Pittsburgh Penguins Prospects Thread

[Peat]

I never understood why we've never heard more hype with POJ. If he was a Penguins 1st rounder in 2017, people would be penciling him into the top-4 as a Pettersson replacement in the near future and treating him like another Maatta/Morrow prospect. Instead, it seems like he was overshadowed in the Kessel deal and never got the hype he should have.

Iirc the scouting reports when we got him were fairly muted, with some questioning whether he had higher than 3rd pairing potential - safe reading of the game, limited upside. If he's got the offensive potential that Vellucci/Kingerski seem to be talking about, that starts to become pretty interesting.

 

[WayneSid9987]

I didn't really watch the AHL this season. Did you see him a lot?

Same actually for his AHL action but i loved what i seen in the rookie tourney and pre-season.
Other than that i followed along with his mono recovery in Wilkes and was just hoping to hear/see good things.
From my persepective, he was just getting into the swing of things when the season was cancelled. He'd recovered from mono and was starting to put up points/play on the top pair.
So to hear what Velluci is saying about him is just the cherry on top for me in terms of a solid development year even if it was cut short.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

Yeah, POJ looked great in camp and preseason. Could skate and make a great pass out of the D-zone. I watched zero WBS games this season though.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

Iirc the scouting reports when we got him were fairly muted, with some questioning whether he had higher than 3rd pairing potential - safe reading of the game, limited upside. If he's got the offensive potential that Vellucci/Kingerski seem to be talking about, that starts to become pretty interesting.

Yeah, it’s that and his weight. People have been really turned off by him being so skinny and then he promptly missed time with mono. Skinny and safe don’t really get people excited about a player and his start to the season didn’t change that. A lot of people also weren’t predicting Dumoulin being so important either and he took time to develop. It shouldn’t be a surprise that he’s not being watched like a hawk. I think Dumoulin who has any ability to shoot the puck is an optimistic upside, tbh. Him being a 2nd pairing D would be a huge win and could give them a lot of mobility in the top 4 even if he’s not a real offensive threat.

The weight thing is over stated, imo. Pettersson is a beanpole who handles the NHL just fine because he’s strong enough to get by and the rest of his game is good enough. It’s more if he can play D and move the puck at the NHL level while physically surviving. He doesn’t need to pack on 30lb to be viable.

 

[Gumbercules]

POJ had a fairly underwhelming finish to his junior career. Just didn't dominate like you expect a guy with that pedigree to. In particular his offensive game didn't grow as significantly as his early years would have suggested, and he was part of a Drummondville team that was viewed as a memorial cup contender, but lost earlier than expected in the playoffs due to a number of players underachieving (including POJ). Therefore at the time of the trade, his stock was probably in a bit of a lull, and while he didn't have a bad year in the AHL, he certainly didn't set the league on fire so that we all had to stand up and take notice (or so it seems, as I didn't see any WBS games).

Some of his peers in the Q seemingly surpassed him when looking at them from a distance (Gawanke, Dobson, Spence, McIsaac, Beaudin). However I don't really think POJ projects as a primarily offensive defenceman, as he plays more of all around game and doesn't really have that upper echelon offensive talent. In my view he would be better than those other Q d-men listed, with the exception of Dobson obviously. I saw him quite a bit when he was in Charlottetown and we played them in the playoffs when he was in Drummodville, so I've seen a fair amount of him over the years. Seems like a good comparable for him would be a poor man's Bouwmeester.

However, the point Speaking Moistly makes about Dumoulin sneaking up on us all a bit is valid for POJ as well (and many other defensive D-men). Unless you are watching these guys intently often, it's really hard to get a feel for how good they actually are since they often don't jump off the page at you in any given game.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Olund contract being terminated. Not sure of details, whether it’s mutual, etc.... just read headline. I once thought he could maybe be a tweener like AJ or Blandisi are lmao.

POJ had a fairly underwhelming finish to his junior career. Just didn't dominate like you expect a guy with that pedigree to. In particular his offensive game didn't grow as significantly as his early years would have suggested, and he was part of a Drummondville team that was viewed as a memorial cup contender, but lost earlier than expected in the playoffs due to a number of players underachieving (including POJ). Therefore at the time of the trade, his stock was probably in a bit of a lull, and while he didn't have a bad year in the AHL, he certainly didn't set the league on fire so that we all had to stand up and take notice (or so it seems, as I didn't see any WBS games).

Some of his peers in the Q seemingly surpassed him when looking at them from a distance (Gawanke, Dobson, Spence, McIsaac, Beaudin). However I don't really think POJ projects as a primarily offensive defenceman, as he plays more of all around game and doesn't really have that upper echelon offensive talent. In my view he would be better than those other Q d-men listed, with the exception of Dobson obviously. I saw him quite a bit when he was in Charlottetown and we played them in the playoffs when he was in Drummodville, so I've seen a fair amount of him over the years. Seems like a good comparable for him would be a poor man's Bouwmeester.

However, the point Speaking Moistly makes about Dumoulin sneaking up on us all a bit is valid for POJ as well (and many other defensive D-men). Unless you are watching these guys intently often, it's really hard to get a feel for how good they actually are since they often don't jump off the page at you in any given game.

Only thing I hope for with POJ (as someone who’s seen almost zero of him) is breakout/puck rushing ability. Just someone who can carry the mail a bit. Don’t care if he’s some big offensive threat or scores points, but it’d be nice to have someone on the backend who can be the primary PMD on a 2nd or 3rd pairing as opposed to another Pettersson.

 

[Peat]

Olund contract being terminated. Not sure of details, whether it’s mutual, etc.... just read headline. I once thought he could maybe be a tweener like AJ or Blandisi are lmao.

I am Jack's more or less total lack of surprise. Ah well.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

Olund contract being terminated. Not sure of details, whether it’s mutual, etc.... just read headline. I once thought he could maybe be a tweener like AJ or Blandisi are lmao.

I’m pretty sure it has to be mutually terminated unless the contract was breached.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I’m pretty sure it has to be mutually terminated unless the contract was breached.

The way it sounds is that they were "clearing a contract spot..."

Is there another UFA prospect out there that the Penguins are targeting?

 

[Speaking Moistly]

The way it sounds is that they were "clearing a contract spot..."

Is there another UFA prospect out there that the Penguins are targeting?

It’s definitely what they’re doing but I’m not sure if it’s for anything in particular. Right now they’re using 47 contract slots and have a number of pending of UFAs for next season. It might just be some house cleaning for flexibility later.

Or give us Maniscalco, universe.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Got bored and watched some Poulin and Legare highlights again.

The more I think about it, the more at peace I am with the Pens going into next season with the wings they have and seeing if one of those 2 can force their hand in camp. I still have doubts about any prospective top 6 winger whose skating isn't a strength working on this team, but they both have elements the team could use and their weaknesses could be compensated for by speed on the opposite wing.

Plus they both seem like workers who'll put in the time and effort to improve, even if they're never great skaters.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Got bored and watched some Poulin and Legare highlights again.

The more I think about it, the more at peace I am with the Pens going into next season with the wings they have and seeing if one of those 2 can force their hand in camp. I still have doubts about any prospective top 6 winger whose skating isn't a strength working on this team, but they both have elements the team could use and their weaknesses could be compensated for by speed on the opposite wing.

Plus they both seem like workers who'll put in the time and effort to improve, even if they're never great skaters.

I feel like there's been way more successful wings who have skating issues, than great skating wings who have hockey IQ or talent issues. But that might just be the lingering psychic damage from Rico Fata and Konstantin Koltsov.

The point being, I feel like a below-average skating (but talented) winger might be able to learn to work within their limits or to improve their skating to average, but a great skating wing with questions about talent and IQ can't improve much in that direction.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I feel like there's been way more successful wings who have skating issues, than great skating wings who have hockey IQ or talent issues. But that might just be the lingering psychic damage from Rico Fata and Konstantin Koltsov.

The point being, I feel like a below-average skating (but talented) winger might be able to learn to work within their limits or to improve their skating to average, but a great skating wing with questions about talent and IQ can't improve much in that direction.

I dunno. I lean towards wingers usually needing to be at least "good" skaters to succeed on scoring lines in today's NHL, particularly in the Pens system.

There are obviously exceptions to the rule like Stone or DeBrincat, and guys like Simon and Hornqvist have managed to do okay here, so it's not absolute.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I agree in that I don't think sub-standard skating wingers have a chance here. I'm just saying, it seems like it's easier to get poor skating wingers to improve than it is getting untalented wingers to get more creative and skilled.

 

[Peat]

I agree in that I don't think sub-standard skating wingers have a chance here. I'm just saying, it seems like it's easier to get poor skating wingers to improve than it is getting untalented wingers to get more creative and skilled.

Horny, Kunitz's ghost, ZAR - they've all done fine here (with regards to any other limitations they might have). I don't want to have a whole clutch of them but this isn't just a speed demon's paradise.

Besides, more pertinently, both Poulin and Legare didn't look out of place pace wise in pre-season.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I'd put ZAR and Horny and the late Kunitz more into the "average skater" category (though Kunitz could motor when he was younger), tbh.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I don't think it makes sense to pair Legare and Poulin in the same group when it comes to skating, I feel like Poulin is a clearly superior skater to Legare.

 

[Peat]

I'd put ZAR and Horny and the late Kunitz more into the "average skater" category (though Kunitz could motor when he was younger), tbh.

What are you considering as sub-standard for the NHL then?

 

[Randy Butternubs]

California Consumer Privacy Act (CCPA) | TribLIVE.com

California Consumer Privacy Act (CCPA) | TribLIVE.com

The article is about Will Reilly, not sure why the link changes the title.

Really, not much in here.

 

[HandshakeLine]

What are you considering as sub-standard for the NHL then?

Different positions, I know, but Maatta and Gudbranson were definitely sub-par. Lucic as he stands today, Pavelski.

I think having sense enough to keep up with the play ends up compensating a lot, and not just for blueliners. That's what's really hurting someone like ZAR, not necessarily his speed. He's just not thinking the game fast enough and we notice that any time he's bumped up the lineup.

 

[Peat]

Different positions, I know, but Maatta and Gudbranson were definitely sub-par. Lucic as he stands today, Pavelski.

I think having sense enough to keep up with the play ends up compensating a lot, and not just for blueliners. That's what's really hurting someone like ZAR, not necessarily his speed. He's just not thinking the game fast enough and we notice that any time he's bumped up the lineup.

I thought Gudzilla skated well enough tbh. Could certainly motor forwards and had enough skating to be difficult to go around the outside of.

But yeah, okay, if we're using Maatta as subpar, then yeah, not much space for wingers like that here. Pretty sure Legare and Poulin are already better than poor Olli, bless him.

Also... disagree on ZAR. I think he thinks the game pretty well, which explains his shiny defensive stats and the fact his production when deployed high was actually pretty strong until this season. He also got a lot of glorious chances this season and absolutely blew most of them. I actually think his brain is probably his strongest attribute.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Guys, does anybody know why Cap friendly has Joseph Masonius's draft rights as indefinitely belonging to us? He seems to be the rarest of rare North Americans (playing in North America) with that distinction.

Thanks in advance if anyone knows.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

Guys, does anybody know why Cap friendly has Joseph Masonius's draft rights as indefinitely belonging to us? He seems to be the rarest of rare North Americans (playing in North America) with that distinction.

Thanks in advance if anyone knows.

It's certainly peculiar:

"It's not clear what happened to Masonius. He left school a year early with the intentions of turning pro in 2018-19 and signed an AHL-level deal with Wilkes-Barre, including an invite to Pittsburgh's camp. He left the first day of Pittsburgh's camp with an apparent injury and never returned. He was released from his contract with Wilkes-Barre in November without playing a game.

Masonius signed an ECHL deal with South Carolina days after being released, played one game, then was released from that contract. Over a month later on Dec. 27, he signed another ECHL contract with Manchester, where he played 12 games to finish the season."

Penguins prospect pool breakdown: Defensemen, Part 2

Sounds like it is a combo of of leaving college early, signing with WBS, and not playing for WBS.

The more I dig, the more it seems like he's just difficult:

2016 NHL draft pick Masonius inks deal with Royals

Never played for Reading.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Also, sounds like something's going on behind the scenes with a player getting released that quickly from two separate contracts. Yikes.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

Yeah, not looking too good.

Leaves college early for an ATO with WBS. Then signs a contract with WBS, barely attends the summer camp, and is then released from WBS.

Soon after that he signs with SC, plays a game with them, and is then released from SC. But then he signs with Manchester and ends his season there.

That summer he signs with Reading, doesn't play for Reading (edit: he was released by Reading right before the season started), ends up signing with Norfolk even though I can't find any source for this (edit: signed mid-November), plays for them until he's traded to Greenville where he only plays 3 games. His tenure with Greenville is cut short due to COVID.