Confirmed Signing with Link: [PIT] Pens re-sign Guentzel (5 years, $6M AAV)

[Riptide]

"one or two people" Even you must know how much of bull- err....
Naah.. I won't continue this discussions as it's off-topic.

What I'm curious is how does Pitt's cap handle this? Brassard and Sheahan probably walk as UFA. It does leave very little cap space even after those two if I'm reading NHLNumbers correctly.

Brassard walking as a FA (if not sooner) and us dumping Oleksiak for whatever solves the cap issues. With this contract we'll have around 4m to sort out a 3c (assuming we move Oleksiak and do not take back any salary).

The lineup would look something like this:

Guentzel - Crosby - Hornqvist
Pearson - Malkin - Kessel
Simon - XXXXX - Rust
ZAR - Blueger - XXXXX
XXXXX - XXXXX

Dumoulin - Letang
Maatta - Schultz
Riikola - Johnson
Pettersson

Murray/X

That's 75.25m. If you figure the depth guys make 750k, that's 78.25m and the only piece missing is a #3c. The issue is beyond next season when Schultz and Murray need new contracts and depth guys need raises. But this doesn't really cause any issues for next season.

 

[Riptide]

And what if he's not better?

Do you not see where contracts are going? Cost certainty here for the rest of Crosby's career (or at least the best parts of it) are a good thing. Even if he regresses a little off of his 75pt pace to a 60pt player - that's fine and will still be a good contract.

 

[Icebreakers]

I mean you

What the heck are you talking about? Guentzel played a full year last year...what’s this nonsense about not enough games to hit 60 haha and then you mention Matthews while never mentioning Crosby at all. Great spin.

Mark Letestu’s playoff PPG was better than McDavid’s when the Oilers made a run...is Letestu better than McDavid haha

I responded to you saying he plays with Crosby ...but you are the one who failed to mention that he plays with Matthews so linemates are a wash.

You can bump this thread at the end of the season if you think im wrong.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Not a star, not a beast along the boards, can get pushed around and washed out of the play.

But man can he score. Legitimately one of the best thinkers of the game. Exceptionally smart player.

This is a great deal for PIT.

 

[Sol]

Are you aware of who Jake Guentzel is?

Sid the Kids beneficiary.

 

[ColbyChaos]

Ehlers is not a clearly better player and it's laughable to suggest Larkin is.

Look at who they both play with and say Larkin is worse, despite Larkin having a better season with worse linemates, actually being the driver of his line instead of a being a passenger, being better defensively, being faster, being a center, actually elevating his linemates production while Guentzal was invisible last season when he was used as a center.

Nylander produces significantly less at ES than Guentzel does, also plays with an elite center and has been a dud in the playoffs over his career. Not really seeing what makes Nylander a definitively better player than Guentzel here.

Yes, yes, only Nylander is the one playing with an elite center...

 

[Empoleon8771]

Yes, yes, only Nylander is the one playing with an elite center...

Reading is hard I guess. Did you miss the word "also"? It's really not that hard to read you know.

And on Larkin, I think the comparison is with 2 very different players, so I don't think it's worth looking into. Like you said, Larkin is a center and a line driver. Guentzel is a winger and a complementary piece. Guentzel produces more in terms of per 60 stats but Larkin is the better all-around player.

 

[domaug]

Are you aware of who Jake Guentzel is?

judging by their reply, no, they don't.

 

[Beauner]

Sid the Kids beneficiary.

I must've missed all of his other wingers throughout his career scoring at Gretzky-level paces in the playoffs

 

[ColbyChaos]

Reading is hard I guess. Did you miss the word "also"? It's really not that hard to read you know.

And on Larkin, I think the comparison is with 2 very different players, so I don't think it's worth looking into. Like you said, Larkin is a center and a line driver. Guentzel is a winger and a complementary piece. Guentzel produces more in terms of per 60 stats but Larkin is the better all-around player.

So guentzal is better in a easily skewable stat and Larkin has better real numbers got it. Why post all of that and start backtracking when earlier you were pretty confident in saying Larkin even being suggested as better is laughable.

Ehlers is not a clearly better player and it's laughable to suggest Larkin is.

So which is it? If anything its laughable to suggest Guentzal is better than Larkin since one actually carries play with awful linemates and the other feeds off of Sid.

 

[Empoleon8771]

So guentzal is better in a easily skewable stat and Larkin has better real numbers got it. Why post all of that and start backtracking when earlier you were pretty confident in saying Larkin even being suggested as better is laughable.

So are you not going to address the "also" part that you conveniently ignored?

No, Guentzel is pretty clearly better offensively speaking statistically. Larkin is just more of a line driver. Seeing how you can't even spell Guentzel's name right, I'm not sure I should take your opinion on him seriously.

 

[ColbyChaos]

I must've missed all of his other wingers throughout his career scoring at Gretzky-level paces in the playoffs

Yea because a 25 and 29% shooting percentage is totally sustainable

 

[Jacob]

It's not like Guentzel just stands around waiting for Sid to do all the work and get him the puck in a scoring area. They work off each other. Guentzel plays a complete game. And he's already proven to be a big game player.

He's comprable to Zucker & Schwartz and their deals were almost identical.

 

[ColbyChaos]

So are you not going to address the "also" part that you conveniently ignored?

No, Guentzel is pretty clearly better offensively speaking statistically. Larkin is just more of a line driver. Seeing how you can't even spell Guentzel's name right, I'm not sure I should take your opinion on him seriously.

How is he even better offensively, statistically Larkin is scoring more, has been doing it with worse teammates and is on a worse team. It really isnt a debate Beavis isnt as good as Larkin in any facet of the game. Also back in the real world 36 pts is better than 33pts

 

[Empoleon8771]

How is he even better offensively, statistically Larkin is scoring more, has been doing it with worse teammates and is on a worse team. It really isnt a debate Beavis isnt as good as Larkin in any facet of the game. Also back in the real world 36 pts is better than 33pts

Because dating back to Guentzel's first game, he has kicked the crap out of Larkin in terms of production? It's not that hard. Guentzel has 76 goals and 156 points in 195 total games in his career, with the regular season and playoffs combined. Larkin in the last 3 years has 48 goals and 131 points in 200 games.

Even if you just look at the last 2 seasons, Guentzel has 102 points in his last 130 games. Larkin is at 99 points in his last 120 games. The difference isn't that significant, Larkin has an advantage but it's not a big one. If you look at any sample size greater than 2 years, Guentzel kicks the crap out of Larkin offensively because Larkin had a terrible 2016-2017.

 

[AuraSphere]

I was going to say good deal and leave, and then I read something about Guentzel > Larkin?

Don't kid yourself, Larkin is pretty elite, he's just on a trash team. His defensive game is insane let alone his offensive.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I was going to say good deal and leave, and then I read something about Guentzel > Larkin?

Don't kid yourself, Larkin is pretty elite, he's just on a trash team. His defensive game is insane let alone his offensive.

When I made the original comment, I overemphasized Larkin's 2016-2017 and included too much of that. Larkin is a lot better defensively and they're comparable offensive players over the last 2 years, I was just looking at a sample size that had Guentzel as a significantly better offensive player originally.

Guentzel had more points through 40 games in 2016-2017 than Larkin had in 80 games, so if you include that year, it would skew the data towards Guentzel.

 

[AuraSphere]

When I made the original comment, I overemphasized Larkin's 2016-2017 and included too much of that. Larkin is a lot better defensively and they're comparable offensive players over the last 2 years, I was just looking at a sample size that had Guentzel as a significantly better offensive player originally.

Guentzel had more points through 40 games in 2016-2017 than Larkin had in 80 games, so if you include that year, it would skew the data towards Guentzel.

Look man, I'm not a fan of either team, just a third party that loves the game. Larkin is so underrated it's getting kind of ridiculous. If you just look at stats, it's clearly gonna skew data.

I respect that you came forward and owned up to your original comment. Cheers

 

[ColbyChaos]

Because dating back to Guentzel's first game, he has kicked the crap out of Larkin in terms of production? It's not that hard. Guentzel has 76 goals and 156 points in 195 total games in his career, with the regular season and playoffs combined. Larkin in the last 3 years has 48 goals and 131 points in 200 games.

And Larkin has been better last season and this season your strawman hinges on including Larkin's worst season ever to drag his numbers down despite being better than Jake ever was at 20-22.

-Player A gets constant minutes with Sidney Crosby is getting outscored by a supposedly worse offensive player that has Abdelkaider and Nyquist as his linemates

-Argues Player A is better offensively despite being with better linemates and even outscored by player B

I dont see your logic here. Guentzel gets to benefit off better teammates while putting up less points this season and last season and that somehow makes him better offensively than Larkin is who has been better or at worst only having a slight of an edge with worse talent? Jake isnt better in any facet of the game than Larkin.

 

[DoobieDubas]

i actually dont like the deal but i dont watch the guy enough to really know

 

[Sol]

I must've missed all of his other wingers throughout his career scoring at Gretzky-level paces in the playoffs

Lmao the next Gretzky. Glad we're not over doing it.

 

[Tom Hanks]

i actually dont like the deal but i dont watch the guy enough to really know

I watch him a lot. It’s a good deal for both him and the team. He doesn’t leech of Crosby he adds to the line. He can set up or finish the play and he can think at Crosby’s level. Also money in the playoffs.

 

[sd1976]

I'd say just look at Guentzel's last 14 PO games... but I don't think that would make you feel any better. I mean he had 10g/21pts in 12 PO games last season...

See above post... Nylander is the more valuable and skilled player, and it’s not even close.

 

[Empoleon8771]

See above post... Nylander is the more valuable and skilled player, and it’s not even close.

I love when people just make claims without any evidence to back them up, and then say stuff like "it's not even close". Can you provide any sort of support for this?

For reference, Guentzel in his entire regular season and playoff career has 76 goals and 156 points in 195 games, 65 goals and 133 points of which are at ES. His career pace is 32 goals and 66 points per 82 games, with 27 ES goals and 56 ES points per 82 games. Nylander over his career has 50 goals and 145 points in 207 games, with 35 ES goals and 103 ES points. His career pace is 20 goals and 57 points per 82 games, with 14 ES goals and 41 ES points per 82 games.

 

[TorontoTrades]

Pretty good looking deal. There is a little risk attached to Guentzel because he’s always played with good players, but I think this will work out nicely for the Pens

That arguement shouldn't carry any weight since it means nothing. He'll be with Crosby or Malkin for those 5 seasons so all that matters is he plays well with good players.