Salary Cap: Pittsburgh Penguins Salad Cap Thread: Craving Top 6 (Buffalo) Wings and More

[HandshakeLine]

To be the devil's advocate here, what exactly is Pettersson bringing to the roster since he came back?

I don't think we should trade him, necessarily, but I do think they should sit his ass in the press box until he remembers what his job is.

 

[The Old Master]

I just still find it bonkers that people piss and moan about how this team needs to become younger but simultaneously want to throw away a 24 year old middle pair defenseman because he has been bad for like 10 games.

Then again, you also had people here who said Dumoulin was fried and should be dumped after he had like 5 bad games to start the year, so I guess it's not unique to Pettersson.

don't want to throw away any one, but we can't keep everyone so who goes? seems like petts is the most likely choice. but depending on what is coming back could change every thing.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I'd also pretty heavily contest the idea that POJ can replace Pettersson as well. POJ had an insane start in the NHL, but his on ice results quickly went to shit and he was getting absolutely overworked by the end of his time in the NHL. He's someone that is still a very raw talent and needs to be eased into the NHL in a bottom pair role, ideally with someone like Ceci. He's not a guy that can replace Pettersson today, and unless Matheson magically starts being a capable LD for Marino, they're not going to have a legitimate 2nd pair LD for Marino.

Pettersson may not be an ideal partner for Marino and they may have to trade him just because they can't trade Matheson, but trading him is most likely not going to yield pretty results for the Penguins on defense. Either Matheson will get exposed while being misused with Marino (most likely outcome) or you're going to be throwing a raw POJ into the fire with Marino.

 

[pistolpete11]

Remember last year when the Pens were sitting pretty, made some unnecessary trades at the deadline, then went 3-7-0 in their last 10 before the break, and then had one of the more embarrassing playoff exits in the Crosby-Malkin era? Let's try to avoid making drastic changes that force the coaching staff and players to figure it out in 14 games before the playoffs. I have low enough expectations for the coaching staff. We don't need to add more to their plate.

Petts for a bottom 6 LW or C and a pick is what I'd be looking for. I'll throw this out there again. Petts for Ryan/Glendening and 3rd/2nd.

 

[Goalie_Bob]

Which they can't protect at the expansion draft. Which means they potentially waste all that for nothing.

Why can't they protect him?

Also I've been told repeatedly that expansion teams don't draft players with long contracts.

I responded to a thread in the main transfer board where they stated Winnipeg needs a top 4 LD. Unless they are going to go for a UFA, then they are going to have the same problem.

 

[Peat]

Really, anyone watching Petts play can see we’re not getting anything back for him if we even can offload his salary in a pandemic...I doubt it...if we can offload him for “future considerations “ that would be a win...I don’t think so...maybe in the offseason but if not, he needs to be on the unprotected list for Seattle...in fact, we probably should pay them to take him...that’s how much he’s not worth his salary

That's just on 25 bad games though. He's got two years of being worth it before that. He bounces back and things look different, particularly post-expansion draft. Having the worst spell of his career during the worst possible market is a real bummer for us, but I don't think we need to get locked into the idea that this is how it is for now and ever more because it almost certainly isn't.

Which, tbh, means we probably can offload him in the right circs even now. Just we'll get very bad value for it.

Why can't they protect him?

Also I've been told repeatedly that expansion teams don't draft players with long contracts.

I responded to a thread in the main transfer board where they stated Winnipeg needs a top 4 LD. Unless they are going to go for a UFA, then they are going to have the same problem.

Because they've got too many forwards to go 4-4 and DeMelo/Morrisey/Pionk complicate protecting him at 7-3. Vegas would probably rather avoid guys like Pettersson but there's not a whole lot of value on Winnipeg's roster otherwise; it wouldn't be a certain thing, but it's not ideal.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Also, I'd let POJ stay down in WB/S for a bit. We've got Riikola and Friedman (who both have played both sides) as well as Pettersson who can slot into that LD slot, so let POJ develop normally and get some top minutes while we try to figure out what on earth we'll do with our 3rd pairing.

 

[The Old Master]

To be the devil's advocate here, what exactly is Pettersson bringing to the roster since he came back?

I don't think we should trade him, necessarily, but I do think they should sit his ass in the press box until he remembers what his job is.

we have put him under the microscope and we are all seeing his little flaws that look a lot bigger now.

 

[Andy99]

That's just on 25 bad games though. He's got two years of being worth it before that. He bounces back and things look different, particularly post-expansion draft. Having the worst spell of his career during the worst possible market is a real bummer for us, but I don't think we need to get locked into the idea that this is how it is for now and ever more because it almost certainly isn't.

Which, tbh, means we probably can offload him in the right circs even now. Just we'll get very bad value for it.

I’d argue though that it’s not just this year for Petts...he’s been on the downswing since he signed this $4+ mil contract...maybe last year wasn’t as bad as this year but nonetheless, his overall body of work is mediocre which hurts his value...

 

[Empoleon8771]

To be the devil's advocate here, what exactly is Pettersson bringing to the roster since he came back?

I don't think we should trade him, necessarily, but I do think they should sit his ass in the press box until he remembers what his job is.

Pettersson is playing bad right now but I'd pretty much guarantee that none of Riikola, Matheson or Friedman would be doing better as a LD for Marino than he would be doing.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Pettersson is playing bad right now but I'd pretty much guarantee that none of Riikola, Matheson or Friedman would be doing better as a LD for Marino than he would be doing.

Nah, fam. But it's a hypothetical question because Sully's not going to sit a player who's playing bad but he likes for us to find out.

Riikola looked alright before his injury, Matheson has had a strong few games and Friedman is unknown. Pettersson took how many bad penalties last night? The smart move is sit the guy for a game or two and see if that helps, not keep encouraging him to play worse.

 

[HandshakeLine]

we have put him under the microscope and we are all seeing his little flaws that look a lot bigger now.

I don't really buy that. Petts was noticeably bad at times last night, losing coverage, unnecessary penalties, not making great decisions with the puck, being out of position. I don't think that's always been there and we haven't noticed it. I think it's a recent development which can be turned around, but I don't think it's a great idea to let him work through it now in game situations, especially when we have a surplus of LD who could step in.

 

[Tender Rip]

I just still find it bonkers that people piss and moan about how this team needs to become younger but simultaneously want to throw away a 24 year old middle pair defenseman because he has been bad for like 10 games.

Then again, you also had people here who said Dumoulin was fried and should be dumped after he had like 5 bad games to start the year, so I guess it's not unique to Pettersson.

You’re throwing red herrings here, because you know we do NOT need to become younger, and those arguing that we should deal Dumo know nothing, and their opinions on anything can be just discarded.

That leaves us with Petts. Lovely asset when he was cheap and a good game was not noticing him. At all.

Not so good when not cheap and being noticeable mostly for being weak and taking penalties.

Add the flat cap and the expansion draft, add Erod on L2.... Petts is the natural pinata.

 

[HandshakeLine]

One of the many things I find puzzling is that, even if the end goal is to keep Petts, you'd have to play the other LD in order to trade them. Just why on earth do we keep stockpiling LD and not ever playing them?

 

[Empoleon8771]

You’re throwing red herrings here, because you know we do NOT need to become younger, and those arguing that we should deal Dumo know nothing, and their opinions on anything can be just discarded.

That leaves us with Petts. Lovely asset when he was cheap and a good game was not noticing him. At all.

Not so good when not cheap and being noticeable mostly for being weak and taking penalties.

Add the flat cap and the expansion draft, add Erod on L2.... Petts is the natural pinata.

So you're really going to argue that the Penguins do not need to become younger? Fascinating.

This board has had an issue with Pettersson for years. Pettersson being traded may make some sense, but the amount of shit he gets from fans here is comical. It's nothing but fans on here over-correcting to the asinine expectations they put on him after his great 2018-2019 season.

 

[LRS87]

Friedman has also played a grand total of 15 minutes for the Penguins, so maybe slow down the train that Friedman can replace Pettersson.

Never said He can replace him. Point I was making is Pettersson provides nothing good.

 

[HandshakeLine]

The Pens are not an especially old NHL team, you know.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Not only that, but how does the expansion draft have any impact on Pettersson? The Penguins are going to protect Letang, Dumoulin and Pettersson with no other changes to the defense. As a matter of fact, looking at it from the angle of the expansion draft causes it to make MORE sense to keep Pettersson until after the expansion draft, because any team who can't protect him will value him less due to the expansion draft. The Penguins don't have an actual 3rd defenseman worth protecting, because Matheson's contract is his protection, Ceci is a UFA and everyone else is replaceable.

 

[HandshakeLine]

So, anyway, what is the intrinsic value of having a young blueline again? Why is this an unquestionably good thing?

I get the desire for the forwards, but I don't quite understand why it's at all a factor one way or the other on the blueline, especially if we're talking about the difference between a 24 and a 25 year old (Friedman) or 27 (Riikola). And also, POJ's 21.

 

[Empoleon8771]

So, anyway, what is the intrinsic value of having a young blueline again? Why is this an unquestionably good thing?

I get the desire for the forwards, but I don't quite understand why it's at all a factor one way or the other on the blueline, especially if we're talking about the difference between a 24 and a 25 year old (Friedman) or 27 (Riikola). And also, POJ's 21.

Friedman is a waiver caliber defenseman, Riikola isn't much better than that and POJ is extremely raw.

You're comparing apples to oranges. Any sort of internal replacement for Pettersson on that 2nd pair role will very likely yield noticeably worse results than what Pettersson would normally be providing.

Never said He can replace him. Point I was making is Pettersson provides nothing good.

And that point is laughably false.

 

[Peat]

To be the devil's advocate here, what exactly is Pettersson bringing to the roster since he came back?

I don't think we should trade him, necessarily, but I do think they should sit his ass in the press box until he remembers what his job is.

One of the many things I find puzzling is that, even if the end goal is to keep Petts, you'd have to play the other LD in order to trade them. Just why on earth do we keep stockpiling LD and not ever playing them?

And if you wanna trade Pettersson, keeping him playing through his slump helps too. Right now he's not great, he's not bringing anything other players couldn't bring, but he's not killing the team - hasn't been on ice for a 5v5 goal in the last five - and every game gives him a chance to break through and find his higher standard of play.

In a merit based universe he maybe shouldn't be playing, but the NHL isn't just merit, it's asset value and all that stuff, and right now that's all pro-Pettersson.

edit: I'd add given the asset value Pettersson's going to be outta here before next season most times, and given how much people have soured on him going from easy use 3rd dman to actual challenges 2nd dman, the confidence in the other guys on the roster to replace what he has been to the org is a little high for me.

I’d argue though that it’s not just this year for Petts...he’s been on the downswing since he signed this $4+ mil contract...maybe last year wasn’t as bad as this year but nonetheless, his overall body of work is mediocre which hurts his value...

Last year he took a big step forwards in responsibilities and gave more or less the same numbers. For me, that's a win. The eyetest wasn't as kind to him, but that's maybe to be expected against better players. The results matter more.

And there's been a huge shift in those results. Which is the main issue.

 

[Tender Rip]

So you're really going to argue that the Penguins do not need to become younger? Fascinating.

What?
The team is a contender because it has Sid, Geno and Letang. We can’t actually make THEM younger but the rest of the team is young.

No one else who is core is even 30.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Friedman is a waiver caliber defenseman, Riikola isn't much better than that and POJ is extremely raw.

You're comparing apples to oranges. Any sort of internal replacement for Pettersson on that 2nd pair role will very likely yield noticeably worse results than what Pettersson would normally be providing.

These are all assumptions because we don't have the data to back any of it up. Don't get why you're being pissy about it?

Now, to the bolded. Please show recent work that affirms this, because, boy howdy, that one pretty good season is doing a lot of lifting for him here.

If the question is: has Pettersson recorded a better season before than those three, the answer is yes.

But, as you know and as you pointed out in the goaltending thread, players do have great seasons and then decline, often permanently. So, why is Pettersson guaranteed to do better there, especially since we have no recent evidence of him being superior? I mean, if it's fair to dog on Jarry for having only one previously good season and then having a slow start to this one, what do we do with Pettersson, who's playing awful while the rest of the team is coming together? My point is simply that, while Pettersson has had moments of better play in previous seasons, we're not seeing that now. So, why are we assuming that he's better at the moment?

 

[Empoleon8771]

What?
The team is a contender because it has Sid, Geno and Letang. We can’t actually make THEM younger but the rest of the team is young.

No one else who is core is even 30.

And the team shouldn't be looking to trade already young players because of people overreacting to a bad 10 game sample size.

This team needs to continue adding young and talented players. Trading a young and talented player because people are overreacting isn't how you do that.

 

[HandshakeLine]

And the team shouldn't be looking to trade already young players because of people overreacting to a bad 10 game sample size.

This team needs to continue adding young and talented players. Trading a young and talented player because people are overreacting isn't how you do that.

So, this just a players you like thing, or what?