Pick a duo for 5 years - Gretzky/Hasek or Lemieux/Orr

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Ovechkin actually has an argument over Crosby because of better peak seasons, way more individual hardware, being the GOAT goal scorer, etc. Lemieux's "arguments" over Gretzky are your sad "what ifs". Big difference.

Ovechkin has no argument and as much as you wish it’s not really a discussion in the hockey world

 

[McVespa99]

No one is downplaying Hasek. Lemieux and Orr are arguably top 2 best players of all time.

No they are not. That is a rediculous statement.

 

[KIRK]

Health tips the scale for me.

 

[thadd]

The best hockey player of all time and the only goalie to ever win back to back harts is kinda hard to vote against.

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

Ovechkin has no argument and as much as you wish it’s not really a discussion in the hockey world

So let's get this right

Ovechkin has more goals (career and single season), more pts (career), more harts, more rockets, more awards (18-11), more top 10 hart finishes (assuming he's top 10 this year), better peak seasons... But he has "no argument" over Crosby?

Gretzky has more goals (career and single season, regular season and playoffs), more assists (career and single season, regular season and playoffs), more pts (career and single season, regular season and playoffs), better PPG (regular season and playoffs), more harts/lindsays/rosses/rockets, more awards (31-18 lol), better pt, goal, assist, PPG finishes, more cups, beat Lemieux to every pt and goal milestone, has a better PPG at every stage of their careers, has every record in the book.. But Lemieux "has an argument" over Gretzky?

Everyone has their favourites but your bias is just embarrassing.

 

[wetcoast]

No one is downplaying Hasek per se - just downplaying him in relation to Gretzky/Lemieux/Orr we are, who are the 3 best players of all time, and arguably own all of the best playoff runs of all-time among the 3 of them.

Hasek was fantastic in 1999 - but it's his only such run, and they did fall short of the cup in the end. And it's nowhere near the top goalie playoff run ever - not even top 5, probably not top 10. Roy has better runs as does Giguere - and that's in surrounding years alone.

It's kind of funny as you are the OP and asked to consider everything but ow you are putting Hasek down for not leading the Sabers to a SC?

 

[bobholly39]

It's kind of funny as you are the OP and asked to consider everything but ow you are putting Hasek down for not leading the Sabers to a SC?

I didn't realize saying a player wasn't as good as Orr/Lemieux was putting them down lol. In that case - feel free to consider that I also voluntarily put every hockey player in history down, minus Wayne Gretzky.

 

[wetcoast]

I didn't realize saying a player wasn't as good as Orr/Lemieux was putting them down lol. In that case - feel free to consider that I also voluntarily put every hockey player in history down, minus Wayne Gretzky.

Not according to your OP though were you ask is to take health and injuries into consideration.

Mario in his 5 year peak plays in only 69.5% of all of his game

The elite play for Hasek has already been given upthread.

 

[bobholly39]

Not according to your OP though were you ask is to take health and injuries into consideration.

Mario in his 5 year peak plays in only 69.5% of all of his game

The elite play for Hasek has already been given upthread.

Yeah and Hasek as a goalie doesn't play every game, and pretty sure he only played ~73% of games in his best 5 years. Very comparable.

Mostly - the discussion was about who was more valuable in playoffs in what you quoted. Injuries weren't really a factor for playoffs, just regular season. Lemieux > Hasek for playoffs

 

[Fig]

This poll is really interesting.

Gretzky and Hasek are basically maxed out versions. It seems unlikely they'd improve their historical totals further, whereas Lemieux and Orr have synergies to improve their historical totals.

If we bring modern medicine into the equation due to the any era aspect, Orr and Lemieux might actually improve from that alone, let alone playing with one another. That's kinda crazy. Let's not forget that Lemieux for a while could barely tie his own skates.

Gretzky/Hasek is the safer bet, but I went with Lemieux/Orr as it's a more interesting gamble.

 

[LakeLivin]

Yeah and Hasek as a goalie doesn't play every game, and pretty sure he only played ~73% of games in his best 5 years. Very comparable.

Mostly - the discussion was about who was more valuable in playoffs in what you quoted. Injuries weren't really a factor for playoffs, just regular season. Lemieux > Hasek for playoffs

Lol. you're looking at apples and oranges and saying they're very comparable? I suspect that a goalie playing 73% of his team's games over a long period of time is near the top of the league; a forward playing 69% of his team's games isn't.

Look, I'm not arguing that your perspective that Lemieux/Orr are more valuable is wrong. That's an opinion, and it's just as valid as someone else's opinion that Gretzky/Hasek would be more valuable. Both are speculative and we'll never have a definitive answer. I'm just commenting on flaws in some of the logic you use to justify your opinion.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Lol top 10 hart?

 

[MrazeksVengeance]

This poll is really interesting.

Gretzky and Hasek are basically maxed out versions. It seems unlikely they'd improve their historical totals further, whereas Lemieux and Orr have synergies to improve their historical totals.

If we bring modern medicine into the equation due to the any era aspect, Orr and Lemieux might actually improve from that alone, let alone playing with one another. That's kinda crazy. Let's not forget that Lemieux for a while could barely tie his own skates.

Gretzky/Hasek is the safer bet, but I went with Lemieux/Orr as it's a more interesting gamble.

If you look at it that way... That is an opinion I can get by.

 

[Fig]

If you look at it that way... That is an opinion I can get by.

I don't necessarily think it was the intention of OP to evaluate it that way. But because it's a way to evaluate the pairings within the confines of how OP laid out the theoretical, it gets pretty interesting IMO and brings the two evaluations closer IMO.

 

[biturbo19]

I mean, it's hard to vote against the best forward in NHL history, and the best goaltender as well...But i feel like in today's game, Hasek wouldn't be quite the same kind of equalizer. His success was incredible and undeniable...but even a prime Hasek, i'm just not sure that style would match up as well with the way the game is played right now. Goaltending in general today...is just such a "get hot at the right moment" sort of thing. It'd be hard to invest like that, in the position...with the other option available.

5 years of prime Lemieux and prime puck moving Orr who was built for today's game on the blueline, long before it was even a thing...is just too much for me to pass up.