If Rust is still his new improved self next season, I'm actually really curious about what happens with him and Crosby when next they meet. My big issue with that pairing was how often Rust would force a pass that was never on in a way he never really did with other players; if Rust is no longer doing that, maybe there's some fireworks potential.

I'd rather operate on the premise that Rust is glued to Malkin for now tho.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I mean, he's certainly an improvement over Simon. But will Crosby like playing with him? And what's his future contract? We know GMJR likes to overpay.

I kinda see him as the new Dupuis should he come to the Pens.

I love Fast's game, always have, he's been a guy I wanted when we had Hagelin, just to get even faster. Like his name, he's fast, he's responsible at both ends of the rink, he's an accountable player that Sullivan would love to play as well. But like my boy Hags, he's also inconsistent AF, but he's also produced better than Tanev has, so I think the Pens sort of set the market within their own cap structure for his type, 3.5m/yr, but that would (happily) mean Simon has to go, same for Rodrigues and I am fine with the latter being gone, as for Simon, upgrade with Fast is ages this team a little, but also gets faster. But I think with the below, they could still keep Simon and have Laff as the 13th guy.


Suck it @Tom Hanks


With 20.5~ cap space if you dump JJ, MM, and Bjug...

McCann took 3.5m/yr
Riikola took 1.02m/yr
Jarry took 3.5m/yr
Angello at 885k
Lafferty at 885k
Total: That's 9.79m (closer to around 11m with DeSmith back up and 100% against the cap, but also assuming Angello stays up somehow).
(If Simon isn't dealt with Murray for example, maybe he signs for around 3m/yr, hat would mean the team has to find a solid 3rd pair RD for around 3m-3.5m/yr which should be doable).

They could make it work, with enough cap space to go after a very decent 3rd pairing D. The team could also look at a better 3rd line LW option as well, maybe that's the 1yr contract they go after to pair with McCann and Horny.

I think Fast would actually work quite well with Crosby, he does shoot, but he also kind of get stuck in a middle of the pack role with the Rangers where he's their 2-way player, but in a purely offensive role where he has his defensive instincts to help out when they need it, I think he could be a 40+ pt guy.

Guentzel, Crosby, Fast
Zucker, Malkin, Rust
Lafferty(Simon), McCann, Hornqvist
Aston-Reese, Blueger, Tanev

 

[Honour Over Glory]

He’s probably looking at the Tanev deal lol.

I mean, well, yeah. The team set its own market for that type with the Tanev deal, if they could get Fast at that contract though, it'd be a good deal given they're the same age, Fast has produced better numbers and is a RHS version.

 

[EightyOne]

I just assume the pens will sign zero UFAs and overpay for the teams RFAs

:/

 

[Randy Butternubs]

Really, if we're going to be spending money and/or assets on a scoring winger, he better be RH.

How bout a top 9 RH winger who is fast and responsible? Maybe... Jesper Fast?

Very slim pickings to acquire a RH winger through free agency, probably would have to go the trade route. Having said that, I don’t think we NEED a forward. I’d rather not block that spot for Poulin.

How bout a top 9 RH winger who is fast and responsible? Maybe... Jesper Fast?

On the other hand, you don't want to gift it to him, which is why I think in theory IF you're adding, it's a guy who's a true slot anywhere top 9 forward who legitimately can play either wing (I say either wing because IF Poulin is ready, then the guy has to slot as L3 LW given Horny being on the RW).

How bout a top 9 RH winger who is fast and responsible? Maybe... Jesper Fast? I think he can do both wings.

I love Fast's game, always have, he's been a guy I wanted when we had Hagelin, just to get even faster. Like his name, he's fast, he's responsible at both ends of the rink, he's an accountable player that Sullivan would love to play as well. But like my boy Hags, he's also inconsistent AF, but he's also produced better than Tanev has, so I think the Pens sort of set the market within their own cap structure for his type, 3.5m/yr, but that would (happily) mean Simon has to go, same for Rodrigues and I am fine with the latter being gone, as for Simon, upgrade with Fast is ages this team a little, but also gets faster. But I think with the below, they could still keep Simon and have Laff as the 13th guy.


Suck it @Tom Hanks


With 20.5~ cap space if you dump JJ, MM, and Bjug...

McCann took 3.5m/yr
Riikola took 1.02m/yr
Jarry took 3.5m/yr
Angello at 885k
Lafferty at 885k
Total: That's 9.79m (closer to around 11m with DeSmith back up and 100% against the cap, but also assuming Angello stays up somehow).
(If Simon isn't dealt with Murray for example, maybe he signs for around 3m/yr, hat would mean the team has to find a solid 3rd pair RD for around 3m-3.5m/yr which should be doable).

They could make it work, with enough cap space to go after a very decent 3rd pairing D. The team could also look at a better 3rd line LW option as well, maybe that's the 1yr contract they go after to pair with McCann and Horny.

I think Fast would actually work quite well with Crosby, he does shoot, but he also kind of get stuck in a middle of the pack role with the Rangers where he's their 2-way player, but in a purely offensive role where he has his defensive instincts to help out when they need it, I think he could be a 40+ pt guy.

Guentzel, Crosby, Fast
Zucker, Malkin, Rust
Lafferty(Simon), McCann, Hornqvist
Aston-Reese, Blueger, Tanev

In my current ArmChair GM cap situation I was "able" to get rid of Bjugstad for picks to a team that has a low percentage of their cap to forwards and could use a RH C/W (NJ). And then I looked for a team that could use a "veteran" defenseman in place of a forward on a bad, shorter term contract. I used ERod to sweeten that deal. Which ended up being JJ+ERod+a lower Devil's pick to Detroit for Luke Glendening.

I used the Hockey Reference player comparison tool and compared Rust, Tanev, and Fast. Fast's next contract, to me, seems like it'll be just above what Tanev got. I ended up doubling his current salary and got a cap hit of $3.7m/year.

For your RFA re-signings, I have no clue what McCann'll get. That's likely dependent upon the years of the contract. Riikola, I believe, is as good as gone. Regardless, I believe he or his replacement will have about the same cap hit as Riiko has this year. Jarry will also likely dependent upon his years and if Murray is still here. Angello and Lafferty will likely take league minimum, or close to it, with a highly increased AHL salary. Edit: No way do I think Simon gets close to $3m. $2m max, but I think he's around $1.6m.

Given: Yohe's recent reporting that the team thinks POJ is close, the team wants a bottom pairing player who can play both sides of the d-pair, and the list of players mentioned -- I ended up signing Michael Del Zotto to a one year $1m deal.

While I kept Murray, I've got something quite similar to you:

Guentzel-Crosby-Fast
Zucker-Malkin-Rust
Simon-McCann-Hornqvist
ZAR-Blueger-Tanev
Glendening-Simon

Dumoulin-Letang
Petersson-Marino
Del Zotto/Riikola/Ruhwedel

Murray-Jarry

And I kept Murray because I don't believe Seattle would be able to pass up one of the Pens goalies. That way they'd be able to keep a stacked forward lineup without having to send picks or prospects to protect any unprotected players.

I mean, well, yeah. The team set its own market for that type with the Tanev deal, if they could get Fast at that contract though, it'd be a good deal given they're the same age, Fast has produced better numbers and is a RHS version.

Yes, I think I'd go as high as $4m for Fast.

 

[Peat]

I love Brandon Tanev but I wouldn't want a second of him at the same cost. Premium middle six energy forwards are a borderline luxury for contenders - great to have if you've got it done elsewhere, but the first thing to go if there are holes elsewhere. There is an opportunity on Sid's wing - and I don't think Fast can remove that opportunity - and an issue with the bottom pairing.

Is having Fast on the ice over Lafferty or Rodrigues really going to bring more value to the team than spending that money on a dman?

In my current ArmChair GM cap situation I was "able" to get rid of Bjugstad for picks to a team that has a low percentage of their cap to forwards and could use a RH C/W (NJ). And then I looked for a team that could use a "veteran" defenseman in place of a forward on a bad, shorter term contract. I used ERod to sweeten that deal. Which ended up being JJ+ERod+a lower Devil's pick to Detroit for Luke Glendening.

You might be able to move Bjustad like that.

You can't use Rodrigues as a sweetener when his RFA qualifying offer is a gross overpayment though. He's basically a UFA at this point.

Del Zotto/Riikola/Ruhwedel

That bottom pairing is reliant on POJ being able to carrying it, or picking up a rental. It's gross.

And I kept Murray because I don't believe Seattle would be able to pass up one of the Pens goalies. That way they'd be able to keep a stacked forward lineup without having to send picks or prospects to protect any unprotected players.

Do you really need to keep all of those forwards though? Our forward pipeline is pretty strong and once you get beyond our 6th/7th forward, I love guys like Tanev and Blueger but they're not high end irreplaceable types. Not to mention with some picks, you can probably get better players than Fast (or Tanev) for the cap hit from bad/cap teams.

Also, once you've got Murray on a contract buying UFA years, the cap hit's going up, make all of this harder.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

I love Brandon Tanev but I wouldn't want a second of him at the same cost. Premium middle six energy forwards are a borderline luxury for contenders - great to have if you've got it done elsewhere, but the first thing to go if there are holes elsewhere. There is an opportunity on Sid's wing - and I don't think Fast can remove that opportunity - and an issue with the bottom pairing.

Fast is more skilled/a better scorer than Tanev. I think he'd be a great compliment to Crosby and the other winger.

Is having Fast on the ice over Lafferty or Rodrigues really going to bring more value to the team than spending that money on a dman?

It certainly depends on the Dman. Who do you suggest? And would they get a NMC? I like Lafferty more than ERod, but don't think he's ready for full time top nine (heh, rhyme) duty yet. I don't think there's a spot for ERod here.

You might be able to move Bjustad like that. Let's hope.

You can't use Rodrigues as a sweetener when his RFA qualifying offer is a gross overpayment though. He's basically a UFA at this point.

Yeah at this point I'm just hoping to get rid of JJ and would like to get something of value for Kahun. Even if the value is jettisoning one of bJJug.

That bottom pairing is reliant on POJ being able to carrying it, or picking up a rental. It's gross.

I also don't like the bottom pair, but based it on Yohe's reporting. POJ did look quite good in pre-season last year and hopefully he continues this nice trend.

Do you really need to keep all of those forwards though? Our forward pipeline is pretty strong and once you get beyond our 6th/7th forward, I love guys like Tanev and Blueger but they're not high end irreplaceable types. Not to mention with some picks, you can probably get better players than Fast (or Tanev) for the cap hit from bad/cap teams.

No. I'd be okay with Hornqvist, Tanev, ZAR, or Simon being selected. And to a lesser extent, McCann, depending on his salary. What player for picks are you thinking? I see Grabner as a possibility.

Also, once you've got Murray on a contract buying UFA years, the cap hit's going up, make all of this harder.

Who's to say Seattle doesn't take Murray? The cap concern won't be as bad once one of the Murray-Jarry tandem is gone. We'll likely have a backup of no more than $1.25m.

See my responses above in bold green.

 

[Peat]

Fast is more skilled/a better scorer than Tanev. I think he'd be a great compliment to Crosby and the other winger.

What's his IQ/playmaking like? Because old Rust was more skilled and a better scorer than Tanev, but was still an inconsistent fit with Crosby.

And are we talking great compliment, or just straight up great? Because Simon has been a great compliment most of the time. He's not going to make it a potential murder line like Guentzel-Malkin-Rust was, but he could be a third wheel. If Fast isn't going to be more than great compliment/third wheel, then... I'm not against it, but I'm not hugely for it.

It certainly depends on the Dman. Who do you suggest? And would they get a NMC? I like Lafferty more than ERod, but don't think he's ready for full time top nine (heh, rhyme) duty yet. I don't think there's a spot for ERod here.

Yeah at this point I'm just hoping to get rid of JJ and would like to get something of value for Kahun. Even if the value is jettisoning one of bJJug.

Dunno yet on the dman. Want to see what's shaking loose. If Colorado want to move Cole to get some cap space, I'd like to go there. I doubt Vegas would move Martinez but he's also interesting. If there's a team that's happy to swap Bjugstad for a dman that fits, I'm intrigued too.

No NMCs though and probably no major splashes.

And you can't get anything of value out of the Kahun trade unless you resign them. That ship has sailed.

I also don't like the bottom pair, but based it on Yohe's reporting. POJ did look quite good in pre-season last year and hopefully he continues this nice trend.

I mean, based on Yohe's reporting, we ain't losing JJ either I like the team's faith in POJ but I'd like someone to hold his hand. And realistically, given how much Rutherford's spent on the bottom pairing over the years, there'll probably be someone there to do it (and probably JJ )

No. I'd be okay with Hornqvist, Tanev, ZAR, or Simon being selected. And to a lesser extent, McCann, depending on his salary.

Who's to say Seattle doesn't take Murray? The cap concern won't be as bad once one of the Murray-Jarry tandem is gone. We'll likely have a backup of no more than $1.25m.

If you're okay with any of the unprotected forwards going, why wave around a probably more valuable asset to save them?

And I don't think the cap hit would put Seattle off of Murray, but I do think a cap hit that includes UFA years means fitting in Fast - or an expensive dman - next year is pretty difficult. Forget after the expansion draft, I don't think you can do next season. I think you said earlier you reckoned you could get Murray and Jarry signed for 7.2m, right? 2.5m is a realistic total for Jarry. Which means 4.7m allocated to Murray. That's not buying UFA years. A cap hit for Murray that buys UFA years is probably more like 6m, minimum.

 

[Andy99]

I just assume the pens will sign zero UFAs and overpay for the teams RFAs

:/

JR’s history suggests that if any player is signed in FA, it’ll be a worse overpay than the RFAs, who’ll get maybe $500k more than they’re worth...lol

 

[Peat]

I don't really see the issue in Rutherford's RFA deals tbh. Guentzel's and Rust's look like highway theft. Dumo's was shrewd business too. Just bridging Murray looks like a fine move. Neither Schultz or Maatta worked out great but that's part on injuries.