Salary Cap: Pittsburgh Penguins Salary Cap: Summer League Extravaganza

[PensandCaps]

I think JR would go big name hunting, but would hope he'd save the cap space.

Any big name UFA signing will likely come with a NMC, which'll have to be protected in the Seattle Expansion draft. Names I could see him going after are:

1. Hall
2. Krug
3. Hoffman
4. Dadonov
5. C Tanev
6. Justin Schultz (please no)

Perhaps C Tanev just wants to get paid like his brother. And maybe he would be okay with the possibility of going to Seattle after playing just one season with his brother. Meaning perhaps he'd not ask for a NMC.

best value target would be Dadonov, will be cheaper than Hall and Hoffman, and is a better complimentary player than those two, who like to have the puck a lot.

id stay far away from Tanev, hes the beau Bennett of Defensemen.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Mates, I just want to see Bjugstad, Johnson, and Murray gone to clear the cap situation and then hopefully there's some cap left over to add a solid RHD for the 3rd pair.

 

[KIRK]

Mates, I just want to see Bjugstad, Johnson, and Murray gone to clear the cap situation and then hopefully there's some cap left over to add a solid RHD for the 3rd pair.

I really can't see JR higher end top 6 winger shopping. It'll take a long term commitment. And the open slot is RW. Rust, Horny, Tanev. If you add another long term guy, where does Poulin fit in BEFORE the end of next season? I see JR shopping for a top 9 guy who can play either wing and has experience/a little legit history in the top 6. As for the D, yep, 3rd pairing RD (ideally a legit 4/5 type who can play either side).

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I really can't see JR higher end top 6 winger shopping. It'll take a long term commitment. And the open slot is RW. Rust, Horny, Tanev. If you add another long term guy, where does Poulin fit in BEFORE the end of next season? I see JR shopping for a top 9 guy who can play either wing and has experience/a little legit history in the top 6. As for the D, yep, 3rd pairing RD (ideally a legit 4/5 type who can play either side).

Yeah which is why I didn't say any forwards for my target. I think what this team has is fine, if anything, they need to subtract (Bjugstad) and not add another forward.

I see the real big need after dumping the 3 I mentioned, is to add a 3rd pair RD that solidifies the 6.

 

[Peat]

Let's see... if you trade all of Bjugstad, JJ, and Murray without taking any cap back, sign McCann and Jarry to RFA deals only, promote DeSmith... by my count you've got about 13.7m to spend with 6 contracts left to fill. If you assign .7m to a cushion, and 4m to filling out spots with guys like Riikola, Lafferty, Rodrigues, Simon, that gives you 9m for two guys. You're pretty much immediately out of the Hall sweepstakes at that point, not that we've got a place to put him. Forward wise in FA... might be interesting to nose around Granlund or Dadonov, but even with a smaller pot, they might cost a little too much to feel long term comfortable with (although I guess as long as they don't want draft protection, YOLO). Defence... Vatanen would be a pretty nice guy to bring in who could switch sides depending on injuries or how quickly POJ makes the team. I'm not sure who the cheap version is. If you're happy to go right side only, DeMelo or Van Riemsdyk could be good options.

However, this is all best case scenario. Realistically if we shift all of those guys, Rutherford's probably buying some UFA years from McCann and Jarry. There's a darn good chance he signs Sheary. And more to the point, it's pretty unlikely he's moving guys out without bringing salary back in. If you can move Murray for just futures and ELCs, that in particular gives Rutherford a lot of space for movement in getting rid of JJ and Bjugstad if he so chooses (not that he probably does). I mean, it's probably impossible you could trade them for, say, Ian Cole and Ondrej Palat, but they're two guys who might be dangled cheap to get rid of cap and roster space and they'd solve our problems in the short term. Or if you managed to move Bjugstad without issue, you could see how Chicago felt about Murray for Saad (+2nd if signed long term).

In any case, I can't see a scenario where our UFA moves equal more than a guy like DeMelo to solidify the bottom pairing. We're not moving enough money out to do more unless we want to get buck wild spending assets and/or buying out guys.

I really can't see JR higher end top 6 winger shopping. It'll take a long term commitment. And the open slot is RW. Rust, Horny, Tanev. If you add another long term guy, where does Poulin fit in BEFORE the end of next season? I see JR shopping for a top 9 guy who can play either wing and has experience/a little legit history in the top 6. As for the D, yep, 3rd pairing RD (ideally a legit 4/5 type who can play either side).

Conversely, if you bet on Poulin and he doesn't stick, you've got a hole.

This is why I wouldn't mind nabbing a guy like Saad or Palat (I think he plays both sides) from a team looking to shed a little cap this summer. Poulin works? They can play third line LW very well. He doesn't? Poulin can play third line LW, or get sent back to minors, and those guys would step in fine.

 

[T1K]

Realistically if we go the forward route I would want someone with a strong 2-way game. Perimeter players don’t really excel here.

While I like Hall, I’d really only be interested in him if he signed a team-friendly deal (which isn’t entirely out of the question, but highly unlikely). If he just wanted a fat stack of cash he could have gotten that in New Jersey. Call me crazy, but I think there’s a possibility Hall could sign a 1-2 year deal somewhere for a cup run, and cash in the following free agency period. I think it will be difficult to get a crazy blockbuster contract in Free Agency this year compared to prior years.

 

[Gurglesons]

Yeah which is why I didn't say any forwards for my target. I think what this team has is fine, if anything, they need to subtract (Bjugstad) and not add another forward.

I see the real big need after dumping the 3 I mentioned, is to add a 3rd pair RD that solidifies the 6.

McCann + Jack Johnson + 2nd for Mantha tho.

That being said I could see JR targeting Richardson or Frolik on a one or two year deal in reality.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Let's see... if you trade all of Bjugstad, JJ, and Murray without taking any cap back, sign McCann and Jarry to RFA deals only, promote DeSmith... by my count you've got about 13.7m to spend with 6 contracts left to fill. If you assign .7m to a cushion, and 4m to filling out spots with guys like Riikola, Lafferty, Rodrigues, Simon, that gives you 9m for two guys. You're pretty much immediately out of the Hall sweepstakes at that point, not that we've got a place to put him. Forward wise in FA... might be interesting to nose around Granlund or Dadonov, but even with a smaller pot, they might cost a little too much to feel long term comfortable with (although I guess as long as they don't want draft protection, YOLO). Defence... Vatanen would be a pretty nice guy to bring in who could switch sides depending on injuries or how quickly POJ makes the team. I'm not sure who the cheap version is. If you're happy to go right side only, DeMelo or Van Riemsdyk could be good options.

However, this is all best case scenario. Realistically if we shift all of those guys, Rutherford's probably buying some UFA years from McCann and Jarry. There's a darn good chance he signs Sheary. And more to the point, it's pretty unlikely he's moving guys out without bringing salary back in. If you can move Murray for just futures and ELCs, that in particular gives Rutherford a lot of space for movement in getting rid of JJ and Bjugstad if he so chooses (not that he probably does). I mean, it's probably impossible you could trade them for, say, Ian Cole and Ondrej Palat, but they're two guys who might be dangled cheap to get rid of cap and roster space and they'd solve our problems in the short term. Or if you managed to move Bjugstad without issue, you could see how Chicago felt about Murray for Saad (+2nd if signed long term).

In any case, I can't see a scenario where our UFA moves equal more than a guy like DeMelo to solidify the bottom pairing. We're not moving enough money out to do more unless we want to get buck wild spending assets and/or buying out guys.



Conversely, if you bet on Poulin and he doesn't stick, you've got a hole.

This is why I wouldn't mind nabbing a guy like Saad or Palat (I think he plays both sides) from a team looking to shed a little cap this summer. Poulin works? They can play third line LW very well. He doesn't? Poulin can play third line LW, or get sent back to minors, and those guys would step in fine.

Thing is with the forwards you sign, it's just staying healthy and creating competition from within - I liked what I saw out of Angello and Lafferty and who's to say how good or close Poulin or Legare are as well as the others in the system. I know people WANT a Hall or whatever, but I am ok with the forwards after subtracting Bjugstad.

Because the real issue is shoring up that defense after you dump Johnson and you keep Riikola over him and try to find that solid anchor on the 3rd pair RD. Would another hot shot scoring forward be great? Sure, but mate, we literally have Zucker & Guentzel in the top 6, you have 2 legit top 6 wingers, 1 each for Sid & Geno and right now, you have Rust finding fantastic chemistry with Geno and really it's a rotating group for Sid's RW. Maybe with that extra cap left over, the team does what it used to do, 1yr contracts which doesn't hinder the cap going forward or stifle any prospects this team is spending time and money developing.

But even then, say you did what I said and got rid of those guys...

Guentzel, Crosby, Simon*
Zucker, Malkin, Rust
Rodrigues, McCann, Hornqvist
Aston-Reese, Blueger, Tanev
*Lafferty/Rodrigues - Depending on who that 1yr guy is, you then slot down Simon to that 3rd line.

As for the Chicago thing, mate they're in worse trouble than most teams given how they perform vs their salary cap. They have 7m in cap space next season and have to sign Kubalik as well, the Murray contract they would have to sign and if he's looking at 6m+ they're basically going to have to make do with filling that roster with around 3-4m in cap space (Caggiula, etc are other RFA's).

Also if you do the Chicago route, the team is likely not keeping Rodrigues either (really, no need, I would rather see Lafferty up than him) and try to conserve as much cap space with players from within that are knocking on the door as regulars, which as I mentioned would be the Lafferty's of the system.


Guentzel, Crosby, Saad
Zucker, Malkin, Rust
Simon, McCann, Hornqvist
Aston-Reese, Blueger, Tanev
Lafferty

Dumoulin, Letang
Pettersson, Marino
Riikola, *UFA/Trade*

Jarry
DeSmith
*Maybe a veteran goalie is signed for competition on a cheap 1yr.

Where does that leave us cap wise for a 3D? I haven't crunched the numbers like you.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Realistically if we go the forward route I would want someone with a strong 2-way game. Perimeter players don’t really excel here.

While I like Hall, I’d really only be interested in him if he signed a team-friendly deal (which isn’t entirely out of the question, but highly unlikely). If he just wanted a fat stack of cash he could have gotten that in New Jersey. Call me crazy, but I think there’s a possibility Hall could sign a 1-2 year deal somewhere for a cup run, and cash in the following free agency period. I think it will be difficult to get a crazy blockbuster contract in Free Agency this year compared to prior years.

I get why @Peat picked Saad for that scenario (Murray deal, Hawks don't have a goalie ready yet but aren't in a rebuild mode, etc).

I agree, I don't see them doing the Kessel thing again, a one dimensional forward. Even their add of Zucker, he's a capable 2-way player.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

Palat or Killorn, one of the two, will likely not be back in Tampa. I'd gladly take either.

 

[Peat]

Realistically if we go the forward route I would want someone with a strong 2-way game. Perimeter players don’t really excel here.

While I like Hall, I’d really only be interested in him if he signed a team-friendly deal (which isn’t entirely out of the question, but highly unlikely). If he just wanted a fat stack of cash he could have gotten that in New Jersey. Call me crazy, but I think there’s a possibility Hall could sign a 1-2 year deal somewhere for a cup run, and cash in the following free agency period. I think it will be difficult to get a crazy blockbuster contract in Free Agency this year compared to prior years.

I think there'll be options for Hall that can be competitive and pay a lot. I think Colorado could do it as long as they know how to handle Landeskog's and Makar's extensions the next year, and that Carolina could do it if they moved some cap. Certainly enough options that I'm not expecting him to give a competitor a serious discount.

There might be some bargains in the next tier of UFAs down though.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

McCann + Jack Johnson + 2nd for Mantha tho.

That being said I could see JR targeting Richardson or Frolik on a one or two year deal in reality.

Richardson? No.

Frolik? We're still on that? He's gotten significantly worse and people are still on that train, odd. I would never play Frolik over Lafferty, at this stage.

 

[Peat]

Thing is with the forwards you sign, it's just staying healthy and creating competition from within - I liked what I saw out of Angello and Lafferty and who's to say how good or close Poulin or Legare are as well as the others in the system. I know people WANT a Hall or whatever, but I am ok with the forwards after subtracting Bjugstad.

Because the real issue is shoring up that defense after you dump Johnson and you keep Riikola over him and try to find that solid anchor on the 3rd pair RD. Would another hot shot scoring forward be great? Sure, but mate, we literally have Zucker & Guentzel in the top 6, you have 2 legit top 6 wingers, 1 each for Sid & Geno and right now, you have Rust finding fantastic chemistry with Geno and really it's a rotating group for Sid's RW. Maybe with that extra cap left over, the team does what it used to do, 1yr contracts which doesn't hinder the cap going forward or stifle any prospects this team is spending time and money developing.

But even then, say you did what I said and got rid of those guys...

Guentzel, Crosby, Simon*
Zucker, Malkin, Rust
Rodrigues, McCann, Hornqvist
Aston-Reese, Blueger, Tanev
*Lafferty/Rodrigues - Depending on who that 1yr guy is, you then slot down Simon to that 3rd line.

As for the Chicago thing, mate they're in worse trouble than most teams given how they perform vs their salary cap. They have 7m in cap space next season and have to sign Kubalik as well, the Murray contract they would have to sign and if he's looking at 6m+ they're basically going to have to make do with filling that roster with around 3-4m in cap space (Caggiula, etc are other RFA's).

Also if you do the Chicago route, the team is likely not keeping Rodrigues either (really, no need, I would rather see Lafferty up than him) and try to conserve as much cap space with players from within that are knocking on the door as regulars, which as I mentioned would be the Lafferty's of the system.


Guentzel, Crosby, Saad
Zucker, Malkin, Rust
Simon, McCann, Hornqvist
Aston-Reese, Blueger, Tanev
Lafferty

Dumoulin, Letang
Pettersson, Marino
Riikola, *UFA/Trade*

Jarry
DeSmith
*Maybe a veteran goalie is signed for competition on a cheap 1yr.

Where does that leave us cap wise for a 3D? I haven't crunched the numbers like you.

I agree that we need to shore up the third line more than we need to go nuclear in the top 6 and the Murray-Saad thing was more me spitballing various examples of what we could do with cap swaps, but it's pretty close for me. A really strong body of forwards can cover a lot of sins on the blueline as long as they can pass.

I'm not sure Chicago would do it either for the reasons you give (well, that and their huge boner for Saad), but I don't think they'd hang up on us immediately for suggesting it.

Also, in the second example, I think you'd have 3m for the the new dman. Which is a little tight but doable.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

Regarding Carolina and Free Agency, I think it makes all the sense in the world for them to sign Robin Lehner.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

Should he not be re-signed by the NYR and the Pens have cap space, I'd love for GMJR to make an offer to Jesper Fast.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Why don't the Penguins just re-sign Sheary and run with:

Guentzel-Crosby-Poulin/Sheary
Zucker-Malkin-Rust
Sheary/Poulin-McCann-Hornqvist
ZAR-Blueger-Tanev

There's your 3rd line help, plus it gives the Penguins a safety net in case Poulin can't handle a top-6 role off the bat. You'd also probably have the money to keep Simon as an extra as more insurance too.

 

[Andy99]

Why don't the Penguins just re-sign Sheary and run with:

Guentzel-Crosby-Poulin/Sheary
Zucker-Malkin-Rust
Sheary/Poulin-McCann-Hornqvist
ZAR-Blueger-Tanev

There's your 3rd line help, plus it gives the Penguins a safety net in case Poulin can't handle a top-6 role off the bat. You'd also probably have the money to keep Simon as an extra as more insurance too.

because Sheary is not that good...

 

[Empoleon8771]

because Sheary is not that good...

The Penguins have no realistic way of getting a better top-9 winger than Sheary this off-season. Unless you think other teams are just salivating at the chance of taking on the Pens bad contracts.

 

[Andy99]

The Penguins have no realistic way of getting a better top-9 winger than Sheary this off-season. Unless you think other teams are just salivating at the chance of taking on the Pens bad contracts.

we already have someone of his ilk that plays there, namely Simon...there’s not a big difference between the two...they both do different things well and both have limitations and Simon will come a lot cheaper ...they’re both hopefully going to just be stand ins for Poulin if he’s ready and pans out...and we have other options too....so there’s no reason to re-sign Sheary since he’ll cost more...otherwise go for a better player if we’re going to pay someone in FA or make a trade...at the level of player Sheary is at there’s no reason to pay him UFA money when we have replacements..that’s my point

 

[Peat]

we already have someone of his ilk that plays there, namely Simon...there’s not a big difference between the two...they both do different things well and both have limitations and Simon will come a lot cheaper ...they’re both hopefully going to just be stand ins for Poulin if he’s ready and pans out...and we have other options too....so there’s no reason to re-sign Sheary since he’ll cost more...otherwise go for a better player if we’re going to pay someone in FA or make a trade...at the level of player Sheary is at there’s no reason to pay him UFA money when we have replacements..that’s my point

Sheary's not going to get a lot of money in free agency though. He's potentially affordable while the interesting guys - or the potentially available high end, high paid guys like Saad or Palat - are going to only be affordable if we're able to clear a megaton of cap. And while we've got Simon, two potential stand ins are better than one, particularly when one of them is probably starting the season injured.

Tbh, at this stage, probably even Sheary is beyond our price range though.

 

[Empoleon8771]

we already have someone of his ilk that plays there, namely Simon...there’s not a big difference between the two...they both do different things well and both have limitations and Simon will come a lot cheaper ...they’re both hopefully going to just be stand ins for Poulin if he’s ready and pans out...and we have other options too....so there’s no reason to re-sign Sheary since he’ll cost more...otherwise go for a better player if we’re going to pay someone in FA or make a trade...at the level of player Sheary is at there’s no reason to pay him UFA money when we have replacements..that’s my point

You're not going to get a better player than Sheary in free agency, that's the point I'm making. Sheary's a 15 goal, 30 point guy that has the potential to have a big season. He'll probably re-sign for about $2.5 million, and for that price, the best case scenario is a reclamation project that hits, with getting someone like Ennis or Acciari having a good year.

Sheary's not going to get a lot of money in free agency though. He's potentially affordable while the interesting guys - or the potentially available high end, high paid guys like Saad or Palat - are going to only be affordable if we're able to clear a megaton of cap. And while we've got Simon, two potential stand ins are better than one, particularly when one of them is probably starting the season injured.

Tbh, at this stage, probably even Sheary is beyond our price range though.

And this is also an important point to note. Sheary may even be too much, especially if they can't dump Bjugstad.

If they're that pressed for cap space, I'd rather just go into next year with what they have and let Poulin and Simon battle it out for the top line spot. Make a trade during the season when you have more pro-rated cap space if neither can hold a spot.

 

[dogthateats]

Dadonov with Malkin would be too fun to watch for me.

 

[Khelandros]

The Penguins have no realistic way of getting a better top-9 winger than Sheary this off-season. Unless you think other teams are just salivating at the chance of taking on the Pens bad contracts.

Player Comparison Finder | Hockey-Reference.com

 

[T1K]

I think there'll be options for Hall that can be competitive and pay a lot. I think Colorado could do it as long as they know how to handle Landeskog's and Makar's extensions the next year, and that Carolina could do it if they moved some cap. Certainly enough options that I'm not expecting him to give a competitor a serious discount.

There might be some bargains in the next tier of UFAs down though.

Fair point, I don’t disagree. All it takes is 1 owner with free cash flow (for big upfront signing bonus) and cap space to get Hall paid. 9 mil x 7 yrs or something like that is my guesstimate for Hall, which might be a little lower than market value for a player of his quality, I’m less in tune with the cap/AAV stuff than I used to be.

Speaking of signing bonuses, unfortunately Bjugstad has a backloaded contract which will make him particularly difficult to move, IMO. I think it would be easier to dump JJ this offseason. I do think Bjugstad also has potential to bounce back.

 

[PensandCaps]

Palat or Killorn, one of the two, will likely not be back in Tampa. I'd gladly take either.

lol Killorn and Rust on the same team