Pietrangelo

[Celtic Note]

Something to consider is that those of us following the game in the 90's got to see a ton of Hall of Fame defensemen. I think someone else mentioned it in this thread or another, but there are not many, if any, of those guys today. Lidstrom, Pronger, MacInnis, Borque, Blake, Neidermier, Stevens, etc. are not filling the ice for nearly half the teams in the league. Petro is still a top D in the league, but in the 90's he is probably a top 15-20 guy instead of a 5-10 guy and he is nowhere close to the Hall of Fame. That is just the times we are in. I also believe the overall quality of the average player is significantly higher now. So, with a higher average and lower elite bar, the talent gap is much smaller.

 

[RR10*]

Something to consider is that those of us following the game in the 90's got to see a ton of Hall of Fame defensemen. I think someone else mentioned it in this thread or another, but there are not many, if any, of those guys today. Lidstrom, Pronger, MacInnis, Borque, Blake, Neidermier, Stevens, etc. are not filling the ice for nearly half the teams in the league. Petro is still a top D in the league, but in the 90's he is probably a top 15-20 guy instead of a 5-10 guy and he is nowhere close to the Hall of Fame. That is just the times we are in. I also believe the overall quality of the average player is significantly higher now. So, with a higher average and lower elite bar, the talent gap is much smaller.

The bolded. Ofcourse. The overall quality is much better today so it's harder to stand out.

 

[PerryTurnbullfan]

Petro put on a lot of muscle this summer. I can't find the picture now, but I thought there was a shot of him at an event where he was jacked.

I still think Petro has a breakout year: Better physically + More aggressive system + another year older = a great season.

I think we'll really see Petro bloom after the season though, as next season the only thing he needs to work on (especially if we trade Shattenkirk) is getting used to his new size and learning how to shoot.

Yet he still gets outmuscled by Cogliano...I don't buy it. I just don't see him as having a strong core for a defenseman.

 

[RR10*]

Pietrangelo is better than last year for sure. But I'd wish he could be more dominant and take over games like some other elite D can. It's alarming when a rookie Parayko is outplaying the "elite" Pietrangelo.

 

[Dbrownss]

Pietrangelo is better than last year for sure. But I'd wish he could be more dominant and take over games like some other elite D can. It's alarming when a rookie Parayko is outplaying the "elite" Pietrangelo.

The thing Parayko is doing is simply putting the puck on net. We watch Pietrangelo try and get too fancy and the play dies. We've saw some excellent high risk plays from Pietrangelo and they are beautiful when it works BUT...they never seem to end up in the back of the net. He just needs to work at throwing the puck on net. He's increased his SOG tremendously so far...just isn't getting through the goalie.

I distinctly remember that goal against the lightening when he just flung the puck on net and picked the top corner. The guys what..25-26? He can still take a few steps.

 

[Vladys Gumption]

Pietrangelo is better than last year for sure. But I'd wish he could be more dominant and take over games like some other elite D can. It's alarming when a rookie Parayko is outplaying the "elite" Pietrangelo.

Parayko isn't outplaying Pietrangelo. He's exceeding expectations, but he's not carrying anywhere near the same defensive load.

 

[Vincenzo Arelliti]

Parayko isn't outplaying Pietrangelo. He's exceeding expectations, but he's not carrying anywhere near the same defensive load.

I'm the biggest Gooch fan this side of Parayko's gaze, but even I know that he can't replace Pietrangelo right now. No talk of any type of replacement for either Shatty or Petro until after this season.

 

[RR10*]

Parayko isn't outplaying Pietrangelo. He's exceeding expectations, but he's not carrying anywhere near the same defensive load.

Sorry but he is. It's not only an expectation thing. Parayko has been more noticeable on the ice. And the stats are in his favour:

Parayko
10 games, 7 points (4+3) +8

Pietrangelo
10 games, 4 points (0+4) +1

It's clear to me that Parayko has been the better one so far and it has nothing to do with the expectations. Nobody is saying that Parayko is the better defenseman, he isn't...yet. But he could be.

 

[KirkOut]

what if I told you that there's more to being a defenseman than point totals?

 

[RR10*]

The thing Parayko is doing is simply putting the puck on net. We watch Pietrangelo try and get too fancy and the play dies. We've saw some excellent high risk plays from Pietrangelo and they are beautiful when it works BUT...they never seem to end up in the back of the net. He just needs to work at throwing the puck on net. He's increased his SOG tremendously so far...just isn't getting through the goalie.

Agree. Too often he hesitates and takes too long to shoot instead of just going with the instincts. I think that's a confidence thing. He's also not been accurate and "cool" enough when he gets a scoring opportunity. Tonight he got a great pass from someone in the slot and he shoots a slapper in the goalies chest instead of taking a wrister.

 

[RR10*]

what if I told you that there's more to being a defenseman than point totals?

Didn't say it was only point totals. I bet Pietrangelo will pass him anyway. I'm saying Parayko has been more noticeable and a bigger factor in the games. And you can't prove me wrong. The stats are only adding to that fact.

 

[KirkOut]

Didn't say it was only point totals. I bet Pietrangelo will pass him anyway. I'm saying Parayko has been more noticeable and a bigger factor in the games. And you can't prove me wrong. The stats are only adding to that fact.

In terms of goals for I agree and of course the stats show that. In terms of goals against, I disagree and I'm not an advanced stat person so maybe someone smarter can help out. Our defense has been really good this year and AP has been the leader back there.

 

[RR10*]

In terms of goals for I agree and of course the stats show that. In terms of goals against, I disagree and I'm not an advanced stat person so maybe someone smarter can help out. Our defense has been really good this year and AP has been the leader back there.

They have been evenly good in the defensive zone, and Parayko has been clearly better in the offensive zone. Which means Parayko has been the better defenseman so far. You are just one of those guys who gets offensive when someone isn't all positive about Pietro. The difference is, Parayko has singlehandedly helped us to win games, while you can't say that about Pietro even if he's been solid.

 

[RR10*]

Now you will reply and say "but Pietro is facing tougher competition". Sure, but he hasn't played with Gunnarsson and Edmundson either

 

[KirkOut]

You say they've been equally good in the defensive zone, but what is that based on?

 

[RR10*]

You say they've been equally good in the defensive zone, but what is that based on?

Based on what I've seen in these 10 games. Both have been very good with a few minor mistakes from both.

 

[rumrokh]

You say they've been equally good in the defensive zone, but what is that based on?

You can't prove him wrong. All you have to do is say that and you win the argument.

 

[KirkOut]

Based on what I've seen in these 10 games. Both have been very good with a few minor mistakes from both.

ok you're right

 

[Vincenzo Arelliti]

Petro in the defensive and neutral zone >> Parayko

Parayko in the offensive zone > Pietrangelo

Parayko is functioning (well) as our OFD - he's playing Shatty's role and doing pretty well. Parayko, at this point, has not shown that he can play better defense than Shatty, and he definitely hasn't shown better defense than Petro. Parayko is closest to replacing Shatty's production, but this, IMO, won't continue.

Offensively: Shattenkirk > Parayko > Pietrangelo
Defensively: Pietrangelo >> Shattenkirk > Parayko
Neutral Zone: Pietrangelo = Shattenkirk > Parayko

I'll be back with the advanced stats, but would prefer someone that knows better to do the work

Edit: http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rat...amid=26&type=individual&sort=IPP&sortdir=DESC

Parayko leads our defensemen in every advanced stat 5-on-5.

He also is 3rd in icetime, just passing Gunnar.

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/teamstats.php?disp=1&db=201516&sit=5v5&sort=OZPCT&sortdir=DESC

The team as a whole spends more time in the offensive zone than most teams in the league.

 

[RR10*]

Parayko leads our defensemen in every advanced stat 5-on-5.

This should do it.

 

[RR10*]

You can't prove him wrong. All you have to do is say that and you win the argument.

You can't prove me wrong because I'm right.

 

[stl76]

You can't prove me wrong because I'm right.

Give it a rest

 

[Vincenzo Arelliti]

This should do it.

 

[Bluesnatic27]

I'm just so pleased with how Pietrangelo has looked so far. He is just a wizard in the defensive zone, but he's also proving to be much more dangerous on offense as well. He seems to always be jumping into the play when it's developing and seems to start quite a few plays as well. I really like how he's using his intelligence and skill in the offensive zone. I even think his shot, while not particularly great, looks better this year as well.

After such a horrid start last year, it's great to see his game so fluid again.

 

[RR10*]

Instead of you being happy for Parayko, you are being mad for him outplaying your "elite" idol.

On the other hand. I never said Parayko is a better defender. Not yet at least. But he's already a more difference maker than Pietro ever was. Good night and kisses.