Speculation: Pietrangelo's future (reports: to go to FA)

[bleedblue1223]

I know it's hard to knock Army down since he brought a Cup here, but if Pietrangelo leaves and all these reports are true, that's the ultimate gut punch as a fan IMO, similar to the situation around Pronger when he left, the difference being that Pietrangelo captained us to a Cup. If anyone deserves a contract that sinks this team, it's him, instead we could end up with some brutal years from Schenn and Faulk at the end of their deals.

 

[Note Worthy]

Yeah, if DA screws this up it's going to be an epic failure. It's one thing if Pietrangelo came in demanding $11 million per year or something but, if the reports are true, Pietrangelo is being more than reasonable enough to get something done.

 

[67Blues]

I still think Petro ends up somewhere that no one is really expecting like the Jets. Blues will pretty much run this same team next year, let the contracts fall by the wayside, then start a big retool/mini-rebuild at the TDL next season. Covid helped really close the window on this team.

 

[Note Worthy]

I still think Petro ends up somewhere that no one is really expecting like the Jets. Blues will pretty much run this same team next year, let the contracts fall by the wayside, then start a big retool/mini-rebuild at the TDL next season. Covid helped really close the window on this team.

I'm not saying they won't do that, but that would be incredibly stupid. You have O'Reilly, Schenn, Binnington (hopefully), Schwartz, Parayko in their prime (I'll leave out Tarasenko since the injury leaves him a question mark) and they're just going to pack it in? I don't think there's any way they do that and waste all those guys' prime years. I just don't see it.

Moves can be made to sign Pietrangelo and keep being Cup contenders for another 3-5 years.

 

[The Note]

We are essentially only getting one side of the story as all of these leaks are assuredly coming from Meahan and Newport. However, it certainly doesn't look good on DA right now, and if Petro walks because he chose to prioritize virtually every other FA over Petro it's inexcusable.

 

[Blueston]

All of this chatter is from Petro agents. They screwed up. Schenn you remember fired them because he wanted deal done. Petro wasn’t made last priority by Blues. Petro is unsigned bc they thought waiting would create urgency and he would get more. Then COVID-19 came and now there is less money out there. So they are using media to pressure Blues. Don’t fall for it. Pretty sure Army won’t. Petro wants to sit here and Army will get it done for less than most thought possible.

 

[MissouriMook]

Some stuff from Elliotte Friedman



31 Thoughts: Players make unified anti-racism statement from bubble - Sportsnet.ca

There is some sizzle but not a lot of steak in those comments. This is a process that cuts both ways. The implication of "stalled talks" is that it is the GM causing it when it could very easily have been the agent's position to stall to get his client a better deal as a two-time defending Cup winning Captain (which obviously did not happen) and potential Norris finalist (nope on that, too).

There is no guarantee that Army didn't make these other deals with Schenn, Faulk and Scandella to avoid getting caught losing more than one player while his prime candidate for re-signing was dragging their feet through the agent, though I believe the Faulk re-signing was a handshake agreement tied to the trade. There is no guarantee either (especially given the aforementioned firing by Schenn) that the agent is being entirely above board with his client, and is now attempting to deflect the issues back on the GM instead of admitting that they were holding out hope for a huge bump in the player's value this season that never materialized due to the COVID interruption and what happened this season on the ice.

TL;DR - Don't believe everything you read.

 

[JoshFromMO]

There is some sizzle but not a lot of steak in those comments. This is a process that cuts both ways. The implication of "stalled talks" is that it is the GM causing it when it could very easily have been the agent's position to stall to get his client a better deal as a two-time defending Cup winning Captain (which obviously did not happen) and potential Norris finalist (nope on that, too).

There is no guarantee that Army didn't make these other deals with Schenn, Faulk and Scandella to avoid getting caught losing more than one player while his prime candidate for re-signing was dragging their feet through the agent, though I believe the Faulk re-signing was a handshake agreement tied to the trade. There is no guarantee either (especially given the aforementioned firing by Schenn) that the agent is being entirely above board with his client, and is now attempting to deflect the issues back on the GM instead of admitting that they were holding out hope for a huge bump in the player's value this season that never materialized due to the COVID interruption and what happened this season on the ice.

TL;DR - Don't believe everything you read.

I could have sworn both army and Petro both said they talked in the off season a little bit and decided to finish the season before working out a deal and just let the captain focus on the game

 

[Alklha]

The reports should be taken with a pinch of salt... there is no doubt that it's all coming from Meehan/Newport.

However, it's not like it's all new information. We knew back in October that there were no talks between the sides over the summer and that the first meeting was at the start of October when the Blues went to Toronto on a road trip. So it's a safe assumption that Armstrong was dealing with the likes of Faulk and Schenn before looking at Pietrangelo. Immidiately after those talks, Armstrong was in the media saying how we have wealthy players, but no really rich players and that's the model we see to have continuing success. So his position on the ask is pretty clear, it's just whether we believe the ask was $9m and the Blues wouldn't go above $8m.

Meehan/Newport will know that there is little benefit to drag the negotiations out over the season. When a player is as established as Pietrangelo and looking for a long term contract? One outstanding season isn't going to significantly change the AAV. One significant injury absolutely could. Unless a top player wants to test UFA, or is genuinely undecided, then getting the security of the deal done early is a benefit that they typically want.

Edit: Also, talking about players liking security... let's not forget how much of an advantage we still have with the ability to offer the eighth year.

Eight years at $8.5m is a $68m contract that he knows he's getting. It's going to take a cap hit of over $9.7m for anyone else to be able to offer him a $68m contract. Even if it is $8.25m, that's still going to be almost $9.5m AAV for anyone to match the total dollars of the contract.

While the insiders are out there talking about teams looking to cut payroll and things like that, the teams that are going to be largely immune to that are the larger markets. Those markets tend to have higher taxes as well.

 

[67Blues]

I'm not saying they won't do that, but that would be incredibly stupid. You have O'Reilly, Schenn, Binnington (hopefully), Schwartz, Parayko in their prime (I'll leave out Tarasenko since the injury leaves him a question mark) and they're just going to pack it in? I don't think there's any way they do that and waste all those guys' prime years. I just don't see it.

Moves can be made to sign Pietrangelo and keep being Cup contenders for another 3-5 years.

I'd rather not think about it, but if this current core minus Petro absolutely tanks next season, then I could see many of those assets being shipped out to accelerate a rebuild. You could build around ROR, Parayko, Thomas and a few others, but if you look at becoming competitive during a rebuild roughly 3-4 years, a lot of those guys are past their prime.

 

[Oberyn]

I've never seen Parayko as a true #1, his puck moving ability just isn't up to the level of other #1s around the league. A lot of times he'll just flip it off the glass or lob the puck out of the zone, whereas Pietrangelo could use his poise to look for a better outlet. I don't see a world where Parayko/Faulk can make up for the absence of Pietrangelo.

 

[SaintLouHaintBlue]

All I'm going to say is that.. it would be pretty dissapointing to see Pietrangelo to walk.
First time I ever ponied up for a jersey and poof.

 

[Spear]

All I'm going to say is that.. it would be pretty dissapointing to see Pietrangelo to walk.
First time I ever ponied up for a jersey and poof.

At least now we know who to REALLY blame!

 

[KrisLetAngry]

Not a blues fan have friend that's a blues fan.
Happy y'all won the cup cheering you guys on obviously 3 guys from Saskatchewan easy choice.

Anyways for Petro isn't it kinda crazy he may have had his best or 2nd best year as a defensemen. However because of covid he's probably screwed out of 10 million.

I figure 8.5 million for 8 years or 7 years gets the job done.

9 mill maybe for other teams if he leaves.

 

[SaintLouHaintBlue]

At least now we know who to REALLY blame!

Haha
That being said, I believe good things will happen.

 

[sfvega]

I know it's hard to knock Army down since he brought a Cup here, but if Pietrangelo leaves and all these reports are true, that's the ultimate gut punch as a fan IMO, similar to the situation around Pronger when he left, the difference being that Pietrangelo captained us to a Cup. If anyone deserves a contract that sinks this team, it's him, instead we could end up with some brutal years from Schenn and Faulk at the end of their deals.

The Schenn deal I have no problem with. The Faulk deal was completely out of left field, but not really terrible. The extension was something that seemed like Army just got drunk. If Petro leaves because of that deal, it's a gigantic black mark on Army's legacy here which was largely unblemished before. Sure, Jake got a little too much money, the Osh deal wasn't good, and we committed way too early on Lehtera. But none of those deals set us back the way the Faulk deal has the potential to.

 

[Alklha]

The Schenn deal I have no problem with. The Faulk deal was completely out of left field, but not really terrible. The extension was something that seemed like Army just got drunk. If Petro leaves because of that deal, it's a gigantic black mark on Army's legacy here which was largely unblemished before. Sure, Jake got a little too much money, the Osh deal wasn't good, and we committed way too early on Lehtera. But none of those deals set us back the way the Faulk deal has the potential to.

Nobody could have envisaged the COVID situation when we signed Faulk, and all signs pointed to us not having a major issue having the space to sign Pietrangelo.

The Scandella signing is a bigger issue here. We were over a month into the stoppage at that point, Armstrong either had a very good idea we were looking at a flat cap or it was all uncertainty. Why is he signing Scandella to a $13m deal? He is a player that was traded for scraps just before we desperately needed a replacement for Bouwmeester. If the cap is flat, Scandella is a prime candidate to get squeezed and even more so if he wants to be on a good team.

Even ignoring that aspect... if we didn't sign Scandella then we would be sitting with ~$5.8m in cap space with three open roster spots. Just moving a package of Dunn & Allen and buying out Steen, would give us ~$12.5m in cap space with five roster spots open. Pietrangelo ($8.5m), DLR ($900k), Husso ($750k) & Mikkola ($788k) would leave us with ~$1.5m in cap space to find an experienced defenseman.

That's us just having to make one trade, and using a piece that would have a lot of interest around the League and still net us a good return. We're not having to deal from a position of weakness in that scenario.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Yeah, Faulk and an $84M cap is a reasonable situation to easily make room for Pietrangelo. Once a flat cap became plausible, Army proceeded to sign Scandella. That's the move that really threw the situation off. A flat cap means making the necessary trades become harder, and then he made it necessary to make even more moves with Scandella signing.

 

[sfvega]

Nobody could have envisaged the COVID situation when we signed Faulk, and all signs pointed to us not having a major issue having the space to sign Pietrangelo.

That's kind of a copout though. Just because him overextending with the Faulk deal was more accpetable and easier to get out of before, doesn't mean that he didn't overextend himself and paint himself into a corner. At the time, people on the main board were wondering how we were going to sign Petro after committing so much money to Parayko and Faulk already. The Faulk extension came at a very pivotal time where we knew Petro negotiations were (and are) large and looming, and it was a total head-scratcher to the point that many of us thought it meant that Petro made it known that he wasn't going to re-sign.

I agree completely with the Scandella extension, it was a weird deal as well. We really seemed to be bidding against ourselves in both the trade for him and the extension. I'm still not sold on the guy, and we obviously jumped the gun on his deal. But the Faulk deal was a backbreaker. It put us behind the 8-ball in terms of space to extend Petro and put our ability to re-sign him entirely into the hands of other teams. Before that deal, we could conceivably have enough space to meet most any ask just in one buyout alone.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Only thing that Army might have for him, is if Petro signs a deal where it feels like it was pre-determined. Like when Stastny came to St. Louis or Shattenkirk to New York, even Tavares to Toronto. Hell, Toronto is close to creating space for him, even though it would be dumb of them to go even more top-heavy.

 

[The Note]

The Faulk contract was bad the moment it happened and has looked worse since. Handing a good not great player who is entirely redundant on your team $6.5 million AAV while you know Pietrangelo needs a new deal never made any sense -- COVID or no COVID.

 

[TurgPavs]

These "Leaks" are coming from Newport. JR reported that something happened with Petro's camp and the Blues. Last year it was speculated that Newport leaded reports of a Petro to Toronto deal involving Nylander. Then last fall, it was speculated that Newport leaked reports of Army meeting with Newport in Toronto while the Blues where in town.
AFTER Josi signed you started hearing that Petro wanted the same amount. That was last fall.
Ask yourself this, Do you really think Army trades for and signs Faulk to that extension without having an idea what Petro and his agent is asking for? Do you think he signs Schenn and Scandy to those contracts without having an idea what Petro is asking for?
Petro signed a deal a 7 year extension, after a short hold out. in 2013. For 4 of those years he was paid top 8 among NHL defense men in actual salary, the other 3 years I believe he was in the top 15.
IMO Petro/Newport wanted top 3 money from the Blues, 10+ million per on an 8 year deal and after Josi signed his deal they changed their tune and wanted Josi comparable money. Now with current landscape they are leaking more and more "Numbers" and pushing the whole Petro wants to stay in St. Louis narrative. Now after deals have been signed and trades to the roster made, Newport is pushing this agenda that Army is being unreasonable?

 

[Blueston]

These "Leaks" are coming from Newport. JR reported that something happened with Petro's camp and the Blues. Last year it was speculated that Newport leaded reports of a Petro to Toronto deal involving Nylander. Then last fall, it was speculated that Newport leaked reports of Army meeting with Newport in Toronto while the Blues where in town.
AFTER Josi signed you started hearing that Petro wanted the same amount. That was last fall.
Ask yourself this, Do you really think Army trades for and signs Faulk to that extension without having an idea what Petro and his agent is asking for? Do you think he signs Schenn and Scandy to those contracts without having an idea what Petro is asking for?
Petro signed a deal a 7 year extension, after a short hold out. in 2013. For 4 of those years he was paid top 8 among NHL defense men in actual salary, the other 3 years I believe he was in the top 15.
IMO Petro/Newport wanted top 3 money from the Blues, 10+ million per on an 8 year deal and after Josi signed his deal they changed their tune and wanted Josi comparable money. Now with current landscape they are leaking more and more "Numbers" and pushing the whole Petro wants to stay in St. Louis narrative. Now after deals have been signed and trades to the roster made, Newport is pushing this agenda that Army is being unreasonable?

I think this is 100% right. Newport getting nervous bc they overplayed their hand. Perri wants to stay and Army holds the cards.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Even if all of that is true, Army still painted himself into a corner. It's not like Army is sitting with 8M in cap space waiting for Newport to come down in demands. Hell, it's not like he even has 4M in cap space and just has to make 1 trade to free up room. Army has to make multiple trades with players that really aren't that attractive to other teams. Other teams are going to have cap dumps that are still quality players, like Pittsburgh getting Kapanen.

 

[Blueston]

Even if all of that is true, Army still painted himself into a corner. It's not like Army is sitting with 8M in cap space waiting for Newport to come down in demands. Hell, it's not like he even has 4M in cap space and just has to make 1 trade to free up room. Army has to make multiple trades with players that really aren't that attractive to other teams. Other teams are going to have cap dumps that are still quality players, like Pittsburgh getting Kapanen.

Right. Like none of our guys were key contributors on best team in West this year. Or Cup last year. Who would want them?