Salary Cap: Pittsburgh Penguins Salary Cap: Lets do a better Reload than Hetfield

[Empoleon8771]

Yeah, if you look at Domi's numbers over the last 2 years with the Habs, there's nothing there that suggests he's bad analytically. The top line is obviously god levels good, but Domi himself is about neutral with the Habs as a team (-1.61 xGF%Rel). It should also be noted that the Habs have been a good analytical team in the last 2 years. His numbers this year have him about on par with Suzuki. And if you want to compare that to Rust, Rust's numbers really aren't much better (+0.54% xGF%Rel).

I don't think people are underrating Domi, but I think it's more people are overrating Rust. Although if you use the tool here, this is very friendly towards Domi's season in 2018-2019.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

So, would Hornqvist for Domi be more palatable than Rust? Not saying it's a possibility from either team's standpoint, just in theory.

Ugh...not the retreads again...just no to Domi, JR...he’s way overrated, doesn’t do much defensively either

How is a dude that just turned 25 and has never been a Penguin considered a "retread" in your mind?

 

[Peat]

The "likely revisited in the summer" sounds more than speculation to me.

I'm gonna listen again. But I just don't understand how it works.

Unless its McCann + Letang for Domi + Petry.

I think we sort of overrate Rust because we love him for his streaks of great play, and because of those great streaks, we sort of ignore the stretches of ineffective play. Do I think he's a bad player? Nah, not at all. I love Rust. But to say he's definitively better than Domi seems incorrect, and a bit biased to me.

Domi's been every bit the player Rust has been, production-wise, for years. He's also 3 years younger, and hasn't had the benefit of playing alongside Sid or Geno.

JR says big changes will be made, but specified the core is not part of his plans. I'm guessing that means Sid, Geno and Letang. That leaves guys like Rust, Hornqvist, Murray, and maybe even Dumo up in the air.

Rust's production has stayed consistent without Sid and Geno. He and Domi have got pretty similar production over the least three years at 5v5, and while Domi has the edge, Rust is the better goal scorer. Rust actually hits more if we think we're getting a physical guy in Domi - he's a pest, but not physical. If Domi's production looks better, its due to more PP time, and he's not actually been very effective there (unlike Rust). Plus Rust kills penalties.

There's definitely an argument that Rust is a better player. Maybe not definitively but there is an argument. And in terms of quality vs cost next year, he is almost definitely going to be more valuable.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I'm gonna listen again. But I just don't understand how it works.

Unless its McCann + Letang for Domi + Petry.

I think they'd do Rust for Domi, slide one of their LWers to RW and load up the top-6. They'll make the money work by going cheap with goaltending. I think that's probably the most likely way a Domi trade works.

 

[dogthateats]

Now do Evgeni Malkin or Kris Letang's last 8 playoff games.

Malkin 8gp 1g 3a 32sog -4
Letang 8gp 0g 1a 26sog -5
Crosby 8gp 2g 2a 19sog -4

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Malkin 8gp 1g 3a 32sog -4
Letang 8gp 0g 1a 26sog -5
Crosby 8gp 2g 2a 19sog -4

 

[Turin]

People citing playoff stats are always funny. I remember when Hossa and Hornqvist were bad in the playoffs.

 

[Jules Winnfield]

Didn't JR try to get Domi from Arizona the same off season they ended up trading him to Montreal for Galchenyuk? I seem to recall hearing he offered 2 of Rust, Sheary, and Simon, though I don't know if that was from a reliable source. If it was, JR would have absolutely fleeced Arizona if Sheary and Simon were the 2 players sent in exchange for Domi.

Yes. Rust was the core piece he offered. I forget the rest of the deal.

 

[dogthateats]

I just thought he looked especially invisible this year, but so did our whole team.

 

[Lust for Life]

So, would Hornqvist for Domi be more palatable than Rust? Not saying it's a possibility from either team's standpoint, just in theory.

I think it would take two separate deals, but dealing the 33 year old with three years left at $5.3 is better than dealing the 28 year old with two years left at $3.5m for a multitude of reasons, yeah.

 

[Gurglesons]

Based on his spider chart from this year, I'm really not getting this vibe that he has bad underlying numbers. I wish I had his individual impact from hockeyviz, but I'm cheap

I'm talking more about the fact he doesn't produce goals and is a left hand shot.

 

[Slaaapshuter]

Domi is an interesting player, and Rust is a prime target as a guy to move for a retool. But not sure how moving Rust's contract out for likely a more expensive one in Domi jives with the news of internal cap.

If Rutherford wants to put a competitive team out there and restructure the cap with 10 mill lower that means he needs to offload guys like Johnson, Hörnqvist, Bjugstad and maybe even Letang with little or no salary coming back.

Not sure how he will pull of this mission impossible. But this off-season will be the most interesting in years for all the boards "trade guys" since judging by comments every name but Crosby and Malkin could be traded.

Zucker and Tanev are too recent acquisitions and didn't win anything with Pens, so doubt Rutherford is looking to move them.

 

[Peat]

So listening to 31 thoughts on us...

- Friedman heard the rumour on the assistants going on Sunday but couldn't get it strong enough to run
- Compares it with Wilson and Babcock getting assistants shortly before getting fired and says deffo on notice
- Wonders if Bordreau mightn't become a highly paid assistant if he's not a HC
- Says that Rutherford might say the three aren't getting moved but that if he thought he was a dman away, he'd call on Letang, and he'd call on Malkin as well, and that the Penguins might be hoping someone makes an offer they can't refuse
- Thinks the Leafs should call on Letang - he talks highly of Letang's competitiveness
- Says he'd try changing Rutherford's mind on Malkin if he was Montreal
- They say that after the first 2 shifts, they thought Malkin was going to have 25 points and there'd be a sweep
- Shocked by Game 4; thought they didn't care
- Can't think of a team that's as skillful as the Penguins that needs to work as hard to win - it's either foot on the pedal and brilliant, or doesn't work and all falls apart
- His early bet on Domi - I don't hear Friedman say Rutherford's pursuit will be revisited in the summer - I didn't hear anything that made me think it was anything other than speculation, as obviously everything he said here was

 

[mpp9]

Domi's been shit. But he's an intriguing buy low target. If we're swapping Rust with him, I want something else.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Assists are as good as goals.

 

[mpp9]

Agreed that Letang would be a hell of a pickup for Toronto.

And any team in need of a 1C should be offering up the cupboard for 71.

 

[Peat]

Domi's been shit. But he's an intriguing buy low target. If we're swapping Rust with him, I want something else.

Centres with three consecutive 40+ seasons, one of which was 70+, are rarely buy low targets.

I think they'd do Rust for Domi, slide one of their LWers to RW and load up the top-6. They'll make the money work by going cheap with goaltending. I think that's probably the most likely way a Domi trade works.

That's still 1.5-2.5m extra slapped onto a team that's already having to lose about 8m more than expected from the cap. That's going to be hard.

Nevermind that I think switching one of the LWs to RW, switching a guy who's only thrived at C to W, and ignoring the bottom 6 and praying we don't have to find out what happens when the top 6 breaks down again and we need some goals is a lot of risks. That bit's doable. Just quite likely not to work.

 

[Turin]

So listening to 31 thoughts on us...

- Friedman heard the rumour on the assistants going on Sunday but couldn't get it strong enough to run
- Compares it with Wilson and Babcock getting assistants shortly before getting fired and says deffo on notice
- Wonders if Bordreau mightn't become a highly paid assistant if he's not a HC
- Says that Rutherford might say the three aren't getting moved but that if he thought he was a dman away, he'd call on Letang, and he'd call on Malkin as well, and that the Penguins might be hoping someone makes an offer they can't refuse
- Thinks the Leafs should call on Letang - he talks highly of Letang's competitiveness
- Says he'd try changing Rutherford's mind on Malkin if he was Montreal
- They say that after the first 2 shifts, they thought Malkin was going to have 25 points and there'd be a sweep
- Shocked by Game 4; thought they didn't care
- Can't think of a team that's as skillful as the Penguins that needs to work as hard to win - it's either foot on the pedal and brilliant, or doesn't work and all falls apart
- His early bet on Domi - I don't hear Friedman say Rutherford's pursuit will be revisited in the summer - I didn't hear anything that made me think it was anything other than speculation, as obviously everything he said here was

Of course Sportsnet takes what JR said about Malkin and Letang and somehow makes it about Montreal and Toronto.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Malkin 8gp 1g 3a 32sog -4
Letang 8gp 0g 1a 26sog -5
Crosby 8gp 2g 2a 19sog -4

Sid & Geno being at half a point per, I mean sure that’s bad based on what they are capable of, but for me, seeing the Islanders series and the Habs series, they can only do so much when they’re “sticking to their game” and the other team is 100% prepared and planning for “their game” and adjusts while you’re trying to ram a square peg in a pyramid hole.

They were by no means, stalwarts in both runs, but I think when you are trying to do as much as you can and the game plan is to just stick to what we normally do while across the rink you see a team that keeps adjusting to your team and the lines and match ups, it has to be frustrating.

Every time Sid or Geno popped over the boards, so did Weber and Petry and their units and our coach had literally no game plan around that, no way to split those lines up to make it harder, literally just played stubborn ignorance. LITERALLY what Bylsma did vs the Islanders and then the Senators and finally the Bruins and got owned, that one year.

 

[Peat]

Of course Sportsnet takes what JR said about Malkin and Letang and somehow makes it about Montreal and Toronto.

True.

Montreal would have to be pretty dumb to think they're now ready and it's time to get a great 1C and go. Toronto and Letang though... if they could afford it, it would make sense. For them at least.

 

[Andy99]

How is a dude that just turned 25 and has never been a Penguin considered a "retread" in your mind?

His name gets brought up every year as a possible trade candidate because of JR’s ties to his family...lol

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Of course Sportsnet takes what JR said about Malkin and Letang and somehow makes it about Montreal and Toronto.

Friedman is as much of a Leafs/Canadian Sports media homer as the rest of those guys, he’s hit or miss for me at times, I recall him getting a ton of crap for the Malkin rumours last year or the year before, then back peddled super hard about it.

I still think the correct course of action is to move Malkin to wing and find a 2c and then shift the depth down a little based on that. It frees up Malkin to be a more effective offensive weapon, sure he might prefer being a C, but I look at other players that get older and having young talent and its done wonders for them (namely Giroux).

I think it’s high time Guentzel has his own line.

Malkin, Crosby, Zucker
Guentzel, 2nd line C, Rust/Hornqvist
LW, C, Rust/Hornqvist
ZAR, Blueger, Tanev

I look at someone like even RNH in a deal for Murray + or someone like that. (Not RNH per se, just a solid 2nd pivot that can slot in to move Geno up to the first line, which makes it a harder line to match-up and then you have Guentzel on the 2nd line, etc).

Or you go

Malkin, Crosby, Hornqvist
Guentzel, C, Rust
LW, C, Zucker

You spread the talent out because you can and should and then find the supporting pieces there. I think its time to move on from McCann.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

His name gets brought up every year as a possible trade candidate because of JR’s ties to his family...lol

JR’s ties to his family? Mario has ties to the family, he’s good pals with Tie Domi, which is still weird imo, but yeah.

 

[BrookswasHere44]

For off season boredoms sake...

A. What do you think Toronto gives up for Letang?

B. What would you ideally be happy with as a return?

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

So listening to 31 thoughts on us...

- Friedman heard the rumour on the assistants going on Sunday but couldn't get it strong enough to run
- Compares it with Wilson and Babcock getting assistants shortly before getting fired and says deffo on notice
- Wonders if Bordreau mightn't become a highly paid assistant if he's not a HC
- Says that Rutherford might say the three aren't getting moved but that if he thought he was a dman away, he'd call on Letang, and he'd call on Malkin as well, and that the Penguins might be hoping someone makes an offer they can't refuse
- Thinks the Leafs should call on Letang - he talks highly of Letang's competitiveness
- Says he'd try changing Rutherford's mind on Malkin if he was Montreal
- They say that after the first 2 shifts, they thought Malkin was going to have 25 points and there'd be a sweep
- Shocked by Game 4; thought they didn't care
- Can't think of a team that's as skillful as the Penguins that needs to work as hard to win - it's either foot on the pedal and brilliant, or doesn't work and all falls apart
- His early bet on Domi - I don't hear Friedman say Rutherford's pursuit will be revisited in the summer - I didn't hear anything that made me think it was anything other than speculation, as obviously everything he said here was

Two things I agree with. I don't think we're making an effort to move those two, but I think the team is far more open to making a move than ever before. Even last summer when there was chatter about one of them being moved, I don't think anyone really thought much of it realistically. Now? Two embarrassing playoff bombs in a row, the core is that much older, this roster needs a bunch of work. I don't know, I don't think Geno will ever be dealt unless he makes it known that he's entirely open to it, but I don't think Letang's in that same category. Not that it'd do much to help, as removing Letang from this blueline corps is essentially calling an end to the era unless you've got something seriously significant lined up, but still.

As for the second part, he's right on the money. This is the same thing we saw for years with Shero and Bylsma. Flashy, great regular season success, always in a playoff position despite roster flaws. Immediately falls apart in absurd fashion come playoff time.